Zero Distortion: Reed, Thales, Feickert Firebird, and Pluto 12A with Ikeda 407

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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#1
http://zero-distortion.org/reed-idlerfeickert-firebirdpluto-12athales-blumenhofer/

Compare notes of:

1. Thales TT with Thales arm and Zyx Uni 1 to Feickert Firebird with Thales arm and Zyx Uni1
2. Feickert Firebird with Thales arm and Ikeda 407 both carrying the Zyx Uni 1 for arm compares
3. Reed Idler drive with Reed 3Q and Zyx Uni 1 compared to the Feickert with Ikeda 407 and Zyx Uni 1
4. Pluto 12a with Reed 2p and Koetsu RSP
5. A brief compare of dCS Rossini and EMM Labs
 

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BruceD

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Dec 13, 2013
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#2
Another excellent report by our master "reviewer " Ked-- concise and to the point. good work:D

I agree some fine alternatives there all punching in the same division which is good for the equations being so.

My only point would be to make sure all the Files open to size so observations can be viewed to stimulate with the prose.

Don't know whether is was just my system(MacPro) but some uploaded same size as the primary posted pics--too small-- one not at all--and one --- the interior with the gentleman seated--opened fine and the sizing correct there.

Just get the others in sync with this and all will be excellent

Thank you again for the Posting:b

BruceD
 

spiritofmusic

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#3
Nice write up Ked
So many toys to play with, you and Ron must have a lot of fun
You didn't really comment much on the Thales, do we conclude it was the least sound that day?
I'm aware of particular design issues that hamper the Reed, I'm not surprised again you preferred it less than the others
The Feikert really is a marvel of minimalist cool design, Pluto a little blingy for my liking
Looks like a close choice for you, Feikert for unstressed presentation, Pluto a little more insistent
Maybe Pluto higher torque/inertia?
 

bonzo75

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#4
Nice write up Ked
So many toys to play with, you and Ron must have a lot of fun
You didn't really comment much on the Thales, do we conclude it was the least sound that day?
I'm aware of particular design issues that hamper the Reed, I'm not surprised again you preferred it less than the others
The Feikert really is a marvel of minimalist cool design, Pluto a little blingy for my liking
Looks like a close choice for you, Feikert for unstressed presentation, Pluto a little more insistent
Maybe Pluto higher torque/inertia?
Hi impressive. You got all of that right including that Pluto has higher torque (I don't know about inertia). It is a very good design probably and if with IO Sig or something might work who knows.

Thales is a clean sound, preferred Feickert. Feickert seems high value for money too.
 

Uk Paul

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#5
Fun test Kedar; are you shopping? Hope your well..
 

spiritofmusic

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#6
The Reed I was v interested in for a while, but it has some design flaws that are issues at this exalted level
You missed a chance to hear the Peter Reinders PTP Solid 9 and 12 re engineered Lenco L75 idler drives that are demoed in Amsterdam
Fwiw, the only analog I'm interested as an alternative to my current rig, esp w 12" Schick arm
 

bonzo75

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#7
The Reed I was v interested in for a while, but it has some design flaws that are issues at this exalted level
You missed a chance to hear the Peter Reinders PTP Solid 9 and 12 re engineered Lenco L75 idler drives that are demoed in Amsterdam
Fwiw, the only analog I'm interested as an alternative to my current rig, esp w 12" Schick arm
I heard the PTP 12 but in a very small raidho class D aavik integrated system (integrated phono) same Zyx cart but a 700 quid arm. It had depth and stage and bass. Unfortunately with raidho and class D aavik...it's a no-brainer to buy the PTP - worst case one can sell it off at a very small loss after they find their much more expensive dream set up.
 
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spiritofmusic

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#8
Sure Ked
I'd been tracking Peter's PTP Solid Lenco rebuilt idlers some time back, but lost track of them
Despite my analog blooming atm, I am aware of certain limiting factors
This is more in the tolerances of the construction and the execution of the tech
I really am not minded to go back to belt drive having been converted to the Dark Side of rim drive over the last 4 years
And this is the one firmly on my radar, excellent engineering at a Real World price
Peter looks like one of the good guys in audio
And as a massive fan of the essence of classic analog engineering, reconfiguring the superb Lenco L75 for the modern age is to be truly applauded
 

marslo

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May 2, 2014
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#9
Ked, again very nice write-up.
I missed a bit comments about Blumenhofers, what are your and Ron's impressions?
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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#10
Ked, again very nice write-up.
I missed a bit comments about Blumenhofers, what are your and Ron's impressions?
Hi they are nice speakers. There are two more models above this so the big one might be good. These are not like dynamic like Trios but have a more pleasing tone and more suited for smaller rooms as well, like the duos. The bass is nice open front facing and well integrated. I like the open mouth bass as opposed to closed box designs. People in the market at the budget and size of the duos should consider this. Both are extremely different sounds.
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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#11
Sure Ked
I'd been tracking Peter's PTP Solid Lenco rebuilt idlers some time back, but lost track of them
Despite my analog blooming atm, I am aware of certain limiting factors
This is more in the tolerances of the construction and the execution of the tech
I really am not minded to go back to belt drive having been converted to the Dark Side of rim drive over the last 4 years
And this is the one firmly on my radar, excellent engineering at a Real World price
Peter looks like one of the good guys in audio
And as a massive fan of the essence of classic analog engineering, reconfiguring the superb Lenco L75 for the modern age is to be truly applauded
I have been meaning to listen to this since I read on Lenco forum that people with Verdier Platine and Acustic Raven replaced their TTs with this. Also as you know high end audio Salvatore in the US had the Nantais Lenco as his reference for many years
 

spiritofmusic

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#12
Ked, I've heard a couple of restored/replinthed L75s over the years and been v impressed
I'm not a massive fan of the chunky look of the Nantais Lencos, Peter's Solid 9 and 12 are much more my thing
The user reports are stupendous to say the least, his tts replacing Vpi, TW and Linn
Art Dudley's Stereophile review is stellar
And the truly reasonable price is the cherry on the cake
Find it interesting that another restored L75 recommends the Schick 12" as well, ie OMA, and Thomas Schick himself has created an idler he uses his arm with
 

bonzo75

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#13
Ked, I've heard a couple of restored/replinthed L75s over the years and been v impressed
I'm not a massive fan of the chunky look of the Nantais Lencos, Peter's Solid 9 and 12 are much more my thing
The user reports are stupendous to say the least, his tts replacing Vpi, TW and Linn
Art Dudley's Stereophile review is stellar
And the truly reasonable price is the cherry on the cake
Find it interesting that another restored L75 recommends the Schick 12" as well, ie OMA, and Thomas Schick himself has created an idler he uses his arm with
I heard a Lenco with Schick and SPU on the WE 16A. That guy is friends both with Schick and Peter. He said Peter was coming over and staying a week at his and would restore his Lenco during that time. Schick's idler and Schick were in the WE room at Munich both 2014 and 2015 (not last year when you were there). Bill will tell you how that idler was embarassing the dCS Scarlatti. That was one of my decision points to pursue analog.

I think Art dudley said that the PTP + Schick + Tzar DST cart (remake of the Neumann DST) was the best sound he has enjoyed in his home.
 

spiritofmusic

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#14
I think you're due a return trip to Amsterdam
I haven't been there for a while, I've got an additional reason now to get back
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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#15
I think you're due a return trip to Amsterdam
I haven't been there for a while, I've got an additional reason now to get back
We can ask him to set it up next to Feickert if you want to go down and view too. The arm on his is fixed, but one can be ordered with arm board of your choice. So it will obviously go up tremendously if a good arm is added.
 

Altanpsx

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Sep 10, 2014
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#16
I know all the tonearms and cartridges mentioned(used and demoed most of it), i am agreed with the findings, but zyx universe is not a good match for ikeda. koetsu would be better match for ikeda. reed and thales tonearms are very good match for zyx universe. i believe with ikeda kai and ikeda 407 would be a killer match.

Also finding a dealer, gives a lots of options to consider is an amazing thing. You may listen many speakers and amps in many dealer, but when it comes to analog it is a another story. Five star to A10 audio....
 

spiritofmusic

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#17
Ked, the PTP can only be heard at Peter's, not the shop you just visited in Amsterdam, if I'm not mistaken it's sold factory direct
So, not poss to a/b v Feickert or anything else
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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#18
Ked, the PTP can only be heard at Peter's, not the shop you just visited in Amsterdam, if I'm not mistaken it's sold factory direct
So, not poss to a/b v Feickert or anything else
He owns one. It can be bought direct and he has one in his shop, which can be bought at same price. Yes you can buy directly from Peter but then cannot compare. That said it is low cost so one can buy and keep and sell off if one finds something better at minimal loss.
 

853guy

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Aug 14, 2013
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#19
spiritofmusic said:
Ked, I've heard a couple of restored/replinthed L75s over the years and been v impressed
I'm not a massive fan of the chunky look of the Nantais Lencos, Peter's Solid 9 and 12 are much more my thing
The user reports are stupendous to say the least, his tts replacing Vpi, TW and Linn
Art Dudley's Stereophile review is stellar
And the truly reasonable price is the cherry on the cake
Find it interesting that another restored L75 recommends the Schick 12" as well, ie OMA, and Thomas Schick himself has created an idler he uses his arm with
I heard a Lenco with Schick and SPU on the WE 16A. That guy is friends both with Schick and Peter. He said Peter was coming over and staying a week at his and would restore his Lenco during that time. Schick's idler and Schick were in the WE room at Munich both 2014 and 2015 (not last year when you were there). Bill will tell you how that idler was embarassing the dCS Scarlatti. That was one of my decision points to pursue analog.

I think Art dudley said that the PTP + Schick + Tzar DST cart (remake of the Neumann DST) was the best sound he has enjoyed in his home.
Hello gents,

I believe the Schick-14 is based on the Commonwealth with the 14 being a reference to the size of the platter (although Commonwealth's used either 12" or 16" platters). Schick stuck to 14" for a flywheel effect but can still be used with a 9" arm. I have a friend in the Southern Hemisphere who distributes the Schick 12" arm. He loves it, but only on SPUs and 103's. He prefers his EMT 997 for other carts.

Silbatone used the Artemis Labs SA-1 a couple of times with Schroder's arms at Munich, if I'm not mistaken? I've not heard it, but from all reports also seems like great value, with an innovative tape drive mech and a feed-forward design by John Atwood. Think it's limited to 9" and 10" arms, though.

Agree the PTP looks like good value, aesthetics notwithstanding.
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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#20
Hello gents,

I believe the Schick-14 is based on the Commonwealth with the 14 being a reference to the size of the platter (although Commonwealth's used either 12" or 16" platters). Schick stuck to 14" for a flywheel effect but can still be used with a 9" arm. I have a friend in the Southern Hemisphere who distributes the Schick 12" arm. He loves it, but only on SPUs and 103's. He prefers his EMT 997 for other carts.

Silbatone used the Artemis Labs SA-1 a couple of times with Schroder's arms at Munich, if I'm not mistaken? I've not heard it, but from all reports also seems like great value, with an innovative tape drive mech and a feed-forward design by John Atwood. Think it's limited to 9" and 10" arms, though.

Agree the PTP looks like good value, aesthetics notwithstanding.
Last year at Munich they had a Garrard - don't remember the arm but before that Schick's own TT and arm, and I think same at 2014 because Schick was operating the TT (at that time I had not started asking people what TT/arm/cart is that, because I was oblivious to the wonders of analog)
 

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