Martin-Logan Owners

[Gregadd]

"...I'm interested in what VTL amp you tried? Chesky had, and I don't remember the model, a 300 wpc VTL (at the time D. Manley was with the company) and it couldn't drive the CLS IIs. The sound really lacked dynamics. "

I never heard it. 5 grand was a little rich for my blood. All the tas writers upgraded from their 60wpc ARC to the VTL. you may recall it was Luke who proved tubes could do high power and bass.

For some reason I never heard the VTL except at shows. no dealer in my area would touch it. BTW the CLS II was a bad speaker.

 

[Wardsweb]

I ran original CLS for over a decade before going to Prodigy. Here are a couple pics.

Absolutely incredible imaging and soundstage. A difficult load and placement is critial but when dialed in they are sublime.

Add dynamic range to a CLS and you get Prodigy. The open airy sound I love with speed and a bottom end to make it live.

 

[Wardsweb]

Had the Prodigys and loved them! Recognize the cable box in the picture but what are the amps?

They are Ampzilla 2000 by Spread Spectrum Technologies (James Bongiorno).

 

[kach22i]

Wardsweb, glad you could make it.

Did you see pictures of your system posted in the Danley Subwoofer thread?

Seems to me there is a CLS/CLX/Prodigy swap of sorts going on. Not one better than the other, just slightly different flavors of goodness.

Does that sound like an accurate analogy?

 

[Wardsweb]

Wardsweb, glad you could make it.

Did you see pictures of your system posted in the Danley Subwoofer thread?

Seems to me there is a CLS/CLX/Prodigy swap of sorts going on. Not one better than the other, just slightly different flavors of goodness.

Does that sound like an accurate analogy?

Good, better or best they are all an individuals subjective conclusion. IMHO I feel each of these have their strong and weak points for my listening. It isn't black or white but grey. Electrostats by desgin will give me the "sound" that is musical to my ears. They each can add measures of speed, detail, tonality, and an open airy sound stage. I would say taking each point on a weight scale to determine what makes the most sense with cost only being part of the equation. If 80% of your speaker budget gets you 90% of perfection, is it worth doubling your budget to get an additional 5% of perfection? After that it is an exponential scale.

 

[roberto]

Hola...I am a user of CLS since 87 and now have the CLSIIz. These speakers, with all respect, belongs to a category, I could say, like Opera: you love Opera or you hate Opera. They are not for everybody, and also, needs tons of time for setting them right and make them to "sing". They are bass shy for the liking of most people, but I have never listen a double bass so articulate and so right through them, having the player at the stage with the other musicians, and not next to me in some notes. My first amplifier was a Conrad Johnson model Premier 4. My amplifier now is an Audio Research model VT-100MKII, (modified) and previously had a Jadis, then a Sonic Frontiers Power two...as you can see, I love tube sound, even that I know that they are not as precise as SS is at low frequency. I had tried a lot of super good speakers that offers more dynamics and perhaps more bigger sound, but I ended with these...I had the luck to had a father that supported me with my love and passion for music. When I was a kid, I studied classical guitar for over 14 years with a teacher that was a direct pupil of Agustin Barrios Mangore. On today days, you can graduate playing Barrios as part of your repertory, as a classical guitar player. Studied electronics from College, so I can understand the topology of the circuit design on most high end brands, which I did service them at my workshop, so I know the guts of Levinson, Conrad Johnson, Carver, Classe, Bryston, Beveridge, Krell, Jadis, VTL, and many others...back of what I was saying, I use a guitar as a sound reference...of course the guitar does not has the lows of an organ or the highs of a cymbal, but it is the musical instrument that I know very well...OTOH the other musical instrument that I use is a piano. When I listen my system, I am in heaven...and of course I do know that out there are many better systems than mine...my advise is: trust your ears! and listen the music a moderate level...so you do not get any ear fatigue and can spend more time listening more music. Right now I am trying to do a 5.1...just started to figure out the levels...I am using a Perreaux for center amplifier, bridge mode, the center is a ML model Motif, and the rears are Sonus Faber model Amator with a McIntosch amplifier model 2105. This amp was one of my dad's amplifier. Also I have a sub, very small from ML (Grotto i) and sometimes I do like what I listen...but sometimes I rather be with 2 channel only. Still have my Goldmund Studio turtable, a Linn LP-12 with the unitrack arm, and an Oracle with a Syrex tonearm. The cartridge that I am using is a Sumiko S...the preamplifer is a Mark Levinson ML-6A...but now I am playing with my Oppo blu ray...5.1...now I am enjoying digital very much...happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[kach22i]

I use a guitar as a sound reference......OTOH the other musical instrument that I use is a piano.

Something about Martin Logan just gets those two things right. Even back 15 years ago when my entry level hybrid stat the Aerius was matched up to a 100w Rotel amp with the signal being stifled by a Carver CT-17 preamp it still got acoustic guitar and piano right.

 

[mullard88]

Hi Roberto,

I agree with your advice. About twenty years ago, I had a pair of Martin Logan Sequel. I used a pair of Spectral DMA 50 (bridged to mono) to drive them. I recall that these speakers needed lots of room (even more than the magnepan IIIa). I remember that except for the bass, the music that comes out of them was really enjoyable. Like you, I listen at moderate levels.

 

[roberto]

hola...Martin Logan is difficult to make them to sing, but when you got it right, you will be in heaven. I know, they are not perfect, but the minor flaws that you can find, versus others costing twice or more, makes me feel right too. With patience, and tons of hours listening, moving them only one inch to left or right, or to back or front, makes them to provide to the listener a very different audio stage. Sometimes it is difficult to choose where do you want to sit, at front row or at the "Butaca" far bottom of the room. Just moving them a little bit, you change the whole stage...and when you say, there...you start to enjoy the musician(s) playing for you...not just listening to the sound. The musician feeling is more evident, and also you can listen the band, in other words, the guitar player, or the keyboard player, the drummer, the bass player etc and this is what I liked most of ML...how easy is to get the musician heart! and many times, you start to say the names of the musicians playing with the main artist, without knowing the list of the players...and you pick them without making a big effort...this makes me be more involved with the music and sound and forget that I am listening a sound system...trust your ears...happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[kach22i]

Words of wisdom, thanks Roberto.

 

[roberto]

Thanks, I wish that I could speak more fluent English, and better spelling...

Regarding to our beloved hobby, listening to the musician(s) in our room, the most important tool that I can recommend is: feet moving. If your foot is tapping with the clock of the music, then you are O.K. This means that you are enjoying what you are listening!...and are connected in some way with the musician(s) no matter the kind of music that you are playing. Yes, with classical music too. This is a very good sign. Try to visualize the size of the instruments, and play the music a moderate level. This also will make us to be listening hours without any ear fatigue. Listen frequently unplugged music, like a live piano or a guitar...this will provide a guide of how loud we should listen. Also, the full, richness and dynamics of the instrument, and the interpretation of the musician at any work. Try to remember the loudness of the instrument in that particular room, and try to emulate the same level...not more. This is my reference ...and believe me, it works great!...happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[Steve Williams]

Roberto your English is perfect

I agree completely. If your toes are tapping and your head bobbing, then you are enjoying the music.

 

[roberto]

Roberto your English is perfect

I agree completely. If your toes are tapping and your head bobbing, then you are enjoying the music.

Hola Steve, and yes!, sometimes we do not get the clues or signals of how nice our system is doing. If you have a nice smile, that is another good sign. Keep playing and turning!...happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[Steve Williams]

Hola Steve, and yes!, sometimes we do not get the clues or signals of how nice our system is doing. If you have a nice smile, that is another good sign. Keep playing and turning!...happy listening,
Roberto.

Roberto, what amazes me is that some nights of listening can be an aural magical experience yet listen to the same music on another night and our juices won't be flowing.

 

[roberto]

Roberto, what amazes me is that some nights of listening can be an aural magical experience yet listen to the same music on another night and our juices won't be flowing.

Yes, and it is a human behavior...we are not in the mood for that particular type of music, when this happens, what I do, is I start to listen to a solo artist, like piano or guitar, and from there, I start to search inside of me, what really is what I want to listen...and suddenly, I get the feeling inside of me, and here I go...try it, perhaps it could work for you too. I wish you a very happy listening!,
Warm regards from Costa Rica,
Roberto.

 

[kach22i]

Roberto, what amazes me is that some nights of listening can be an aural magical experience yet listen to the same music on another night and our juices won't be flowing.

I think it has something to do with the power-grid.

Started a new topic in the "General Audio" section.

 

[roberto]

I think it has something to do with the power-grid.

Started a new topic in the "General Audio" section.

Hola kach22i, well, I think that the power-grid has to do regarding why at late night usually the sound is cleaner...but this is true when you do not have any line filter like Panamax or similar. But the thing here is that sometimes you do not like what you are listening, but you did perhaps yesterday, same system, same music and same hour...and I believe it is due to humans...our day was not equal to yesterday...and make us be different in liking...so you have to start to like what you are listening, and the best way is to start with easy listening music, easy way to get back to our liking...this is my thinking, and could be wrong...but it works for me, perhaps could work for you too...happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[LesAuber]

Not a ML owner but the CLS is one speaker I wish I'd had the proper room to have owned. In the right setup simply magical.

 

[mullard88]

Hola Roberto,

Many years ago, I reserved a CLS. Unfortunately, the dealer sold the CLS to someone else and tried to push me to buy a pair of Aerius. Maybe one of these days I may be fortunate enough to buy a mint pair of CLS and hopefully be able to experience the magic you talk about as "getting the musician heart".

Please keep posting, I share a lot of the same experiences that you have had and I agree with all the practical senses you bring to our hobby.

I think I will visit the Martin Logan website now.

 

[roberto]

Hola LesAuber and mullard88. Thanks for your kind words. Yes, I do like a lot ML. Not every model, but I do like more the new type of panel. It brings more dynamics and also has extended highs, making them more user friendly. It is a shame that the new CLX are so expensive but I assure you that they worth every penny. It is the best sound (to my liking), full of a lot of harmonic texture and super natural, like the human voice. To me, it is very difficult to reproduce it. They are not too good at lower bass, and you can see that at their specs, which are rated starting at 56Hz. At 30Hz you still have info, but a sub is a must. I have an internal debate of how many low frequency I must have in my system, judging this by specs...but when I listen to music, too many low frequency makes me feel that the bass player is next to me, and not at the stage. Only just a few musical instruments reproduce low frequency well, this is a Church organ, the harp, big drums,...a big piano concert (Steinway, Bosendorfer, Grand Piano, Yamaha, etc,) the last note is an A=27.5 Hz, and this note usually is never played, why? because the piano has a lot of difficult to reproduce it...we get a not clear sound, and our ears can not listen very good low frequency. So all what I need is a good clean bass, enough to have the bass player at the stage, and when i got this, I look at my Depth I sub volume knob, ant it is at around 2.5 and sometimes when I want to show off, the level I have it at 3.5!...(that would be around 9 if I use a clock, pointing to 7, volume know is all the way down)...so if you see, I am not a too heavy bass liker. Back to the CLX, I had one pair for 5 days with my system, and I can not forget what I did get...my ears are still missing them...the quality of the cymbals, as an example with Steve Daves track No 2, at the CD quality of silence, is one of the best cymbals recording that I have...and they were life like cymbals, having the musicians in front of me, with tons of expression and space...now back to my CLS, these babes are one of a kind. They are very difficult to drive, and perhaps, when they came out, the electronics were not too good as it is on these days. They love tubes, o yes, you can drive them with SS too. They like Aragon, Classe, Mark Levinson, Carver, Pass Labs, Jeff Rowland, Spectral, Blue Circle, etc...just to name a few...there are very good electronics out there!...so my advise is: Trust your ears! listen to live music unplugged, and move your speakers back to front, left to right, and search for that live image that your brain tells you to have...happy listening,
Roberto.