The importance of Owning Media

Audire

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2019
432
473
135
S. FL
Though it's not the majority of our listening pleasure, we do enjoy streaming. It can be very relaxing. To be clear, in this context what I mean by "streaming" refers to listening to Qobuz and Tidal, etc. I'm not here referring to streaming ripped CDs and Vinyl.

Big surprise a few weeks ago Qobuz removed many albums we really enjoy. These files appear as "greyed out" on your Playlists. I contacted Qobuz and there was no reason given. They said they are waiting on Feedback from someone who controls this area. Since then Crickets!

IMO, the streaming companies need to deal better with this issue. Some suggestions:

(1) A computer program could be written that would automatically notify us when - for whatever reason - they are removing a song or album from our Playlists.

(2) Perhaps the song they are removing is available by the same artist on a different album. IMO, they could supply a link to these other sources in their notification to us. We could press a link in our email and just add it to our Playlist. Or they could make a pop-up on their website to do the same thing.

(3) When deleted (greyed out) songs appear in your Playlists, it can effect playing the entire Playlist. At times, the Playlist goes into kind of a stall and begins repeating songs at random - at least it did for us. To repair this the greyed out songs had to be deleted from our Playlists. On our Nikki Parrot Playlists removing 5 albums of songs took about 20 minutes. Listening time was shortened. I ended just playing CDs.

Why can't this be automated for us? If Qobuz removed a song or album then they should also remove it from all our Playlists. They could transfer all these files automatically into another Non-Playable Playlist of songs. This way we could followup with them later on these songs ... and ask for them back.

This said, IMO there's no substitute for owning media. I own a lots of CDs and have just begun a vinyl collection (only 350-400 so far). While I like the numerous titles and convenience of streaming, owning media is the only way to know we will have music on demand. When we own the media, it can’t be taken away when rights run out or when it becomes unprofitable to keep in circulation. Yes, streaming is the current - ever changing - wave of the future. But we shouldn't throw out the baby with the bath water.

This may just be an age thing; I still like reading a real book too! :)
 
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dan31

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2010
831
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393
SF Bay
This has always been my contention. Never give up physical media you own. If streaming is a buisness you can expect them to make choices that are in their best interest. I can see the record labels jacking up the rates once the majority are into streaming.
 
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Audire

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2019
432
473
135
S. FL
This has always been my contention. Never give up physical media you own. If streaming is a buisness you can expect them to make choices that are in their best interest. I can see the record labels jacking up the rates once the majority are into streaming.

I didn’t even think of the record labels upping their prices to compensate for the effects of streaming. That’s a great point.
 
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dan31

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Jul 22, 2010
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Once they have you the price will go up. The streaming services will have no choice but to pass along the increase. Maybe even tier pricing for certain artist in demand.
 
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microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
18,356
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Portugal
(...) Big surprise a few weeks ago Qobuz removed many albums we really enjoy. These files appear as "greyed out" on your Playlists. I contacted Qobuz and there was no reason given. They said they are waiting on Feedback from someone who controls this area. Since then Crickets! (...)

I find such issue extremely problematic. Physical recordings out of distribution can usually be bought used in Discogs, eBay or other source. How can we source such files?

The ownership of recordings is also something strange - in theory only the original purchaser owns them, as they are rented not definitively sold and renting is not transferable.
 
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Rensselaer

VIP/Donor
Mar 23, 2021
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I am not saying one is better than the other, but when you buy a vinyl LP, you own it, you can play it as much or as little as you like, you can sell it, and those rights to enjoy it as one wishes, on to someone else.
 

Solypsa

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Jun 7, 2017
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Seattle
www.solypsa.com
There are parallels in the video world. I never bought movies as I usually watch once and thats it ( maybe twice or even three times for the rare favorite ) but have been shocked at how much streaming current / popular releases cost versus the old rent a dvd days.

Maybe its just me but I feel that selection of arthouse and otherwise non-mainstream film has diminished ( or I don't know where they are... ) as well.
 
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spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
13,566
4,204
863
E. England
After a long time yo-yo'ing on the "to stream/not to stream" debate, I've ended pointlessly arguing w myself, and am sticking w physical media, incl BluRay/4K movies.
FOMO was driving my stagger twds "embracing" streaming (more like antipathetic acceptance), but I know that I'm happier accepting I'm a physical media person, even if I miss out some, or a lot, by not adopting streaming.
And after promising myself for some years to get more into Golden Age classical and jazz, and long forgotten movie gems being released on Criterion etc, 2022 is the year I deep dive into more Tone Poets and other Blue Note reissues, and the ocean of classical vinyl out there, before prices peak beyond affordability in a few years.
The Penguin Guide To Classical Music 1982 just ordered off EBay, digital just a promise of the future from that year.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 21, 2010
11,867
893
600
Manila, Philippines
Over the last 20 years I bought about 10,000 "casual" songs on iTunes. Well, Apple just killed iTunes on Mac as I discovered after buying a new laptop after 6 or 7 years. I was shocked to see that while everything backed up perfectly to my new MBP, my music including my rips and purchases from Beatport Pro and HD Tracks did not.

So this is where "convenience" has taken us. It's sad.
 
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dan31

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2010
831
239
393
SF Bay
I have only purchased 2 albums from HD Tracks. Everything else is LP or silver disc. I only stream from Spotify. I can’t see the streaming market getting any friendlier.
 

BlueFox

Member Sponsor
Nov 8, 2013
1,637
318
340
I was shocked to see that while everything backed up perfectly to my new MBP, my music including my rips and purchases from Beatport Pro and HD Tracks did not.
Why didn't the HD Tracks files get transferred? They are just files. I buy 2-3 new albums a week from HD Tracks, and have for over three years. Aside from the hard drive I use for music on my Lumin, I back the new files up onto three other hard drives.
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
6,907
2,509
603
Greater Boston
All my serious listening on the system is from physical CD. Streaming only via YouTube over laptop and heaphones.

I have about a thousand CDs, am drowning in music. Can't listen to it all. At least I physically own all my music.
 

Hi-FiGuy

Member Sponsor
Feb 24, 2015
2,011
556
285
Though it's not the majority of our listening pleasure, we do enjoy streaming. It can be very relaxing. To be clear, in this context what I mean by "streaming" refers to listening to Qobuz and Tidal, etc. I'm not here referring to streaming ripped CDs and Vinyl.

Big surprise a few weeks ago Qobuz removed many albums we really enjoy. These files appear as "greyed out" on your Playlists. I contacted Qobuz and there was no reason given. They said they are waiting on Feedback from someone who controls this area. Since then Crickets!

IMO, the streaming companies need to deal better with this issue. Some suggestions:

(1) A computer program could be written that would automatically notify us when - for whatever reason - they are removing a song or album from our Playlists.

(2) Perhaps the song they are removing is available by the same artist on a different album. IMO, they could supply a link to these other sources in their notification to us. We could press a link in our email and just add it to our Playlist. Or they could make a pop-up on their website to do the same thing.

(3) When deleted (greyed out) songs appear in your Playlists, it can effect playing the entire Playlist. At times, the Playlist goes into kind of a stall and begins repeating songs at random - at least it did for us. To repair this the greyed out songs had to be deleted from our Playlists. On our Nikki Parrot Playlists removing 5 albums of songs took about 20 minutes. Listening time was shortened. I ended just playing CDs.

Why can't this be automated for us? If Qobuz removed a song or album then they should also remove it from all our Playlists. They could transfer all these files automatically into another Non-Playable Playlist of songs. This way we could followup with them later on these songs ... and ask for them back.

This said, IMO there's no substitute for owning media. I own a lots of CDs and have just begun a vinyl collection (only 350-400 so far). While I like the numerous titles and convenience of streaming, owning media is the only way to know we will have music on demand. When we own the media, it can’t be taken away when rights run out or when it becomes unprofitable to keep in circulation. Yes, streaming is the current - ever changing - wave of the future. But we shouldn't throw out the baby with the bath water.

This may just be an age thing; I still like reading a real book too! :)
The short answer to your post is...money. Someone somewhere wanted more money.

Personally I am enjoying the snot out of streaming...while it lasts. At some point it is either going to go away or become considerably more expensive assuming the artists are getting hosed bad in this deal. If it evaporates I have a big enough library that my need to take up massive media purchases is very small.

I still enjoy reading books too, cant read a tablet. I do however enjoy audio books.
 

Rensselaer

VIP/Donor
Mar 23, 2021
158
90
170
66
Over the last 20 years I bought about 10,000 "casual" songs on iTunes. Well, Apple just killed iTunes on Mac as I discovered after buying a new laptop after 6 or 7 years. I was shocked to see that while everything backed up perfectly to my new MBP, my music including my rips and purchases from Beatport Pro and HD Tracks did not.

So this is where "convenience" has taken us. It's sad.
I bought many too, and downloaded cd's onto my iTunes list as well, but when I changed Apple computers only the iTunes I bought got transferred, those I recorded from my own CDs did not. Likewise, new contract (though this was a few years back) said Apple owns the tunes, I only rent them, and I can not pass them on to anyone. I got a number next to the song every time I played it, I think so many times then it goes (but not certain on that point). I haven't listened to iTunes in years so no idea if they still there and playable anymore or not.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 21, 2010
11,867
893
600
Manila, Philippines
Why didn't the HD Tracks files get transferred? They are just files. I buy 2-3 new albums a week from HD Tracks, and have for over three years. Aside from the hard drive I use for music on my Lumin, I back the new files up onto three other hard drives.
iTunes started as a music player and back then it was a utility to rip your CDs. They simply took that utility away now. I can reload my other tracks but I will have to do it manually. To say I am angry is an understatement. They have chosen to go with a closed system as shown by Rensselear's post. I'll be looking for a music player for the Mac with good music management. Sigh. Apple you have no loyalty to the people that made you.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 21, 2010
11,867
893
600
Manila, Philippines
I bought many too, and downloaded cd's onto my iTunes list as well, but when I changed Apple computers only the iTunes I bought got transferred, those I recorded from my own CDs did not. Likewise, new contract (though this was a few years back) said Apple owns the tunes, I only rent them, and I can not pass them on to anyone. I got a number next to the song every time I played it, I think so many times then it goes (but not certain on that point). I haven't listened to iTunes in years so no idea if they still there and playable anymore or not.
Mine transferred metadata only to download them again I have to do them seemingly one by one. The thing is I need to have the files on my drive or on my phone when I am out of town or coverage is bad. Who wants to listen to 24kbps when the network is loaded right? How is that for reason to own physical media or in this case simply having your own files to use. Streaming is a steaming pile of _____ in many instances outside of our control like that time a truck hit a pole in our street and killed our fiber line.
 
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rando

Well-Known Member
Sep 22, 2019
920
792
110
the iTunes I bought got transferred... Likewise, new contract (though this was a few years back) said Apple owns the tunes, I only rent them, and I can not pass them on to anyone. I got a number next to the song every time I played it, I think so many times then it goes

Disgusting!

Alternative meaning for the word rent comes directly to mind.
 

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