To switch or not to switch? Melco S-100 or Innuos Phoenix NET switch?

shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
1,168
1,601
330
Cologne, Germany
Since I am using the Antipodes K50 Musikserver the LAN connection is becoming the critical path in my digital set up.

From my times with Innuos Zenith III and Innuos Phoenix USB a Silent Angel Bonn N8 is in use to improve the LAN connection.
After a while the Bonn N8 was updated with a Keces P8 Power supply.

Without the Bonn N8 the sonic result was definitely compromised, interestingly even when listening to HD.
It seems, that ROON is creating a lot of traffic in the back.

From there the decision was taken, to improve the LAN connection even further.

A second Bonn N8 was placed between Router and wall distribution. The effect was audible as well.

Reading in some computer audio Forums gave me the idea, to stagg switches. I bought a bunch of Buffalo 2008 and 2016 , as there quality is good and they are cheap.

One Buffalo plus one Bonn N8 were very good sum, one pair between Router and wall distribution and one pair in front of the music server. Adding one more switch was a step back.
(in my set up)

Loaded with this experience I ordered the

Melco S-100 switch

as the Melco as the reputation to be one of the best switches around.

Melco is a subbrand of Buffalo and their way into the challenge to improve a switch can start on another level. And they did!, and changed the program code to prioritize music files in the internal data management of the switch. The Melco has two sets of outputs, 100mb for AudioStreamer and 1000mb for MusicServer.

My Antipodes K50 preferred being connected to the 100mb output.

The Melco S-100 outperformed the Bonn N8 with ease. Both Switches are connected to the Keces P8, as the Melco is coming with a small wall power supply and need a better LPS to perform best as well.

To my surprise the Melco S -100 liked the additional Buffalo as well.

The level of improvement with the Melco S100 is like changing the DAC to a better level (at least in my system)

My understanding is going into the direction, that nowadays DACs are perform on a level, that the quality of the incoming signal is becoming more and more important.
And that the quality of the digital signal starts before the musicserver gets involved.

Adding a Keces P8 and a good DC cable to the Melco S-100 bill you will end up on the price level of the next star participating the switch market competition. The recently launched

Innuos Phoenix NET

is on the way to define the next level of quality.

The Innuos Phoenix NET has only 100mb outputs which is fine for my K50. The Innuos has the reduction of distortion and a reclocking on the list, so a little different approach to the Melco

In my system the Innuos Phoenix NET outperformed the Melco S-100 in front of the Musikserver, but between Router and Wall distribution the 1000mb output of the Melco S-100 provided the best performance.

And again the pairing with the simple Buffalo switch improved the result.

Depending on the personal set up the Melco S-100 or / and the Innuos Phoenix NET switch can make a big difference.

The difference is very similar as known from fair and good and very good CD Drives in the good old time of the CD.

A better digital signal gives obviously the best start to enjoy music from digital sources, and again to my surprise this is starting with the LAN Signal.

I am happy, that I did the trial with this relatively new class of components

(Different LAN cables were used, from standard to Wireworld Platinum)


IMG_5378.jpg IMG_5358-1.jpg IMG_5379.jpg IMG_5332-1.jpg IMG_5333-1.jpg IMG_5380.jpg
 

peter pan

Member
Sep 15, 2020
44
33
18
22
thx for the report.
since the phoenixNET is very new and has a dedicted clock, how many days did you burn it in already?
i have one on order btw but it takes a month according to the dealer.
 

shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
1,168
1,601
330
Cologne, Germany
Monday was the first shipping / release day, so I would assume, that I am hearing one of the first PhoenixNET available.
My impression was fresh out of the box and than after 5h continues playing.
The difference in performance was much smaller, than expected.
May be the first production run @Innuos had an extensive testing prior shipment.
 
  • Like
Reactions: peter pan

peter pan

Member
Sep 15, 2020
44
33
18
22
The difference in performance was much smaller, than expected.
do you mean the 5h did make not much difference or the phoenixNET is not much different to the meclo s100?
i would expect the unit needs a month of burn in at least.
 

shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
1,168
1,601
330
Cologne, Germany
do you mean the 5h did make not much difference or the phoenixNET is not much different to the meclo s100?
i would expect the unit needs a month of burn in at least.
5h did not make big difference on phoenixNet.
I can tell you in one month, if the the difference is getting much bigger.
As said, I am not sure, if the units of the first "job1" shipment had some hours more testing in the Innuos plant than the future standard production units, which will have an effect on the expected burn in time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Re-tread

peter pan

Member
Sep 15, 2020
44
33
18
22
thx
well, if you could hear any kind of improvement even if it is incredible small, it is still a big thing:)
 

howiebrou

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2012
2,669
3,185
680
Since I am using the Antipodes K50 Musikserver the LAN connection is becoming the critical path in my digital set up.

From my times with Innuos Zenith III and Innuos Phoenix USB a Silent Angel Bonn N8 is in use to improve the LAN connection.
After a while the Bonn N8 was updated with a Keces P8 Power supply.

Without the Bonn N8 the sonic result was definitely compromised, interestingly even when listening to HD.
It seems, that ROON is creating a lot of traffic in the back.

From there the decision was taken, to improve the LAN connection even further.

A second Bonn N8 was placed between Router and wall distribution. The effect was audible as well.

Reading in some computer audio Forums gave me the idea, to stagg switches. I bought a bunch of Buffalo 2008 and 2016 , as there quality is good and they are cheap.

One Buffalo plus one Bonn N8 were very good sum, one pair between Router and wall distribution and one pair in front of the music server. Adding one more switch was a step back.
(in my set up)

Loaded with this experience I ordered the

Melco S-100 switch

as the Melco as the reputation to be one of the best switches around.

Melco is a subbrand of Buffalo and their way into the challenge to improve a switch can start on another level. And they did!, and changed the program code to prioritize music files in the internal data management of the switch. The Melco has two sets of outputs, 100mb for AudioStreamer and 1000mb for MusicServer.

My Antipodes K50 preferred being connected to the 100mb output.

The Melco S-100 outperformed the Bonn N8 with ease. Both Switches are connected to the Keces P8, as the Melco is coming with a small wall power supply and need a better LPS to perform best as well.

To my surprise the Melco S -100 liked the additional Buffalo as well.

The level of improvement with the Melco S100 is like changing the DAC to a better level (at least in my system)

My understanding is going into the direction, that nowadays DACs are perform on a level, that the quality of the incoming signal is becoming more and more important.
And that the quality of the digital signal starts before the musicserver gets involved.

Adding a Keces P8 and a good DC cable to the Melco S-100 bill you will end up on the price level of the next star participating the switch market competition. The recently launched

Innuos Phoenix NET

is on the way to define the next level of quality.

The Innuos Phoenix NET has only 100mb outputs which is fine for my K50. The Innuos has the reduction of distortion and a reclocking on the list, so a little different approach to the Melco

In my system the Innuos Phoenix NET outperformed the Melco S-100 in front of the Musikserver, but between Router and Wall distribution the 1000mb output of the Melco S-100 provided the best performance.

And again the pairing with the simple Buffalo switch improved the result.

Depending on the personal set up the Melco S-100 or / and the Innuos Phoenix NET switch can make a big difference.

The difference is very similar as known from fair and good and very good CD Drives in the good old time of the CD.

A better digital signal gives obviously the best start to enjoy music from digital sources, and again to my surprise this is starting with the LAN Signal.

I am happy, that I did the trial with this relatively new class of components

(Different LAN cables were used, from standard to Wireworld Platinum)


View attachment 75520 View attachment 75521 View attachment 75522 View attachment 75524 View attachment 75523 View attachment 75525
Whats the difference in price between the Innuos and the Melco?
 

Fohlenfan

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2016
46
11
113
Dear Shakti, i would be very curios what happened to your Overall SQ, if you spent all the money for the Switches into an Aurender. In my System the step from an Nucleus towards the Aurender NH100 was such an unexpected big Improvement in every single Discipline that i could never hoped for. Ok Roon is a much better Software to manage the music files, but in SQ the Aurender is just a big step ahead.
 

Diasoft5

Member
Feb 19, 2020
39
14
13
52
Germany
Did you try fibre optics between the swichtes?
 

shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
1,168
1,601
330
Cologne, Germany
Whats the difference in price between the Innuos and the Melco?
German recommended retail price, incl VAT:

Melco S-100 : 2000,- eur
better LPS is a must, like Keces P8: 700,- eur
Total: 2700,- eur

Innuos PhoenixNET: 2750,- eur
 
  • Like
Reactions: howiebrou

shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
1,168
1,601
330
Cologne, Germany

shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
1,168
1,601
330
Cologne, Germany
Dear Shakti, i would be very curios what happened to your Overall SQ, if you spent all the money for the Switches into an Aurender. In my System the step from an Nucleus towards the Aurender NH100 was such an unexpected big Improvement in every single Discipline that i could never hoped for. Ok Roon is a much better Software to manage the music files, but in SQ the Aurender is just a big step ahead.
A long time ago an Aurender W20 was my personal reference, but since my main source is analog, I am using ROON to explore new music on TIDAL and Qobuz . If I like the music, I still buy the record. Means, that ROON is the 100% must for me.
The Antipodes K50 music server is for me the best affordable way to listen to ROON, Now I am trying to connect the Antipodes in a proper way to my family / House net.

The Melco and the Innuos switch do not only improve the Overall SQ, the benefit is much wider and I will not go back,
having heard this better Ethernet connection.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Re-tread

Fohlenfan

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2016
46
11
113
A long time ago an Aurender W20 was my personal reference, but since my main source is analog, I am using ROON to explore new music on TIDAL and Qobuz . If I like the music, I still buy the record. Means, that ROON is the 100% must for me.
The Antipodes K50 music server is for me the best affordable way to listen to ROON, Now I am trying to connect the Antipodes in a proper way to my family / House net.

The Melco and the Innuos switch do not only improve the Overall SQ, the benefit is much wider and I will not go back,
having heard this better Ethernet connection.
Dear Shakti, TIDAL integration in the Aurender is ok for me, but i really Understand your Point. enjoy your musical journey.
 
  • Like
Reactions: shakti

howiebrou

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2012
2,669
3,185
680
German recommended retail price, incl VAT:

Melco S-100 : 2000,- eur
better LPS is a must, like Keces P8: 700,- eur
Total: 2700,- eur

Innuos PhoenixNET: 2750,- eur
Pretty similar I guess. I presume then that the Innuos has a built in LPS?
 

shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
1,168
1,601
330
Cologne, Germany
Pretty similar I guess. I presume then that the Innuos has a built in LPS?
Yes, the built in LPS is a kind of carry over from the Innuos Statement
(similar approach can be seen in the Innuos Phoenix USB clock)
 

thyname

Well-Known Member
Apr 22, 2019
115
83
95
N. Virginia
Thanks for taking your time to write your report here @shakti

Wow! you are the first one with hands on experience on the Innuos PhoenixNET, first one I have seen out in the wild.

I had heard chatter about the PhoenixNET for about a year now, so I knew it was coming, but to tell you the truth I was disappointed they priced it so high at $3,500 (here in US). The good news is, it does not need a separate linear power supply, so here is that. The benchmark on switches for me is the EtherREGEN, at much lower price, so it will be interesting when the reports start coming out comparing the two
 

shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
1,168
1,601
330
Cologne, Germany
The benchmark on switches for me is the EtherREGEN, at much lower price, so it will be interesting when the reports start coming out comparing the two
Just comparing the full blown EtherRegen (estimated) Price:

EtherRegen: 800,- eur
LPS for switch: 700,- eur
external 10MHZ clock: 800,- eur
LPS for clock: 700,- eur

this will end up very close to the Innuos PhoenixNET price point
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nikko and peter pan

peter pan

Member
Sep 15, 2020
44
33
18
22
originally i was looking for the melco with a pink faun clock. together about 4k.
then you will need 2 extra powersupplys plus 2 extra powercords. that will be a 3 box solution, you may want to add footers and other tweaks.
some do even run 2 melcos in series....
cut the story short, i was not willing and kept waiting. yes the phoenix net is expensive but compared to the melco-plan much cheaper and much more compact.
 
  • Like
Reactions: shakti

Forte

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2017
87
58
98
These belong in the higher end switch category:
- Sotm modded + optional LPS + optional clock
- Telegartner M12 Magic + optional LPS
- Melco S100 + optional LPS + optional modded clock
- Innous PhoenixNet
- Telegartner M12 Gold + optional LPS
 
  • Like
Reactions: peter pan

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing