Speaker Seeker

Chorus

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2017
46
7
90
Phoenix
Okay, here is the list I have now developed.

Brands
-Paradigm Founders 100-$ 5.5k-New
-Salk BePure2 -$ 6.2k-New
-SoundKaos -$ 6.0k New

DIY
Troel Purifi 6661 $4.0+Cabinet Build Cost Est. $2.0k = $6.0k New
Madisound Sasandu -Includes Cab. (You attached speakers + XO)= $5.3k New

Resale Temptations Currently floating about.

Used-Graham LS 3/6 Floorstander $5.5k Only listened to this brand at Gig Harbor Audio where they worship the brand.
Used-Salk Song3 Encore S- $3.5k Has a Be tweeter I like but have not heard the speaker otherwise. Will be at Axpona.

I have to be able to place the speaker within 18" of back wall so OB and ESL are out.
I listen to Acoustic, vocal and Jazz for the most part.
I listen 55-70db max
Room is well treated. Mid -sized.
Amp is Pass Labs 25INT so sensitivity should be 88+ and not dip below 4ohms.
I may bi-amp the bass once Ralph offers a Stereo option class D next year?

I have also been in touch with a custom speaker builder who uses Accuton ceramic mids, AMT Tweeters, two 8" woofers. $6k with top guts.
It will be a month before I can audition one of these but I am intrigued.

Open to other thoughts!
 

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ecwl

Member
Mar 20, 2021
58
48
23
Of the speakers you've listed, I've only listened to the Paradigm Founders 100 and Graham LS3/6. I think Paradigm Founders (not the other speaker lines lately) is excellent. I personally never liked the Graham LS3/6 sound but I've seen many people at the dealer raving about how much they love the sound so what do I know. To me, the Paradigm Founders is extremely transparent with lots of micro details and great macrodynamic. Although I guess you can say that about a lot of speakers. And the frequency response of the Paradigm sounds very neutral to me. So I'm sure it'll pair well with the Pass Labs. Whether you'll like the sound is so personal, only an audition would be able to answer that.
 

Gregadd

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
8,636
845
590
Metro DC
Cannot go wrong with Salk. They have impressed me at every audio show I have attended. That is regardless of room dimension/,
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
6,146
3,689
930
Utah
Okay, here is the list I have now developed.

Brands
-Paradigm Founders 100-$ 5.5k-New
-Salk BePure2 -$ 6.2k-New
-SoundKaos -$ 6.0k New

DIY
Troel Purifi 6661 $4.0+Cabinet Build Cost Est. $2.0k = $6.0k New
Madisound Sasandu -Includes Cab. (You attached speakers + XO)= $5.3k New

Resale Temptations Currently floating about.

Used-Graham LS 3/6 Floorstander $5.5k Only listened to this brand at Gig Harbor Audio where they worship the brand.
Used-Salk Song3 Encore S- $3.5k Has a Be tweeter I like but have not heard the speaker otherwise. Will be at Axpona.

I have to be able to place the speaker within 18" of back wall so OB and ESL are out.
I listen to Acoustic, vocal and Jazz for the most part.
I listen 55-70db max
Room is well treated. Mid -sized.
Amp is Pass Labs 25INT so sensitivity should be 88+ and not dip below 4ohms.
I may bi-amp the bass once Ralph offers a Stereo option class D next year?

I have also been in touch with a custom speaker builder who uses Accuton ceramic mids, AMT Tweeters, two 8" woofers. $6k with top guts.
It will be a month before I can audition one of these but I am intrigued.

Open to other thoughts!
Don’t know the brand I’ll go with the last pair in your pictures, they’re the most natural!

david
 

sbnx

Well-Known Member
Mar 28, 2017
682
538
205
Salk are good. Another, often overlooked, brand is Sonner. Right in your price range. Sound great and look great.
 

Cellcbern

VIP/Donor
Jul 31, 2015
917
444
385
69
Washington, DC
Okay, here is the list I have now developed.

Brands
-Paradigm Founders 100-$ 5.5k-New
-Salk BePure2 -$ 6.2k-New
-SoundKaos -$ 6.0k New

DIY
Troel Purifi 6661 $4.0+Cabinet Build Cost Est. $2.0k = $6.0k New
Madisound Sasandu -Includes Cab. (You attached speakers + XO)= $5.3k New

Resale Temptations Currently floating about.

Used-Graham LS 3/6 Floorstander $5.5k Only listened to this brand at Gig Harbor Audio where they worship the brand.
Used-Salk Song3 Encore S- $3.5k Has a Be tweeter I like but have not heard the speaker otherwise. Will be at Axpona.

I have to be able to place the speaker within 18" of back wall so OB and ESL are out.
I listen to Acoustic, vocal and Jazz for the most part.
I listen 55-70db max
Room is well treated. Mid -sized.
Amp is Pass Labs 25INT so sensitivity should be 88+ and not dip below 4ohms.
I may bi-amp the bass once Ralph offers a Stereo option class D next year?

I have also been in touch with a custom speaker builder who uses Accuton ceramic mids, AMT Tweeters, two 8" woofers. $6k with top guts.
It will be a month before I can audition one of these but I am intrigued.

Open to other thoughts!
Look at Bache Audio.
 

SCAudiophile

Super Moderator
Staff member
Sep 11, 2010
1,053
289
555
Greer South Carolina (USA)
Check out Legacy Audio Caliber XD with Wavelet. Other choices are Legacy Audio Focus XD with Wavelet or SE without.

All reasonable money and high on the music quality per dollar ratio scale.
 

Chorus

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2017
46
7
90
Phoenix
Okay some suggestions, thank you.

Now lets look at each one:

Legacy & SCA-
I am a bit down on this brand after seeing a club member buy the $80k model
along with a Wavelet. I sat down for a listen and had him play Roger Waters, Q-Sound ,Amused to
Death, Ballad of... So for those not familiar the sound stage at 2:20 into it a jaguar growl should
be heard about 4' right of the right speaker.

In this case the Jaguar move to 2 feet inside the right speaker.
Now these were set up by whoever Legacy uses to help buyers set things up correctly
after the sale in your home. So if they hire idiots, I have concerns.
Good concept. Not so good execution.

ddk-
That pic is of a Tannoy FSM which I sold. New ones must be better. Yes I set the bar pretty high.

GGads-
Salks are good. Will hear the new BePure2 at Axpona. Made my "Stop" list

Andro and other minors reading along-
Doorpressing apparently pushed the envelope a bit to far. I got a "1st Warning" letter from
one of the folks in charge. One nipple can cause quite a ripple around here.
That pic has been exorcised from this forum.

Cern-
Bache and Sonner Fans- Sonner will be at Axpona so I will stop in. Bache is not so
that east coast outfit is gonna be tough to consider. Thanks though. I mean hey, if you don't
have the funds to buy a booth, just get a truck and park in the lot. Unless your business
model is "Who gives a darn about growth". HaHa


Cecil-
Glad to hear some confirmation on my Founder experience, thanks. The Graham is likely
closer to what I sold than what i seek. So Graham is out. Maybe next time. Also the people
I have met that push it are kinda too snooty for my tastes. Funny thing Is the guy who makes
the customs I am most curious to hear is a graham. So maybe the name is okay.


Lastly I should say my money only goes toward value. Founders is too new to be commonplace on
the resale market but I am watching! Since most custom speakers have only a tiny fractional value at resale, I am
very cautious. So far all the HiFi gear I have bought was resold for at least break even when sold.
 

SCAudiophile

Super Moderator
Staff member
Sep 11, 2010
1,053
289
555
Greer South Carolina (USA)
Okay some suggestions, thank you.

Now lets look at each one:

Legacy & SCA-
I am a bit down on this brand after seeing a club member buy the $80k model
along with a Wavelet. I sat down for a listen and had him play Roger Waters, Q-Sound ,Amused to
Death, Ballad of... So for those not familiar the sound stage at 2:20 into it a jaguar growl should
be heard about 4' right of the right speaker.

In this case the Jaguar move to 2 feet inside the right speaker.
Now these were set up by whoever Legacy uses to help buyers set things up correctly
after the sale in your home. So if they hire idiots, I have concerns.
Good concept. Not so good execution.

ddk-
That pic is of a Tannoy FSM which I sold. New ones must be better. Yes I set the bar pretty high.

GGads-
Salks are good. Will hear the new BePure2 at Axpona. Made my "Stop" list

Andro and other minors reading along-
Doorpressing apparently pushed the envelope a bit to far. I got a "1st Warning" letter from
one of the folks in charge. One nipple can cause quite a ripple around here.
That pic has been exorcised from this forum.

Cern-
Bache and Sonner Fans- Sonner will be at Axpona so I will stop in. Bache is not so
that east coast outfit is gonna be tough to consider. Thanks though. I mean hey, if you don't
have the funds to buy a booth, just get a truck and park in the lot. Unless your business
model is "Who gives a darn about growth". HaHa


Cecil-
Glad to hear some confirmation on my Founder experience, thanks. The Graham is likely
closer to what I sold than what i seek. So Graham is out. Maybe next time. Also the people
I have met that push it are kinda too snooty for my tastes. Funny thing Is the guy who makes
the customs I am most curious to hear is a graham. So maybe the name is okay.


Lastly I should say my money only goes toward value. Founders is too new to be commonplace on
the resale market but I am watching! Since most custom speakers have only a tiny fractional value at resale, I am
very cautious. So far all the HiFi gear I have bought was resold for at least break even when sold.
Chorus: Agreed on Salks being good; I've always liked them as well. A brand I forgot to mention, Eggleston Works has always
sounded good to me all the way back to the first time I heard the Andra I model and since with the improvements in the Andra II,
then III and the next level-up Savoy SE.

Back to Legacy....I believe I know the club member in the Bay Area you are referring to and you are referring to the VALOR speakers
with Wavelet II process. That is the same model I've owned since early June 2020. With respect I'll say they are worthy of another
listen and you may have judged too quickly.

The playback scenario you mention on Amused to Death (SACD or LP, doesn't matter which) is one I am familiar with. It can be
reproduced at will and the cause is simple. I know here it's not speaker setup though I cannot guarantee the pair you heard were
perfectly setup as I've not been in that room. Wavelet has a mode in the VALOR-specific firmware call "OMNIO". It was originally called "Stereo Unfold Technology" and does real-time analysis to determine information that should be sent to the "SUT Array" in the top and sides of the VALOR speaker, not pushed out the front drivers. On most recordings it does an amazing job of recreating even more of the actual ambient information on the tracks being played.

There is a downside on any recording where the remastering or the post-record mix & mastering is already doing this through various
techniques. Of any recording with QSOUND I've tried, there is an inherent conflict in the what SUT processing is doing and what QSOUND
is already providing in the mix. QSOUND is the most pronounced of the things with which Wavelet's Omnio mode should not be used however there are a number of other discs I can cite from Dido, Bluetech, Future Sound of London, Phuturepreimative and others in many other genres where the engineer is creatively mixing in sense of space, additional reverb, etc...that conflicts to a lesser or great degree with Wavelet Omnio mode.

If I leave "Omnio" engaged when I am playing any track on the Amused to Death (SACD in my case), many (not all) of the well-known
effects on that album are out of place and/or not as expansive in how they play back.

That effect you mention in particular and quite a few others can be reproduced exactly as you describe by leaving Omnio engaged.

Turn off Omni in Wavelet with for the entire Amused to Death album, every single track, will be exactly as you would expect from other hearings
of it, possibly even better.
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
6,146
3,689
930
Utah
ddk-
That pic is of a Tannoy FSM which I sold. New ones must be better. Yes I set the bar pretty high.
That’s not the picture I commented on!
david
 
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Reactions: rando

Chorus

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2017
46
7
90
Phoenix
ddk,
Oh, as that picture was so unceremoniously removed it was not in the lineup now.
Now who could be offended by such a thing of beauty?
 

x1992

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2016
26
11
110
Dallas
Check out Audiokinesis Azel. I have heard the pretty similar Bienville Suite and other models. Adjustable speakers with great tone and no fatigue. I personally much prefer that brand to Paradigm's Persona line. Do not know Founders.
 
Last edited:

Chorus

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2017
46
7
90
Phoenix
Axpona changed my list of speakers I am interested in. Now in Is Audio Note, Spendor and Stirling.
Sorry I missed the swamers.
 

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