Can someone go to one source format and be happy?

[Al M.]

Hi

Came to realize that the OP simply display our OCD.. Our collective OCD. If you care about music then you just listen to whatever provide you with the kind of music you like. We OTOH are in a perpetual FOMO-state (Fear Of Missing Out for the non-millenial among us ). OCD by any other name.
Speaking strictly for myself... I am training myself not to dwell too much on the medium but on the music .. So I am (slowly) accepting, Spotify...
I listen however to Tidal and , Files and very rarely Vinyl depending on mood and on availability. Most often I succumb to the OCD and it has to be CD/Files (ripped CDs) or Tidal...

I have avoided FOMO by resisting SACD from the beginning, knowing that it would be a doomed format in the sense that it would always carry just a tiny amount of all the music available. In retrospect I am so glad I did not put any effort, time and money into the format. Now SOTA CD replay apparently beats SACD on most other playback gear, so there isn't even a compelling sound quality argument to be made anymore (if you're into multi-channel that's a different issue).

I have avoided FOMO also by resisting streaming. But then it's easy for me since I am the kind of listener that rather goes deep than broad. In my recent 2-week stay vacation I listened at least 10 times to the entire double CD of Richard Barrett's music for cello & electronics. Challenging but incredibly rewarding music. The repeated listening was more than worth it, new discoveries with every listen. Exciting.

And I have avoided FOMO by not constantly changing to the newest gear.

 

[microstrip]

(...) Given that CD can sound excellent, beyond our wildest dreams decades ago, makes that even more so. And implementation trumps format. Redbook on the best digital playback will handily beat hi-res on lesser players anytime.

Yes, CD can sound excellent, beyond my wildest dreams of a few months ago, particularly in the DCS Vivaldi after a few weeks burn-in. But, IMHO, systematically, the SACD layer sounds better than the CD layer in dual layer discs. I am addressing labels such as Harmonia Mundi and Aliavox, that as far as I could know, do not re-master their recordings for issuing DSDs.

 

[FrantzM]

I have avoided FOMO by resisting SACD from the beginning, knowing that it would be a doomed format in the sense that it would always carry just a tiny amount of all the music available. In retrospect I am so glad I did not put any effort, time and money into the format. Now SOTA CD replay apparently beats SACD on most other playback gear, so there isn't even a compelling sound quality argument to be made anymore (if you're into multi-channel that's a different issue).

I have avoided FOMO also by resisting streaming. But then it's easy for me since I am the kind of listener that rather goes deep than broad. In my recent 2-week stay vacation I listened at least 10 times to the entire double CD of Richard Barrett's music for cello & electronics. Challenging but incredibly rewarding music. The repeated listening was more than worth it, new discoveries with every listen. Exciting.

And I have avoided FOMO by not constantly changing to the newest gear.

AL

here is the rub. You mentioned Richard Barrett.. I know nothing about him but you being a fellow music lover ( and audiophile , lest you forget it ) I am now interested.. What to do? Buy his CD and return it, if I don't like it? Challenge my Ethics ... Now I will simply go to Tidal and check him out... I will listen, but prepared by your mentioning "challenging" and I will discover similar musicians/composers.. Not on Tidal? Likely on Spotify. In any case I am certain to discover a world of music: With Streaming you get Deep and Broad .. If you are in the mood for superficial.. you are served well too ..

Resistance is futile.. Let yourself be assimilated

 

[microstrip]

AL

here is the rub. You mentioned Richard Barrett.. I know nothing about him but you being a fellow music lover ( and audiophile , lest you forget it ) I am now interested.. What to do? Buy his CD and return it, if I don't like it? Challenge my Ethics ... Now I will simply go to Tidal and check him out... I will listen, but prepared by your mentioning "challenging" and I will discover similar musicians/composers.. Not on Tidal? Likely on Spotify. In any case I am certain to discover a world of music: With Streaming you get Deep and Broad .. If you are in the mood for superficial.. you are served well too ..

Resistance is futile.. Let yourself be assimilated

Well, I do it differently. I checked with google, found the site http://richardbarrettmusic.com/CDs.html and found plenty of CDs.

Also checked Richard Barret (composer) wikipedia article. I read about the composer and found long descriptive lists of his works and recordings. I just took note of a few that seemed to interest me and will carry some research on them. While looking for them I found an interesting site selling CDs http://www.emanemdisc.com/emanem.html COMPACT DISCS OF UNADULTERATED NEW MUSIC FOR PEOPLE WHO LIKE NEW MUSIC UNADULTERATED. I will go on with my research, perhaps I will ask a few details to Al. M, and if I find interest enough I will then probablybuy one CD to listen. If I do not enjoy it, no problem - I will not cry for a few euros. It is part of the game!

BTW, I also checked Tidal, that as I expected have a minimal number of Richard Barrett recordings. If I had only listened briefly to random tracks, as I did, without any reading or selection, I can assure you I would have immediately discarded it.

Sorry, I really do not want to be assimilated ...

 

[Al M.]

AL

here is the rub. You mentioned Richard Barrett.. I know nothing about him but you being a fellow music lover ( and audiophile , lest you forget it ) I am now interested.. What to do? Buy his CD and return it, if I don't like it? Challenge my Ethics ... Now I will simply go to Tidal and check him out... I will listen, but prepared by your mentioning "challenging" and I will discover similar musicians/composers.. Not on Tidal? Likely on Spotify. In any case I am certain to discover a world of music: With Streaming you get Deep and Broad .. If you are in the mood for superficial.. you are served well too ..

Resistance is futile.. Let yourself be assimilated

I see your point. However, resistance is not futile. I know myself, trust me Frantz. (Or, I could send you a 'yuuge' "believe me" , but then we know, this would not be believable.)

Glad you are interested in Barrett.

 

[Al M.]

Yes, CD can sound excellent, beyond my wildest dreams of a few months ago, particularly in the DCS Vivaldi after a few weeks burn-in. But, IMHO, systematically, the SACD layer sounds better than the CD layer in dual layer discs. I am addressing labels such as Harmonia Mundi and Aliavox, that as far as I could know, do not re-master their recordings for issuing DSDs.

Wow, you have a dCS Vivaldi stack now? Congratulations!

 

[bonzo75]

Hi

Came to realize that the OP simply display our OCD.. Our collective OCD. If you care about music then you just listen to whatever provide you with the kind of music you like. We OTOH are in a perpetual FOMO-state (Fear Of Missing Out for the non-millenial among us ). OCD by any other name.
Speaking strictly for myself... I am training myself not to dwell too much on the medium but on the music .. So I am (slowly) accepting, Spotify...
I listen however to Tidal and , Files and very rarely Vinyl depending on mood and on availability. Most often I succumb to the OCD and it has to be CD/Files (ripped CDs) or Tidal...

I don’t there is a FOMO.

There is a Curiosity of New Things, which I don’t want to abbreviate

I am not on this forum to listen to music. I have 4 classical concerts this week (already did two, Verdi requiem and Debussy La Mer/Haydn Trumpet Concerto./Shostakovich 5th).

I am here because I am a gear geek (GG), and want to learn what reproduced music the best and/or the difference between gears. So, can we live with single format – yes, we can live with Bose Audio too. Or Oppo. Anything above that is a gear hobby, just depends how big a geek you are. Plus, for classical, MCH classical and vinyl has a lot of material that is better than 2-ch digital classical. Which is why one could live with one format, but if he had the money and space and was a geek, would need three formats to enjoy it all.

Anyone active on this forum has gone beyond what is required to be happy with, and has signed up for the collective OCD. Whether he likes to admit it or not. How far the OCD takes him - to 5 exotic TTs, multiple formats including multiple versions of each format (3 tape decks, for instance), Masterbuilt cables, 13.4 MCH, etc, is a different and personal matter.


Ideally, I would stream Tidal to find new music, and then for my favorites buy the best LPs or digital, based on a case by case basis.

 

[YashN]

To me as a music lover there is no controversy: Redbook carries many millions of titles, hi-res a few thousand or a few ten thousand at best. Game, set, match. High-res is irrelevant.

Given that CD can sound excellent, beyond our wildest dreams decades ago, makes that even more so. And implementation trumps format. Redbook on the best digital playback will handily beat hi-res on lesser players anytime.

These are a couple of odd assertions.

First, what good is a million titles if they're mostly overcompressed crap as a counter example? Not much.

Yes, CD on state-of-the art gear can sound very good, but Hi-Res on state-of-the art gear will still trump it.

 

[YashN]

Yes, CD can sound excellent, beyond my wildest dreams of a few months ago, particularly in the DCS Vivaldi after a few weeks burn-in. But, IMHO, systematically, the SACD layer sounds better than the CD layer in dual layer discs.

SACD contains DSD64 and that usually should sound better, so it should come as no surprise. There do exist a couple of cases which can show the opposite though: first, when the SACD output is somehow re-converted to PCM in the chain (that's not ideal with DSD content). Secondly, some examples of labels using a normal resolution PCM to directly produce the DSD exist. This is not totally bad, but ideally as a consumer you should expect the SACD DSD layer to be either native DSD and only if not possible, DSD produced from up-conversion from high-res PCM or captured from the analogue master.

I am addressing labels such as Harmonia Mundi and Aliavox, that as far as I could know, do not re-master their recordings for issuing DSDs.

What do you mean by 'do not re-master their recordings for issuing DSDs'?

 

[microstrip]

(...) What do you mean by 'do not re-master their recordings for issuing DSDs'?

Do not re-mix or re-equalize.

 

[es347]

I could easily live on current SOTA digital - it is my main listening format - but I am lot happier having both formats.

In some sense format affects my music preferences - I prefer a lot listening to rock or jazz in vinyl.

..agree! I enjoy comparing redbook, hi res, DSD and vinyl formats of the same tracks. FWIW vinyl normally wins but I primarily listen to FLAC files many of which are DSD from a Lumin A1 server..

 

[FrantzM]

I don’t there is a FOMO.

There is a Curiosity of New Things, which I don’t want to abbreviate

I am not on this forum to listen to music. I have 4 classical concerts this week (already did two, Verdi requiem and Debussy La Mer/Haydn Trumpet Concerto./Shostakovich 5th).

I am here because I am a gear geek (GG), and want to learn what reproduced music the best and/or the difference between gears. So, can we live with single format – yes, we can live with Bose Audio too. Or Oppo. Anything above that is a gear hobby, just depends how big a geek you are. Plus, for classical, MCH classical and vinyl has a lot of material that is better than 2-ch digital classical. Which is why one could live with one format, but if he had the money and space and was a geek, would need three formats to enjoy it all.

Anyone active on this forum has gone beyond what is required to be happy with, and has signed up for the collective OCD. Whether he likes to admit it or not. How far the OCD takes him - to 5 exotic TTs, multiple formats including multiple versions of each format (3 tape decks, for instance), Masterbuilt cables, 13.4 MCH, etc, is a different and personal matter.


Ideally, I would stream Tidal to find new music, and then for my favorites buy the best LPs or digital, based on a case by case basis.

I dare you !

Again it could be the FOMO.. While agonizing on format I am missing the better aspect of the entire deal .. The Music.. On the scale of my values and likely that of the World Population, it is beyond whatever I and likely the rest of the World would find interesting about our audiophilia hobby ..

YMMV ... if it does, you're missing out

 

[Al M.]

These are a couple of odd assertions.

First, what good is a million titles if they're mostly overcompressed crap as a counter example? Not much.

Over-compressed crap? You must be listening mostly to pop then. Classical on CD is usually not over-compressed. On the contrary, the consensus among mastering engineers seems to be to let the dynamics run free, even though there may be exceptions.

Yes, CD on state-of-the art gear can sound very good, but Hi-Res on state-of-the art gear will still trump it.

Did I claim otherwise? Re-read what I said please. Implementation still trumps format. I was not talking about cases where implementation is taken out of the equation by listening to different formats on the same machine.

 

[YashN]

Over-compressed crap? You must be listening mostly to pop then.

Well, it sounds like a truism that most of the 'millions' is popular...

Did I claim otherwise? Re-read what I said please. Implementation still trumps format. I was not talking about cases where implementation is taken out of the equation.

So which implementation are you really talking about, because most of the state-of-the-art Redbook playback chains invariably convert to some form of high-rate DSD at the DAC's output?

Or, people have found great results doing up-conversion to high-rate DSD on their computer first into a native DSD DAC.

Additionally, you selectively pick the best implementation of one format and compare it to the worse recording of the higher-res format and conclude that the latter is irrelevant? How is that even a proper means of comparison? Because one could re-read what you said a thousand times and it will still be erroneous thinking and conclusion.

Now, since you mentioned Classical, guess where the best classical labels are doing? Recording to high-rate DSD where possible and if not capturing the Master Tapes to high-rate DSD...

Now, going back to the most common implementations: rather than have various stages of conversion between different formats (sample-based vs SDM), what happens if you greatly simplify the chain by recording to very high rate DSD and playing that as-is into a native DAC?

 

[YashN]

Do not re-mix or re-equalize.

Technically, a re-mix or re-equalisation of material isn't a necessity for the DSD layer.

 

[PeterA]

I see your point. However, resistance is not futile. I know myself, trust me Frantz. (Or, I could send you a 'yuuge' "believe me" , but then we know, this would not be believable.)

Glad you are interested in Barrett.

Come on, Al, dump those CDs into the basket of deplorables , along with my LPs. We can be greater together with downloadable files.

 

[Al M.]

Come on, Al, dump those CDs into the basket of deplorables , along with my LPs. We can be greater together with downloadable files.

Well, I guess then I should wear a T-Shirt, "Proud to be a Deplorable"...

 

[still-one]

So which implementation are you really talking about, because most of the state-of-the-art Redbook playback chains invariably convert to some form of high-rate DSD at the DAC's output?


?

That's a stretch. The best one's don't.

 

[bonzo75]

Over-compressed crap? You must be listening mostly to pop then. Classical on CD is usually not over-compressed. On the contrary, the consensus among mastering engineers seems to be to let the dynamics run free, even though there may be exceptions.



Did I claim otherwise? Re-read what I said please. Implementation still trumps format. I was not talking about cases where implementation is taken out of the equation by listening to different formats on the same machine.

Symphonies on CD can be less compressed than those on vinyl, but they can be many a times better on SACDs, MCH digital, and the tonal realism on vinyl.

On concertos and smaller stuff, vinyl way better

 

[Al M.]

Symphonies on CD can be less compressed than those on vinyl, but they can be many a times better on SACDs, MCH digital, and the tonal realism on vinyl.

On concertos and smaller stuff, vinyl way better

At times, dynamics on chamber material are in fact compressed on vinyl as well.