I said I would never buy another Turntable...Argh !!!

[microstrip]

I think people are overlooking the comment of David about the proper dimensions of each part of the turntable - it illustrates how critical and well though the AS really is. IMHO changing any of David wishes risks the project outcome.

 

[Ron Resnick]

A fair point, Francisco.

Christian and Mike have a lot of experience with Herzan and they want to have that isolation option from the get-go. I am more inclined not to tinker with David's formula, but I want to preserve the option of adding an isolation platform easily in the future if I choose to. And David's formula does include, presently, hard industrial rubber washers separating the stand from the tabletop.

 

[rockitman]

Building a custom rack first with the thought of trying active isolation later presented a problem to me. If I went the try the standard (non active) rack first....it would have to be boxed up, crated and shipped freight back to Herzan for the modifications needed for AVI module implementation (not to mention moving the TT off of it). No way to demo. You are committed either way. That is why I took the slight risk of getting the whole enchilada now. I have a high degree of confidence the AS2000 performance will be elevated when compared to using it on a solid rack.

The top plate issue has finally been resolved. 1/2" carbon steel plate plasma cut. It will also be finished via a blanching process and powder coated clear matte. Gloss is an option as is color matching the stand's powder coat choice. They advised against unfinished steel for corrosion reasons. weight 25x36...136lbs

here is my quote and detail on the steel top plate and that does not include the blanch process ($250).

OPTION 1: Powder Coated Steel Top Plate

Additional cost for 0.5” thick powdercoated steel top plate: $385
Increase in price is due to:
Increasing the thickness of the steel plate (from 3/8” to 0.5”)
Increased complexity in mounting modules to plate
Requirement to plasma cut plate to size to prevent bowing/uneven surface flatness
Approximate weight of top plate: 128 Lbs
Additional load bearing springs required: $200
QTY 8 springs added at $25 per spring
10 Kg of additional load capacity per spring
Cutting aluminum plate to the current base shelf size: $85
Cost a result of 1 hour labor required to cut down plate using plasma cutter
This cost can be negated if we extend the plate to the entire profile of the frame, meaning there is no recessed area for the base shelf.
Total Cost for Option 1: $670

 

[Folsom]

Looks nice!

 

[Stacore]

After going back and forth I finally settled on the best top plate material for this TT application...1/2” plain old carbon steel. Aluminum and Stainless are bad choices from a high frequency resonance ring standpoint from what I understand.

And what is the AS2000 made of if not a secret? The original AS seems SS.

Cheers

 

[microstrip]

And what is the AS2000 made of if not a secret? The original AS seems SS.

Cheers

Stainless steel. You have that information in an AudioNirvana thread https://www.audionirvana.org/forum/the-audio-vault/analog-playback/turntables/65787-i-said-i-would-never-buy-another-turntable-argh/page2

 

[Stacore]

Stainless steel. You have that information in an AudioNirvana thread https://www.audionirvana.org/forum/the-audio-vault/analog-playback/turntables/65787-i-said-i-would-never-buy-another-turntable-argh/page2

Ok, thank you. What got my attention is an interesting reasoning of not using ss to support a ss made table.

Cheers
Jarek

 

[rockitman]

perhaps dis-similar resonant frequency materials are preferred ? David may chime in...

Ok, thank you. What got my attention is an interesting reasoning of not using ss to support a ss made table.

Cheers
Jarek

 

[Stacore]

Depends on what one wants to achieve. Not sure how dissimilar black.and stainless steels are though. If cost were not object why not e.g. pure copper /led would be even better if not the health issues/. Just a thought.

Cheers,
Jarek

 

[ddk]

Ok, thank you. What got my attention is an interesting reasoning of not using ss to support a ss made table.

Cheers
Jarek

Hi Jareck,
My reasoning is simple, it’s not needed & makes no difference to the sound so why waste money, it’s also easier to spray paint powder coated steel if needed than dealing with stainless. I don’t like aluminum because it’s light and has obvious resonance that add color to the upper bass, lower mid and the worst IMO are sandwich shelves made with aluminum trying to tame it with some kind of dampening material.
david

 

[rockitman]

The final approved schematic. Since the original 3/4" aluminum top plate was already cut, we just used it for the shelf material on my internal shelf.
Top plate is 1/2" carbon steel, clear matte powder coat. Fortunately the 135lb top plate unbolts to lighten the load when moving it.

 

[Stacore]

Got the point David. Thank you for the explanations. We also avoid alu. Its not easy to damp. But Im v much tempted to try pure copper in the future.

Cheers,
Jarek

 

[ddk]

The feet have have no real impact on sound in this application, personally I’d opt for the wheels if they don’t interfere with the operation of the work table.

david

This is how they were explained to me:



I was originally offered the combo feet for my two other Herzan racks. Since I won't be moving the rack around and since I have carpet over my basement floor, I will most likely use this option from Herzan (pic below). A simple swivel hat type footer that raises and lowers using the nut on the footer and a wrench.

 

[Ron Resnick]

That looks great, Christian!

What is the color of the natural carbon steel? Black or close to black?

So the clear matte powder coat will put a clear finish on the natural carbon steel color?

 

[rockitman]

That looks great, Christian!

What is the color of the natural carbon steel? Black or close to black?

So the clear matte powder coat will put a clear finish on the natural carbon steel color?

Yes...the raw steel must be blanched if you go for clear coat vs an opaque color. I can't answer the color question of the raw steel pre-blanch.

I will find out more about the caster wheel/footer they are supplying for the table.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Thank you, Christian.

Wait a second -- so is anyone arguing that stainless steel has some sonic disadvantage versus carbon steel? Or is the case against stainless steel purely based on cost?

 

[Ron Resnick]

The feet have have no real impact on sound in this application, personally I’d opt for the wheels if they don’t interfere with the operation of the work table.

david

David, are going soft or something?

You are now blessing a non-solid stand feet to floor interface?

 

[rockitman]

David, are going soft or something?

You are now blessing a non-solid stand feet to floor interface?

the wheels retract/rise off the ground as the solid footer is lowered/leveled. I asked Reid for more info, pics, schematics, ect.

 

[rockitman]

Thank you, Christian.

Wait a second -- so is anyone arguing that stainless steel has some sonic disadvantage versus carbon steel? Or is the case against stainless steel purely based on cost?

the stainless option almost doubles the cost of the carbon steel and is heavier by about 35-40lbs.
here is my stainless option quote.
OPTION 2: Stainless Steel Top Plate

Additional cost for 0.5” thick stainless steel top plate: $895
Increase in price is due to:
Increased material cost for stainless steel
Even greater complexity in mounting modules to plate
Requirement to plasma cut plate to size to prevent bowing/uneven surface flatness
Approximate weight of top plate: 160 Lbs
Additional load bearing springs: $200
QTY 8 springs added at $25 per spring
10 Kg of additional load capacity per spring
Cutting aluminum plate to the current base shelf size: $85
Cost a result of 1 hour labor required to cut down plate using plasma cutter
This cost can be negated if we extend the plate to the entire profile of the frame, meaning there is no recessed area for the base shelf.
Total Cost for Option 2: $1,180

 

[Ron Resnick]

I'm beginning to think the traditional, offset castors make sense for the turntable stand. It appears that my 3" square box leg specification makes the stand quite heavy. In my case, that means, to make all three stands (two stands with a top to accomodate a TS-140 and one stand with a top to accomodate a TS-300) the same, I would get castors on all three stands.