Techdas Air Force 3 VS Clearaudio Master Innovation

PeterA

Active Member
Dec 7, 2011
4,875
11
38
North Shore of Boston
#61

mikem

New Member
Mar 12, 2014
19
0
0
#62
"I now have the only AF 1.5..."

Do you believe your's will remain the only or do you think TechDas might offer the bearing and platter upgrade for other AF2s?
 

JackD201

[WBF Founding Member]
Apr 21, 2010
10,989
8
38
Manila, Philippines
#64
"I now have the only AF 1.5..."

Do you believe your's will remain the only or do you think TechDas might offer the bearing and platter upgrade for other AF2s?
It is being looked into by TechDAS :)
 

JackD201

[WBF Founding Member]
Apr 21, 2010
10,989
8
38
Manila, Philippines
#65

Maril555

New Member
Jun 27, 2014
49
0
0
#66
Not really, what I heard was a coloured sound almost without bass. Again, this is only in comparison to the AF2. I do not have much experience with TTs, so maybe this is how a 28K TT is supposed to sound in comparison to a 54K one. Maybe, it's a lack of suspension in AF3, and if you put on a proper TT platform, it would sound more neutral.
I have to respectfully disagree.
I recently bought AF 3 and currently have it with Graham Elite tonearm and Kiseki Purple Heart cart.
One thing I can assure you of, there is no lack of bass whatsoever, purely objectively and in comparison to my previous Galibier Gavia 1.5 TT.
In terms of neutrality- it might be colored in comparison to much more expensive and more "neutral" tables, but I haven't heard any glaring colorations so far.
I want to emphasize my limited experience with having other tables in my own system.
I heard AF1 in 3 different systems, and it sounds different in every one of them (obviously), so it's hard to draw conclusions about it's "neutrality"
 

PeterA

Active Member
Dec 7, 2011
4,875
11
38
North Shore of Boston
#67
I have to respectfully disagree.
I recently bought AF 3 and currently have it with Graham Elite tonearm and Kiseki Purple Heart cart.
One thing I can assure you of, there is no lack of bass whatsoever, purely objectively and in comparison to my previous Galibier Gavia 1.5 TT.
In terms of neutrality- it might be colored in comparison to much more expensive and more "neutral" tables, but I haven't heard any glaring colorations so far.
I want to emphasize my limited experience with having other tables in my own system.
I heard AF1 in 3 different systems, and it sounds different in every one of them (obviously), so it's hard to draw conclusions about it's "neutrality"
Maril, were you able to isolate the sound of the AF1 in each of those three systems? I have always found that to be extremely difficult, especially if there was no switching of source components and direct comparisons made. I have often incorrectly attributed something like "lack of bass" to an analog front end (turntable, arm, or cartridge) until the tonearm was adjusted for better VTA/SRA or cartridge loading was adjusted and then suddenly things sound much better. If the owner is unwilling to play around with it during the demo or simply has little experience with this, one can easily reach unfair conclusions. Then there is the distinction of bass "quality" versus bass "quantity". I have never heard the AF3, but I would tend to agree with you that it can not be highly "colored or almost without bass." That just doesn't make sense from such a serious design effort. I suppose it lacks some bass quality and extension compared to its more expensive sibling the AF2.
 

Maril555

New Member
Jun 27, 2014
49
0
0
#68
Maril, were you able to isolate the sound of the AF1 in each of those three systems? I have always found that to be extremely difficult, especially if there was no switching of source components and direct comparisons made. I have often incorrectly attributed something like "lack of bass" to an analog front end (turntable, arm, or cartridge) until the tonearm was adjusted for better VTA/SRA or cartridge loading was adjusted and then suddenly things sound much better. If the owner is unwilling to play around with it during the demo or simply has little experience with this, one can easily reach unfair conclusions. Then there is the distinction of bass "quality" versus bass "quantity". I have never heard the AF3, but I would tend to agree with you that it can not be highly "colored or almost without bass." That just doesn't make sense from such a serious design effort. I suppose it lacks some bass quality and extension compared to its more expensive sibling the AF2.
I never even tried to. I completely agree with you- if more, than one parameter of the system changes, then it becomes an exercise in futility.
And I agree with you on the other point- AF 3 is just a more economical version of AF 1 and 3, designed by the same person, and benefitting from a "trickle down" technology, implemented in more expensive model.
I doubt, Tech Das would have released a product with " great colorations and almost no bass"
My personal impressions so far, are fairly similar to all the AF 3 reviews, that I've read.
It certainly makes an impression of a highly engineered piece of equipment and the sound reflects that impression- well organized, refined and organic.
I don't want to mention all the "audiophile" descriptors- they are all there in spades.
And again, at this price point?
 
Dec 17, 2015
197
0
16
Moscow
#69
I have to respectfully disagree.
I recently bought AF 3 and currently have it with Graham Elite tonearm and Kiseki Purple Heart cart.
One thing I can assure you of, there is no lack of bass whatsoever, purely objectively and in comparison to my previous Galibier Gavia 1.5 TT.
In terms of neutrality- it might be colored in comparison to much more expensive and more "neutral" tables, but I haven't heard any glaring colorations so far.
I want to emphasize my limited experience with having other tables in my own system.
I heard AF1 in 3 different systems, and it sounds different in every one of them (obviously), so it's hard to draw conclusions about it's "neutrality"
Maril, congratulations on the new table, glad to hear, that you are enjoying it.
My comments were only in comparison to the AF2. Maybe “lack of bass” is too strong a statement, but the AF3 definitely sounded lighter than the AF2. Is your table placed on some sort of an isolation platform?
 

howiebrou

New Member
Jun 29, 2012
128
0
0
#70
Maril,

As a new owner of the AF3 (you, not me!) I would be very interested in your experience in terms of set up, arms and carts you have on and whether you have attempted to isolate the table given the missing suspension from the bigger brothers.

thanks

howie
 

Maril555

New Member
Jun 27, 2014
49
0
0
#71
Maril, congratulations on the new table, glad to hear, that you are enjoying it.
My comments were only in comparison to the AF2. Maybe “lack of bass” is too strong a statement, but the AF3 definitely sounded lighter than the AF2. Is your table placed on some sort of an isolation platform?
The table is on SRA Scuttle rack
 

Maril555

New Member
Jun 27, 2014
49
0
0
#73
Maril,

As a new owner of the AF3 (you, not me!) I would be very interested in your experience in terms of set up, arms and carts you have on and whether you have attempted to isolate the table given the missing suspension from the bigger brothers.

thanks

howie
With regards to the set-up- it's very straightforward and fairly easy. I like the ability to height- adjust 4 feet.
It also allows for a calibration of the belt tension- the initial part of the process is done manually, and then the rest of it accomplished electronically,
locking in correct speed for any given tension.
At the same time, it allows you to "play" with different belt tension values, something, I haven't done yet.
The air floating platter and suction pump is extremely quiet and vibration free (to a degree). I haven't experimented with the pump isolation yet.
As I mentioned in another post, the table is on SRA Scuttle rack, that should in theory provide a stable platform and an isolation from vibration.
Articulating armboards is a very flexible way of setting spindle-to pivot distance, and, as you know, there are 4 of them (imagine the possibilities).
TechDas can supply armboards for 9-10" arms, and a different size for 12" ones.
I have 10" Graham Phantom Elite on it now, and ordered an armboard for my 12" Reed 3P, that I had before.
I personally am very interested in comparing these two arms on the same table with the same cartridge (NS Kiseki Purple Heart).
Overall, Air Force 3 gives an impression of a very well engineered piece of equipment, something, that I cannot say about some other TT's, I had in my system previously.
 

howiebrou

New Member
Jun 29, 2012
128
0
0
#74
With regards to the set-up- it's very straightforward and fairly easy. I like the ability to height- adjust 4 feet.
It also allows for a calibration of the belt tension- the initial part of the process is done manually, and then the rest of it accomplished electronically,
locking in correct speed for any given tension.
At the same time, it allows you to "play" with different belt tension values, something, I haven't done yet.
The air floating platter and suction pump is extremely quiet and vibration free (to a degree). I haven't experimented with the pump isolation yet.
As I mentioned in another post, the table is on SRA Scuttle rack, that should in theory provide a stable platform and an isolation from vibration.
Articulating armboards is a very flexible way of setting spindle-to pivot distance, and, as you know, there are 4 of them (imagine the possibilities).
TechDas can supply armboards for 9-10" arms, and a different size for 12" ones.
I have 10" Graham Phantom Elite on it now, and ordered an armboard for my 12" Reed 3P, that I had before.
I personally am very interested in comparing these two arms on the same table with the same cartridge (NS Kiseki Purple Heart).
Overall, Air Force 3 gives an impression of a very well engineered piece of equipment, something, that I cannot say about some other TT's, I had in my system previously.
Sounds like you're onto a winner there with a myriad of possibilities. Congrats and keep us updated along your arm board journey!

Howie
 

gian60

Active Member
Apr 17, 2016
1,255
13
38
#75
Some news with new AF3 Premium?
If AF3 was far in the sound from AF2 like someone tested,AF3 Premium will be near and interesting