Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Christiaan Punter]

Hi @Christiaan Punter, thanks for posting this manual! Soooo, when listening via TAS should PCM and DSD buffers be set to Auto or is that only when listening via ROON. Previously, when listening via TAS, at Emile's suggestion I had them set at 4096 and 8192 respectively. Thanks!

Hi 2ndLiner, due to part of TAS now being built into the USB driver, the buffers should be set to AUTO both when using Roon and when using TAS.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

I have mine set to auto when listening to TAS. Christian's diagram showed the same but he pointed out that a new remote is coming

Hi Steve, indeed, they should be on AUTO. Switching profiles will be made possible from the new remote app but there is no planned release date for this just yet.

 

[wil]

Question for the Taiko braintrust in anticipation of upcoming network developments (Router, Switch, Network card):

If one has fiber optic > ISP's Modem/Router -- where the router can not be bypassed (like from ATT)-- will the Taiko network system perform as wanted coming out of the ISP's Modem/Router or will it only be optimal by bypassing the ISP's router and coming straight out the ONT?

 

[cat6man]

. For this reason I think q2, of 2022 is a realistic guess.

We hear you about folder tree search, and that will be in XDMS 2.0

Thanks Ed.

 

[gds7368]

I just sent an email through contact@taikoaudio.com requesting the update … with a copy of the Team Viewer ID and password … is that all I need to do to receive the Extreme update? Very exciting!

 

[oldmustang]

I just sent an email through contact@taikoaudio.com requesting the update … with a copy of the Team Viewer ID and password … is that all I need to do to receive the Extreme update? Very exciting!

That will do it.

Better check your machine -- it might have been completed while you were reading this. Team Taiko is often that fast.

Steve Z

 

[alwayslearning]

Taiko's new OS update, and to a lesser extent, customized USB drivers, have made a profound difference in my system and apparently many others. When something this significant comes along, it can make sense to revisit old assumptions and systems. For example, many have discovered that fiber is not helpful anymore and copper is preferred. Others are finding that switches either still contribute something positive or not.

Now that I'm done comparing the new OS to the old ComTrue driver in my Chord DAVE/SRC-DX setup, and finished comparing USB drivers and sample and bit rate settings, I moved on to a new frontier: ethernet cables. My network setup is pretty simple (no switches, no fancy power supplies):

Gigabit fiber into the home office with Centurylink-provided ONT > 1.5 meters of SOtM dCBL-CAT7 ethernet (shielded, with metal connectors) > Centurylink Greenwave C4000XG modem/router (this is one of the few Centurylink-approved modem/routers) > about 3-4 meters of basic Cat6e UTP ethernet from router to a wall jack > another 15-20 meters of CAT6e UTP through walls and attic to another wall jack near stereo > 2.2 meters Sablon 2020 ethernet (floating according to Sablon, with metal connectors) > Extreme

This morning I substituted a generic CAT5 UTP ethernet patch cable I had lying around for the Sablon. After some critical listening, I eventually substituted another generic CAT5e patch cable for the SOtM and listened to various combinations.

The upshot is that I still prefer the audiophile ethernet cables. But the differences are not big and not as big as I recall when first inserting the audiophile cables. Here is why I prefer the Sablon just before the Extreme:

- the Sablon imparts a weightier sound with noticeably better, weightier bass

- details/transparency is basically a wash (equivalent) between CAT5 and Sablon

- the Sablon has a very slightly darker tonality, but this is subtle

And here is why I prefer the SOtM between ONT and router:

- at first I was hard pressed to discern meaningful differences between the CAT5 cable and the SOtM

- eventually, I noticed some musically significant differences listening to streamed solo piano: with the SOtM, there was greater tonal density and ambiance retrieval; the cable revealed more of the harmonic richness produced by the piano's soundboard and these qualities created a more engaging, musically revealing experience

- these differences were either not as apparent or not apparent at all when playing files stored on my Extreme

I suppose one theory might be that the SOtM cable has a disproportionate impact on streamed music because the music signal itself is passing through this cable vs locally stored files where the music signal never "sees" the upstream SOtM cable.

I will say that the music was still very enjoyable through the generic cables and I'm not sure I would advise anyone to rush out and buy audiophile ethernet cables if they own an Extreme (but of course this is exactly the type of audiophile who would have already invested in such cables). In any event, given that Taiko's stated goal is "total immunity" from network noise, and in light of the upcoming Taiko switch, network card, and router, I wouldn't be surprised if the remaining advantages of various audiophile ethernet cables, switches, power supplies, etc. are rendered moot within the next year.

 

[oldmustang]

One more networking data point:

Back in mid-November Emile suggested the Amplifi HD as a cost-effective device to set up a low-traffic connection between ISP-provided modem/router and the Extreme.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...treme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/post-755528

At that time the new OS configuration and USB drivers were only a twinkle in Emile's eye. Unfortunately, at that time time the Amplifi HD was out of stock and back-ordered at the Ubiquiti USA webstore as well as the other retailers I checked. Since Ubiquiti's price beat many of the other resellers I put one on order and after a couple of weeks promptly forgot about it.

Fast forward to yesterday, and what shows up on my doorstep but a shiny new Amplifi HD wifi router. So, since I had it in hand I decided I'd give it a try.

Setting up the Amplifi HD using their free app available at the Apple or Android stores was very easy. Literally in minutes I had an audio-only feed from ISP-provided modem/router > copper ethernet jumper > Amplifi HD > 50' copper ethernet > Extreme, broadcasting a wifi signal specific to that branch only.

Well, once again (is there any doubt by now?) Emile is right when he states that this kind of reserved branch circuit is no longer necessary with the improved OS settings for the Extreme. I didn't hear anything I could put my finger on as a sound-quality improvement using the Amplifi, nor did I hear any degraded sound-quality. I cycled through all the reliable and very familiar tracks I use to test system changes and they all sounded the same as they do with my previous network configuration:

ISP-provided modem/router > copper ethernet > cheap-ass™® unmanaged switch > 50' copper ethernet > Extreme

So, barring any new revelations tonight (none so far) the Amplifi HD will go back in the box until my StarLink internet service is delivered (some day, Elon, some day) and I discontinue my DSL internet service.

Note: Is it just me, or does it seem the height of irony to call 12mbps down/2mbps up DSL internet "service"?

Steve Z

 

[Johnny Moondog]

Curious to know if this AmpliFi HD might help in another way. I have four devices on my LAN that are not related to the Extreme in playback mode.

1) Mac Pro: dedicated to PGGB offline remastering application
2) Synology NAS: music library not on the Extreme (periodically move albums on and off)
3) Apple TV: streams to Pioneer Elite plasma TV
4) MacBook Pro M1 (via Wi-Fi): work and personal computing

I've always wondered if it would be beneficial to NOT have the Apple TV on the same network as the Extreme. In other words, to reserve the path of:

ARRIS Modem —> Wi-Fi Router —> CAT6 —> Cheap-ass™® Unmanaged Switch —> 10m CAT6 —> Extreme

Have read that some folks do this with a subnet, but I have no experience or knowledge in that area. Have read some articles, but they somehow float above and past my otherwise brilliant mind. Would this AmpliFi HD accomplish that goal with a simpler setup process using the AmpliFi app?

 

[nuway]

Does any Taiko owners have configured their Extremes with two DACs. The old TAIKO USB Formula XHD version has been working flawlessly with my T+A MP3100HV (Amanero) drivers. I am having some drivers conflict with the New Taiko USB driver and T+A Drivers

 

[Zeotrope]

The OS update seems to expose the “qualities” of the ethernet equipment upstream of the Extreme. After removing them, I tried adding back the fiber and switches one at a time to hear what each was doing. The fiber made the largest negative impact. Adding a midrange harshness and loosing dynamic range. The switches didn’t do as much damage to the sound but they definitely color it and again reduce dynamics.

Here with the OS update plugging cat6 directly from the router to the Extreme gives the most dynamic and uncolored sound. However even though it was more hi-fi sounding, it was still not right. It left me not wanting to listen to my system as much.

I started out with the recommended settings for my DAC. Driver 4 with Roon set to 32bit. I lost connection to the music due to an unnatural edge in the midrange as well as the transients being smeared. Much like what I hear in pro-audio when the dither is not set correctly or when noise shaping dither is used.

It wasn’t until I tried the four different drivers that things started to make sense. Here with driver 1 and Roon set to 24bit, maximum buffer size set to yes, I get the best sound so far. It sounds natural again but now I have much better micro and macro dynamics, better separation between instruments and larger imaging then I did before the update.

Point being the upstream equipment, drivers and Roon settings make a huge difference in how the OS update sounds. If you aren’t thrilled with the update try the different drivers and Roon 24 vs 32 bit as well as buffer size.

The above is in regards to streaming only, correct? I cannot imagine network cables/routers have an effect on playing from the HD.
Personally, I don’t believer streaming will ever be as good as local files, so I don’t plan to stream. I will keep the Extreme connected to a WiFi over Ethernet device, for file transfer.

 

[Jpowell]

Does any Taiko owners have configured their Extremes with two DACs. The old TAIKO USB Formula XHD version has been working flawlessly with my T+A MP3100HV (Amanero) drivers. I am having some drivers conflict with the New Taiko USB driver and T+A Drivers

Not exactly a parallel situation, but I used to be able to run my Taiko version of the Aqua Formula xHD 2.0 driver (WASAPI) alternately in Roon with my exaSound ASIO64 e38 drivers (both the 2ch and MC versions). But when the custom Taiko USB driver for the xHD became ASIO (at least that's my naïve understanding of the situation), I could no longer switch over to the e38 ASIO drivers any longer. Worked with ED some on this issue, but we never found any solution. In my case, since I only needed the e38 for MC playback, I gave up and went a different route--setting up a separate Roon core on another computer, which I switch to only for MC playback. Essentially a completely different system for MC--not ideal, but works.
Jerry

 

[oldmustang]

The above is in regards to streaming only, correct? I cannot imagine network cables/routers have an effect on playing from the HD.
Personally, I don’t believer streaming will ever be as good as local files, so I don’t plan to stream. I will keep the Extreme connected to a WiFi over Ethernet device, for file transfer.

I understand your belief. However though I still hear and favor a slight -- very slight -- preference for local files played from my Extreme, I have also heard streamed files, particularly from Qobuz, that sound as good as anything I have stored on the Extreme. In some cases what is available streaming is higher resolution than the CD-rips that make up a large part of my local library. Many of those higher resolution files sound better than what I have locally.

Steve Z

 

[jelt2359]

The above is in regards to streaming only, correct? I cannot imagine network cables/routers have an effect on playing from the HD.
Personally, I don’t believer streaming will ever be as good as local files, so I don’t plan to stream. I will keep the Extreme connected to a WiFi over Ethernet device, for file transfer.

I have never used streaming (local files only), and yet before this update I had to invest in switches, LPS, ethernet cables, etc to remove harshness from the sound. It was also why a group here was using 'no network' (turning the network off) even for local files.

 

[aLLeARS]

The above is in regards to streaming only, correct? I cannot imagine network cables/routers have an effect on playing from the HD.
Personally, I don’t believer streaming will ever be as good as local files, so I don’t plan to stream. I will keep the Extreme connected to a WiFi over Ethernet device, for file transfer.

This seems to apply to all files, streamed and local. I have no idea why. Just reporting what I hear.
Here streamed hi-res files sound better than locally stored WAV files.
I'm in the process of trying some additional IT signal path options based on Emile's suggestions and will report back with any findings here later this week. This OS update really exposes what your IT signal chain is doing. Now simpler is better, which to me says we are on the right path.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

Now simpler is better, which to me says we are on the right path.

...I agree with this concept, macro-level, but would like to add that behind the scenes, smart people research, test and deploy *invisible* technical solutions, which
make it *look* simple.

It's great to remove some boxes, power supplies and cables, to simplify my chain...but I know Emile's team spent *a lot* of time making it look simple on the outside.

It very much reminds me of the ancient Kodak slogan: "You push the button, and we do the rest."

You tap your tablet, and we do the rest!

 

[ctydwn]

Anyone else still shaking their heads at the latest update? From first coffee I cannot wait for my ‘listening time’ when my wife’s work allows. Getting alot “hey that sounds good!”. Low / medium / high volumes streaming or local, just intoxicating. Usually, for me, an upgrade fades a bit as it becomes the new baseline. Hasn’t happened yet w this. Of course been great discovering new music too. Sorry, had to share w someone

 

[Steve Williams]

Anyone else still shaking their heads at the latest update? From first coffee I cannot wait for my ‘listening time’ when my wife’s work allows. Getting alot “hey that sounds good!”. Low / medium / high volumes streaming or local, just intoxicating. Usually, for me, an upgrade fades a bit as it becomes the new baseline. Hasn’t happened yet w this. Of course been great discovering new music too. Sorry, had to share w someone

It really is intoxicating.

 

[jonaiken]

Anyone else still shaking their heads at the latest update? From first coffee I cannot wait for my ‘listening time’ when my wife’s work allows. Getting alot “hey that sounds good!”. Low / medium / high volumes streaming or local, just intoxicating. Usually, for me, an upgrade fades a bit as it becomes the new baseline. Hasn’t happened yet w this. Of course been great discovering new music too. Sorry, had to share w someone

Indeed ctydwn, this update brings a freshness and naturalness to the music that is so amazing, allowing me to listen for hours and hours. Rediscovering my favorites and all the new music. Each listening session I hear new details adding to the enjoyment and the palatable presence brings the musicians in the room with me. Taiko Extreme owners are lucky and blessed to be afforded the genius of Emile and his team to bring a transcendent product to the market that defies and sets the standard for superior digital reproduction.

 

[cat6man]

my roon wants to update the roon core on the extreme.
no way, until you all tell me its ok

current version is v1.8, build 903