Jazz at the Pawnshop Again?

[edorr]

But JATP was not recorded in discrete MCH, so your theory holds no water.

It does - JATP is not germane to my theory. Obviously if JATP was recorded in stereo this would not qualify as "MCH done right". I'm talking about channel classic, or 2L nordic sound discrete MCH recordings. They blow the 2 channel mixes out of the water.

 

[edorr]

and mostly i preferred the stereo versions of the SACD multichannel discs to the multichannel. i have over 1000 SACD multichannel discs. again; execution trumps potential.

You don't have a MCH system now, so I presume this statement is based to your preferences back in the days when you had a MCH system. I keep coming back to the "done right" qualification. The channel classic and 2L nordic sound recordings are simply superior in MCH on a very good MCH system. I seem to recall you agree with this at some point (i.e. for "MCH done right" you preferred the MCH SACD mixes). I have a very good 2 channel system, and added relatively modest center and surrounds, and with the right recording it is like bringing a 2 channel knife to a MCH gunfight. Not even close.

The analog vs. digital debate is a whole different topic that I am absolutely not qualified to comment on (although last time I heard digital against a 100K TT on the same system, I preferred the digital)

 

[MadFloyd]

I just don't get this title at all. What's the attraction? Music or sonics or a combo of both? I don't find either stellar.

 

[slowGEEZR]

I just don't get this title at all. What's the attraction? Music or sonics or a combo of both? I don't find either stellar.

Interesting. Just the other night I had an audio get together and after listening to JATP, one of my friends said that if I ever want to show off the system, just put that record back on. Another friend is looking to now update his turntable after hearing that album at the gathering. I have many of the so-called "audiophile" pressings that are popular for showing off a system, but it was this album that was particularly great at showing my system's capabilities. I like the music, too.

 

[edorr]

Interesting. Just the other night I had an audio get together and after listening to JATP, one of my friends said that if I ever want to show off the system, just put that record back on. Another friend is looking to now update his turntable after hearing that album at the gathering. I have many of the so-called "audiophile" pressings that are popular for showing off a system, but it was this album that was particularly great at showing my system's capabilities. I like the music, too.

My favorite Jazz album to show off system is Chick Corea - Rendez Vous in New York (on MCH SACD of course) - beats JATP hands down in my opinion. I don't think there has been released on vinyl.

 

[BlueFox]

I just don't get this title at all. What's the attraction? Music or sonics or a combo of both? I don't find either stellar.

I agree. I bought the SACD since it is supposed to be a great example of SACD potential. It does sound good, but the music doesn't do anything for me. I guess I would rather listen to a less well recorded CD of something I like, versus a well recorded CD of something that I do not find interesting.

 

[audioarcher]

How many do we need of these??

Jazz at the Pawnshop

And I damn sure wouldn't have used a dCS 905 for a DSD transfer. I had one of these and didn't like it then. ProStudioMasters has the DSD128fs download

So the DXD and DSD64fs sample rates were done using the dCS 905
The 192kHz and the DSD128fs were done using the Ayre QA-9

What was it that you did not like about the dCS 905 Bruce? Maybe the Vivaldi clock makes it all better.

After hearing the files Ayre had on their website showing off their ADC, I would not want anything that was recorded with it in PCM or DSD.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

My favorite Jazz album to show off system is Chick Corea - Rendez Vous in New York (on MCH SACD of course) - beats JATP hands down in my opinion. I don't think there has been released on vinyl.

as far as favorite Jazz album to show off the system; wow, there are so many.......I like Chick Corea too, but Ellington's 'Jazz Party' and Ben Webster's 'Live at the Renaissance' are more where my vision of that would be. both from the musical flow and chops, and recording quality, I think that those might set the bar pretty high. then there is Armstrong and Ellington, Together Again for the First Time. 'Duke's Place' is a force of nature. Wow! or maybe almost anything with Count Basie. you cannot go wrong with any Basie 'Pablo' as a demo disc. Miles Davis 'Live at the Blackhawk' is fantastic.....the master at his peak. I have a 15ips 1/4" of that that I love.

if you play any of those records, and then play JATPS.....well.....it's not really fair at all. those 70's Swedish guys are pretty good, but they are not in that league. OTOH, if you play JATPS unto itself as it's own thing then I think it works for me. it is a great recording, it's energetic, it's rousing and flows and builds nicely. but it does get repetitive and it's a bit hokey but mostly I like it if I don't play it too often. maybe it's better as a demo disc than a sit back and enjoy type music.

if I play JATPS for visitors they do like the sound, but when Webster's tenor opens 'Georgia on my Mind' at full tilt boggie the listeners are gobsmacked big time. many orders of magnitude difference.

 

[audioarcher]

I do give Acoustic Sounds a lot of credit for disclosing the converters they used though. Where else have we seen that?

They could record future titles with four or five different converters and then we could buy our favorite, or all five.

 

[Bruce B]

What was it that you did not like about the dCS 905 Bruce? Maybe the Vivaldi clock makes it all better.

After hearing the files Ayre had on their website showing off their ADC, I would not want anything that was recorded with it in PCM or DSD.

If any A-D needs an external clock to sound better..... then it's broken. The same goes for the DAC. The only reason, in my opinion, that you would ever use an external clock, is when you're using multiple A-D converters in a studio or you need to sync multiple pieces of equipment to one clock source. But if you're just using one A-D or one DAC in your system, I have never heard an improvement using an external clock..... I've heard the opposite.

I had the dCS 905 and 955 for 2 yr. after I got scammed with the Genex fiasco. It was the best DSD at the time, but PCM easily bettered it. Back then, DSD was just starting out and there weren't too many players on the block. The only ones I remember were dCS, Genex and DAD. I had them all...

 

[Bruce B]

I do give Acoustic Sounds a lot of credit for disclosing the converters they used though. Where else have we seen that?

That's not Acoustic Sounds.... that's René Laflamme at 2xHD mastering in Montreal

They could record future titles with four or five different converters and then we could buy our favorite, or all five.

I do that with all my major label transfers

 

[audioarcher]

That's not Acoustic Sounds.... that's René Laflamme at 2xHD mastering in Montreal




I do that with all my major label transfers

Good point. Still I hope it becomes a trend.

 

[rockitman]

After hearing the files Ayre had on their website showing off their ADC, I would not want anything that was recorded with it in PCM or DSD.

What didn't you like about the Ayre a/d conversion ? I have not heard the files but was considering it as an upgrade to my Tascam da3000 built in a/d for vinyl and tape drops.

 

[audioarcher]

What didn't you like about the Ayre a/d conversion ? I have not heard the files but was considering it as an upgrade to my Tascam da3000 built in a/d for vinyl and tape drops.

Well, from what I remember they had some PCM and DSD recordings that were recorded on their ADC of the same recording. In the DSD file, images were too large and everything was overly warm. The PCM files had the opposite problem. Everything sounded too small and too thin. If I remember correctly they were using these as an example of why PCM sounded better in their opinion. IMO they both sounded wrong.

 

[Joe Whip]

I would agree that even with the technical glitches, Live at the Renassiance is a far better performance and record. I have found JATP to be far too bright on both vinyl and CD. I am downloading a sample track of the DSD128 recording to compare it with my CD rip just for giggles.

 

[edorr]

as far as favorite Jazz album to show off the system; wow, there are so many.......I like Chick Corea too, but Ellington's 'Jazz Party' and Ben Webster's 'Live at the Renaissance' are more where my vision of that would be. both from the musical flow and chops, and recording quality, I think that those might set the bar pretty high. then there is Armstrong and Ellington, Together Again for the First Time. 'Duke's Place' is a force of nature. Wow! or maybe almost anything with Count Basie. you cannot go wrong with any Basie 'Pablo' as a demo disc. Miles Davis 'Live at the Blackhawk' is fantastic.....the master at his peak. I have a 15ips 1/4" of that that I love.

if you play any of those records, and then play JATPS.....well.....it's not really fair at all. those 70's Swedish guys are pretty good, but they are not in that league. OTOH, if you play JATPS unto itself as it's own thing then I think it works for me. it is a great recording, it's energetic, it's rousing and flows and builds nicely. but it does get repetitive and it's a bit hokey but mostly I like it if I don't play it too often. maybe it's better as a demo disc than a sit back and enjoy type music.

if I play JATPS for visitors they do like the sound, but when Webster's tenor opens 'Georgia on my Mind' at full tilt boggie the listeners are gobsmacked big time. many orders of magnitude difference.

I find the problem with jazz recordings is usually the rhythm section (in particular drums). Not loud (or may be low)enough in the mix relative to what you hear in a live venue, so you dont get that visceral experience of low frequency energy hanging in the room. Getting very good sounding horns (or evenmpiano) is usually relatively easy. On good old 44/16 I really like Charles Lloyd - sangam. Phenomenal music and stellar sound. Not on vinyl regrettably.

 

[Joe Whip]

If you want get drum sound, check out Duke's Big 4. The drums on the XRCD are as realistic as I have ever heard on a recording. The visceral impact of the kick drum is sensational.

 

[edorr]

If you want get drum sound, check out Duke's Big 4. The drums on the XRCD are as realistic as I have ever heard on a recording. The visceral impact of the kick drum is sensational.

Well, first and foremost I want music that I like, not a demo of well recorded drums. But there is always a chance this recording offers both, so ill check it out. I like small ensemble jazz (which this appears to be), as opposed to big band, so that is a good start.

 

[Joe Whip]

Gee, it is classic jazz with Duke Ellington on piano, Louis Bellson on drums, Joe Pass on guitar and Ray Brown on bass. It really doesn't get any better. Maybe if it had Ben Webster on tenor as well but he had passed away by then.

 

[edorr]

Gee, it is classic jazz with Duke Ellington on piano, Louis Bellson on drums, Joe Pass on guitar and Ray Brown on bass. It really doesn't get any better. Maybe if it had Ben Webster on tenor as well but he had passed away by then.

I'm into more modern stuff, but got to keep an open mind. Already ordered it. The Webster renaissance is $55 on amazon used and $300 new, so I'll pass on that one.