van den Hul Colibri Grand Cru

marty

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Lots of talk about dark, lean and light etc with some frustration (and even condemnation) of words being used as appropriate descriptors. Yet I do not see a single frequency response measurement of any system discussed. I suggest that showing the simplest frequency response to pink noise, is an extremely useful piece of data and a very good predictor of whether a system will be dark sounding or not. The harmonic structure of notes and how they are reproduced is surely important, but it seems rather meaningless to talk about that until you illustrate the overall frequency response of your system at the listening position. That, by far, is of the greatest fundamental determinant of how a system sounds.Talking about how Lamm or any other piece of gear reproduces harmonics is relatively meaningless if you have a 15dB null point at 150 Hz or a 12dB peak at 50 Hz (both are relatively common deviations even in good systems).

On the subject of harmonics, if you want to discuss their sonic relevance, it may be far more useful to talk about the harmonics of your power line. Have you ever looked at that? What is the THD of your powerline? Do you have mostly 3rd degree or 5th degree harmonics of your 60Hz (or 50Hz) AC sine wave? Ah, but I digress....However, measuring your AC line requires some sophisticated measuring tools whereas everyone has a iPhone and access to pink noise so measuring your system's frequency response is trivial.
 

Maril555

Well-Known Member
Jun 27, 2014
219
183
175
Lots of talk about dark, lean and light etc with some frustration (and even condemnation) of words being used as appropriate descriptors. Yet I do not see a single frequency response measurement of any system discussed. I suggest that showing the simplest frequency response to pink noise, is an extremely useful piece of data and a very good predictor of whether a system will be dark sounding or not. The harmonic structure of notes and how they are reproduced is surely important, but it seems rather meaningless to talk about that until you illustrate the overall frequency response of your system at the listening position. That, by far, is of the greatest fundamental determinant of how a system sounds.Talking about how Lamm or any other piece of gear reproduces harmonics is relatively meaningless if you have a 15dB null point at 150 Hz or a 12dB peak at 50 Hz (both are relatively common deviations even in good systems).

On the subject of harmonics, if you want to discuss their sonic relevance, it may be far more useful to talk about the harmonics of your power line. Have you ever looked at that? What is the THD of your powerline? Do you have mostly 3rd degree or 5th degree harmonics of your 60Hz (or 50Hz) AC sine wave? Ah, but I digress....However, measuring your AC line requires some sophisticated measuring tools whereas everyone has a iPhone and access to pink noise so measuring your system's frequency response is trivial.
Amen
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
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Dark and light, lean etc as used here are relative terms. There are no absolutes in audio. But you know that of course, Marty.

I am not sure if frequency response tells the whole story either. After having improved the power to my system it sounds less 'bright' to me; among others, this is because the highs seem better integrated, not because they seem less in intensity. Frankly, I doubt this subjective experience would show up in a frequency response curve.
 

marty

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
2,475
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United States
Dark and light, lean etc as used here are relative terms. There are no absolutes in audio. But you know that of course, Marty.

I am not sure if frequency response tells the whole story either. After having improved the power to my system it sounds less 'bright' to me; among others, this is because the highs seem better integrated, not because they seem less in intensity. Frankly, I doubt this subjective experience would show up in a frequency response curve.
Al, of course there are absolutes in audio. A decibel is "absolute". So is "frequency response", "distortion" and "watts". But if I understand your point, it is that other things beside frequency response can effect how we perceive sonics. That is certainly true. However this discussion is best held elsewhere so as not to further derail the thread.
 
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crosswind

New Member
Jun 6, 2021
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12
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43
Dear Grand Cru owners, I am looking for advice on loading my G.C.

I am today using a Jensen SUT into my Allnic phono with my Grand Cru, however I am looking for a better solution and one that gives me more options and flexibility and better quality. So, I have talked to Lukasz at Lampizator about a SUT-A. What I really find interesting about the SUT-A is the possibility for customized loading (5 settings) and two inputs. I also use The Frog Gold in another arm and that one could then be used in the second input of the SUT-A. (It holds similar data as the G.C. and should work fine with the same settings)

Lukasz adviced med to find the optimal loading for the G.C. for the center loading value, being X, and then choose 1/4X, 1/2X, 2X and 4X for the settings below and above center.

My question is then if any of you experienced Grand Cru owners could give me some advice on what value X should be? I know this is often a personal opininon and subject to many variables, but maybe there is a common understanding of the optimal loading of a G.C with 0.75mV output, or at least an estimate? (I will send mr. Van den Hul an e-mail for advice too)

My version of the Grand Cru is the 0.75mV 5R and the box states optimal loading to be between 20-600 ohms.

Thank You.
 

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