State of the industry - Roy Gregory Editorial

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 4, 2014
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...truer words were never spoken. I understand that most online presenters are amateurs, but here's a hint: watch your own videos and work on, um, er you know you guys, I've said it before, um, your, um, um weak points.

Thanks for the suggestion. I have not made videos.
 

stehno

Well-Known Member
Jul 5, 2014
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Here we are all over the map – as usual. It seems very few can even agree on the current state of the industry. With so many varying opinions and deviations, I’m compelled to offer my own.

I think the current state of the industry can be best summarized by two popular catchphrases: Critical thinking and preconceived narratives. For which I suspect one begets the other. But also in which one consists of an abundance and the other often times seems almost nonexistent. Both of which should encompass pretty much every significant aspect of this industry, including our levels of engagement i.e. due diligence, who the real industry leaders are by default, our listening skills, and especially sonic performance - supposedly the sole purpose for this industry’s existence.

As a side note and maybe even a case-in-point. At least in this context, these are not in-room videos per se. Rather these are in-room audio recordings. Audio recordings employing a less-than-perfect audio format (imagine that) that happen to include somewhat still pictures of a playback system.

And though in-room recordings are limited, there is still much valuable info that can be extracted. Including info about those incapable of giving these recordings any credence. If only they understood how forgiving they already are when listening to their own playback systems or when listening via headphones or earbuds or car audio. Yet, are somehow unable to extend such forgiveness toward in-room recordings. Almost as though their listening skills they’ve spent so much time training become of no value with in-room recordings. Go figure. See the two catchphrases listed above.
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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The video of your system is also representative of the state of the industry which is the topic of this thread. You are a small manufacturer discussing and spreading the word about your speakers on an audio forum and sharing a video demonstrating the speakers performance. You sometimes discuss your competition. You are putting the video out there for people to judge your product and market it. If this does not represent one aspect of the current state of the industry, I don’t know what does.

For me in order to be representative of something the relative dimension of the fact being described must be significant. I can't consider that a few youtube videos shown in WBF are representative of the state of the industry or sound quality achieved by its products. YMMV.

Youtube and videos are an important way of spreading information and marketing since long - for example Wilson Audio professionally do it since more than a decade. Nothing new here. Many other manufacturers also have been doing it also since long.

Sampling stereo sound with a mobile phone is a flawed and misleading process, IMHO it is stroke against the proper subjective appreciation of sound quality.
 

sbnx

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Mar 28, 2017
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Yeah, maybe i should start a webpage, “100WordReviews.com”. I doubt i get very many hits.
 
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microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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Generally I prefer to read. I can read faster than some guy can talk, vary my reading speed, and can reread if I find something interesting. Reading is active, it spurs my thought; video is passive, it consumes two senses and quells my thought. (...)

100% in agreement. Even more, for most of us this is an hobby, not a profession, where we select our objectives. Fast screening is a fundamental aspect of it.

I see videos for the quality of the speaker and enjoyment, not mainly for the content.
 
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MarkusBarkus

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Feb 7, 2021
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I have not made videos.
Tim: to refine my post: the "your own" in my previous post was NOT intended to imply this behavior was yours, although looking back, the wording could surely be read as such. It was intended for these videographers who seem oblivious to their own awkward elocution. I was actually agreeing with you for the most part.

Thank you for the generous tone of your reply. Best to nip these things in the bud: sorry for any irritation that post may have caused you. Cheers, MB.
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 4, 2014
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the Upper Midwest
Tim: to refine my post: the "your own" in my previous post was NOT intended to imply this behavior was yours, although looking back, the wording could surely be read as such. It was intended for these videographers who seem oblivious to their own awkward elocution. I was actually agreeing with you for the most part.

Thank you for the generous tone of your reply. Best to nip these things in the bud: sorry for any irritation that post may have caused you. Cheers, MB.

Thanks Markus, no worries.
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 4, 2014
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100% in agreement. Even more, for most of us this is an hobby, not a profession, where we select our objectives. Fast screening is a fundamental aspect of it.

I see videos for the quality of the speaker and enjoyment, not mainly for the content.

+1 I knew I could not be the only one.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
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Generally I prefer to read. I can read faster than some guy can talk, vary my reading speed, and can reread if I find something interesting.

I agree with this -- when I am at home. At home I find it annoying to listen to somebody talking or to watch a video of somebody talking.

But I discovered that in the car it is great to multi-task by listening to somebody talking. So if I'm not on the telephone while driving I am perfectly happy to listen to something else.
 
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bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
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I agree with this -- when I am at home. At home I find it annoying to listen to somebody talking or to watch a video of somebody talking.

But I discovered that in the car it is great to multi-task by listening to somebody talking. So if I'm not on the telephone while driving I am perfectly happy to listen to something else.

I don't listen to talking videos of audio equipment, find it very difficult. The only one I heard was your recent interview with Lukasz and that was because of you, but hope you don't make a practice of talking videos.

Audio talk videos have a long way to go to make the presentation interesting. Other non-audio stuff on YouTube can be much more exciting and entertaining in terms of presentation... The interesting presenters script well so that they are to the point, don't ramble, link good references quickly, add in clips to other interesting pointers. Time is a big factor, and tiktok, Instagram and short Facebook clips are getting popular for that reason as well
 
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BlueFox

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Nov 8, 2013
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The issue with videos is how they are being viewed. If one is watching the video on a TV attached to a stereo then that might be worthwhile to judge the audio quality. However, if the video is being watched on a computer, or tablet, then the audio quality is marginal, at best.
 

Tango

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Mar 12, 2017
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I hear all the time system videos dont do justice. But surprise surprise if you listen many enough videos and get chances to hear those systems in real often enough you will learn that what you hear on video has plenty enough indication of the real one. Of course the real one you can hear more in either direction both positive and negative. But most of the time if an ordinary mobile video of a system sound pretty good, the real one would sound much better. This is vice versa and is regardless of cone or horn speakers. Owner of system with video that sounds uninteresting to say the least normally deny video and say his real system sound so good in real. Yeah it probably sound better. But on the same token, the system with video that sounds very interesting, that system in real would likely be sounding freakin good way beyond the system I just said. Video is a good indicator if it is honest recording. Honest recording normally comes from the home made simple mobile phone recording. For me if you cannot get an interesting sound from a simple mobile phone. That system is not going to be near my reference level. Digital media including video on internet promote demand for all things all industry. System video itself is honest it is the video maker himself that might be dishonest to how he makes the video or dishonest to himself not accepting the reflection the video portraying his system.
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 4, 2014
4,051
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the Upper Midwest
I agree with this -- when I am at home. At home I find it annoying to listen to somebody talking or to watch a video of somebody talking.

But I discovered that in the car it is great to multi-task by listening to somebody talking. So if I'm not on the telephone while driving I am perfectly happy to listen to something else.

I don't have a mobile phone. I do listen to music in the car. Often classical but yesterday I did listen to this from a chip:


A Map of the Floating City EMI – 50999 679 29023
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
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For a thread about the state of the industry where those without exposure have openly said modern > vintage, I cannot see how these videos are irrelevant. As for randomness, I take responsibility for sourcing horn videos along with a few others here, and am filling the void to source modern ones. If anyone wants to step in under the assumption that I am biased and you are neutral, please feel free to post your modern system video choices.

Just excuses that this might not be a well set up modern system (the altec is certainly not optimised, has a small room and basic electronics, it is an A5, not like it is an 817). If the modern equipment had really advanced as much you think it has, these should have been a no-brainer. Currently they are, just not in the direction expected by some.

Here is Metallica

Egglestonworks with Nagra Jazz, Nagra Dac, Nagra amp, cool looks

Here is 7 watts of 300b Marantz on an Altec A5. There are better Altec Metallica, Queen, Black Sabbath videos on the Rock videos thread. I have maintained that the best rock I have heard by far, outside Mike's system, was on Altecs.
 

Diapason

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2014
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Dublin, Ireland
I'm guessing I should keep quiet and not say that the first video sounds better to me. The second seems to have weird sonic artefacts that I find unpleasant.

Of course, I'm browsing from the throne on my phone so...ya know.
 
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andromedaaudio

VIP/Donor
Jan 23, 2011
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Okay another one then .
Organ cd .
If you play this on a mdf horn ' they probably start walking by themself to the corner due to vibrations.

 
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bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
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London
I'm guessing I should keep quiet and not say that the first video sounds better to me. The second seems to have weird sonic artefacts that I find unpleasant.

Of course, I'm browsing from the throne on my phone so...ya know.

That's fine if you prefer the first one. Objective is to get people accepting video compares.

I would suggest streaming to something like Sonos or equivalent or listening on good headphones, good car speakers, etc.
 
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