New King of the Mountain

Bruce B said:

I guess to really find out how much the TT contributes to the sound, listen with headphones and record output with no speakers playing. That's what I do. Certainly would negate the need for exotic isolation devices!

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PeterA said:

Bruce, I don't think this would be the case. Certainly, eliminating vibrations from the speakers helps, but the Vibraplanes and other isolation platforms also prevent floor born vibrations from traveling up from the earth through the buildings structure. These devices were originally designed to isolate things like electron microscopes from vibrations like trucks driving by, and earth movement. There are no speaker systems blasting music in those lab environments.

I have found serious vibration isolation to be indispensable to achieving great sound. Rockitman would probably also agree.

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MylesBAstor said:

Are you sure Bruce? We're talking vibrations on the order of <0.5 Hz. I can tell you that even with the best isolation, the Biology dept. at Columbia had huge issues with low frequencies from trucks, etc. affecting their EM scopes a while back.

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MylesBAstor said:

OK, living in the boonies has its advantages Just that those low frequency waves travel for miles and miles eg. how we detect seismic events

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rockitman said:

Home ventilation systems, duct work generate vibration. Sounds like Bruce has it handled quite well especially since there will be no music acoustic noise/feedback in the room (headphones).

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Bruce B said:

Ductwork has baffles in the studio area and totally separate trunks from the rest of the house. We spent a lot of $$ on the infrastructure.

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Bruce B said:

My floor is decoupled from the slab through the Kinetics Noise Control KIP system and Green Glue elastomer , so I seriously doubt that any trucks or "earth borne" vibration is getting to my TT.

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PeterA said:

I sounds like you have well isolated your environment, Bruce. You made the point that if listening to headphones, one would not need exotic isolation platforms. I contend that that is not the case because of environmental vibrations which you have recognized and attempted to deal with in your studio setting, regardless of your use of headphones. For others, earth vibrations, trucks, HVAC, even washing machines etc. cause issues for turntables. Simply turning off the speakers will not solve them.

And even the bigger SME tables and the TechDas with well designed isolation systems, benefit from being placed on isolation platforms.

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ddk said:

Then there's the internal vibrations and resonance of the tt that's not airborne and needs to be dealt with.

AF1 and SME 30 are totally different designs and require very different types of isolation, which could also vary depending on their environment.

david

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PeterA said:

David, Perhaps I don't follow your point. Your comment above is in response to my comment "And even the bigger SME tables and the TechDas with well designed isolation systems, benefit from being placed on isolation platforms." I am referring to platforms intended to isolate the turntable from external vibrations traveling up the rack. Are you referring to external isolation or isolation solutions internal to the turntable system?

If you are referring to the former, I agree that the AF1 and SME30 are different designs, but they do have some similarities and both will benefit by being placed on isolation platforms. They are similar in that they are both belt drives, they both have built in suspensions, each motor is separated from the platter/arm by isolation of some type, they both have record clamp systems and for the most part, owners of each use pivoting arms.

Rockitman uses a Herzan active isolation platform for his AF1 and I use a Vibraplane isolation platform for my SME 30/12. We both have reported very positive results after placing our respective turntables on these isolation platforms.

Are you suggesting that one is more suited for the Herzan and the other more suited for the Vibraplane, or are you making a different point?

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ddk said:

While your bench style viblraplane works great with the SME, high mass designs like Micros and AF1 need and will benefit from very high mass platforms, in their case air support can have a negative impact if not tailored specifically to them. In the case of AF1 which already has oil/air bladders built in, doubling it up with vibraplane will yield a negative instead of a positive. My point, when it comes to support there's no one size fit all and at this level one has to experiment with different options to find the right solution for each type of tt. The only universal I've come to believe in is mass, its almost always good.

david

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PeterA said:

Hi David, Thanks for the clarification. It makes sense. Fellow member Syntax has a Micro (5000? with flywheel) and he reports superb results with his Vibraplane. I don't know if it is preloaded with a ballast plate or not. Perhaps his Micro behaves differently that the TechDas AF1, because it does not have the air/oil bladders.

Rockitman has stacked isolation: The AF1 air/oil bladders, the HRS platform, the Herzan active isolation platform, an Adona rack. He reports excellent results.

My SME 30/12 is on a 136 lb steel ballast plate and then the 150 lb Vibraplane platform, for a total system weight of 400 lbs. I completely agree with you about the importance of mass. My solution makes it possible to also isolate the motor controller from the rack further increasing performance.

I think that perhaps the SME would benefit from the Herzan, but based on what you write, the AF1 would not benefit from the Vibraplane. Thank you for explaining this.

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