SMT Wing Diffusors vs. QRD Diffusors? Effective?

LL21

Active Member
Dec 26, 2010
10,550
2
38
#2
I have been in rooms which had these...would love to know more about them. The home listening room was custom built for a guy in the recording studio business.
 

caesar

Active Member
May 31, 2010
2,933
0
36
#3
I have been in rooms which had these...would love to know more about them. The home listening room was custom built for a guy in the recording studio business.
If you look at show pictures for MBL speakers, they always bring them along... I wonder how they work compared to the "researched" QRD diffusors.
 

LL21

Active Member
Dec 26, 2010
10,550
2
38
#4
If you look at show pictures for MBL speakers, they always bring them along... I wonder how they work compared to the "researched" QRD diffusors.
Yes, and there is a super high end store near Miami that has a room with them...I think Stereo's room uses some of these in the back as well.
 

LL21

Active Member
Dec 26, 2010
10,550
2
38
#6
Sound Experience, Miami Florida

SndExp-59.jpg
 
Aug 26, 2012
1,378
1
38
#7
Matts Odemalm is the gent who runs the show . Rarely travels to shows and is usually slow to respond. So I was surprised that he showed up at Munich . The Marten room was in part treated , and there was a discernible difference if one sat in the row that had the diffusion effect . You could easily tell by moving one row back . Contact him on <matts.odemalm@gmail.com> .
Retai; List :

price list Europe
Bass traps
V-4 std adjustble 45-100Hz 300euro
V-6 std "" 25-65 hz 330

Wing diffusors
V-wing std 370euro
Swing std 360 euro
Transparent v wing 700
transparent S-wing 800height 300
Wing 95 std 1200*600*95 150 euro
S wing paper std diy kit 120 eur
 

audioblazer

Member Sponsor
May 14, 2010
591
0
0
Malaysia
#9
Has anybody actually heard such dedicated room ? I have a friend who heard such room in taiwan & was told it wasn't good . However some manufacturers seem to like it eg Marten with such dedicated room built by SMT. Surely there must be some justifications for Marten to seek out SMT to build their super pretty dedicated room .
The diffusers & absorbers seems so easy to build eg Varitune V6 , 24x24x48" with a 6" gap which can be vary with a a plank on rail . Will prob build a few to try on my new dedicated room
 
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stereo

New Member
Sep 1, 2012
407
0
0
#10
Has anybody actually heard such dedicated room ? I have a friend who heard such room in taiwan & was told it wasn't good . However some manufacturers seem to like it eg Marten with such dedicated room built by SMT. Surely there must be some justifications for Marten to seek out SMT to build their super pretty dedicated room .
The diffusers & absorbers seems so easy to build eg Varitune V6 , 24x24x48" with a 6" gap which can be vary with a a plank on rail . Will prob build a few to try on my new dedicated room
Would be interested to know who you are referring to. There are only 2 dedicated rooms in Taiwan using SMT diffusers and Helmholtz resonators, including mine.
Only 3 people heard my room:
- the Magico dealer in Singapore, who based on the listening experience with the Magico Q1 decided to rebuild his full show room with SMT treatment, and to distribute SMT in Singapore
- the other owner of a SMT room in Taiwan (I doubt he wouldn't like it)
- one of his friend who wants to invest in a SMT room.

As in any room treatment, there is a big part of science, but also some art... and luck. You never know how it will sound before building it. But in a game of probability, you have much higher chances to get a poor result with a lot of other room treatment specialist (from my experience hearing tons of rooms before building mine).

Sure, you can build a Helmholtz yourself. Saving would be very limited, much less than the money you spent in a single of your cables (rather build your cables yourself, saving will be higher!). I prefer the convenience and piece of mind of getting something which has been tested and work (and the opening in the diffuser is a bit more complex than an adjustable gap...).
Good luck on building Wings diffusers yourself. Their profile is not so straightforward. Assuming you would get all dimensions right, I doubt you would save any money.
SMT wings diffusers are very unique, because they are the only one who work in the near field (unlike normal quadratic diffusers, they are not only spatial diffusers, they are also temporal diffusers). If you have a 17x 10meters, you can live with a RPG diffuser.... as they would work well if you sit more than 3-4meters from them. In a smaller room like mine, I can sit 60cm from the back wall without any problem. See the measurements of my room and a bit more explanation in the thread "new home for my magico Q1"
 
Aug 5, 2013
139
0
16
Stockholm Sweden
#11
Has anybody actually heard such dedicated room ? I have a friend who heard such room in taiwan & was told it wasn't good . However some manufacturers seem to like it eg Marten with such dedicated room built by SMT. Surely there must be some justifications for Marten to seek out SMT to build their super pretty dedicated room .
The diffusers & absorbers seems so easy to build eg Varitune V6 , 24x24x48" with a 6" gap which can be vary with a a plank on rail . Will prob build a few to try on my new dedicated room
Hello! I have tried to build a couple of varitunes myself and They dont work at all as good as SMT varitunes v-6 and v-4. I would strongly recommend to buy the SMT varitunes.You can even buy the varitunes in diy. I have a dedicated room and You can see it in My members gallery. As you can see I have the speakers close to the Wall with s-wings and I also have My listeningschair close to the backwall with w-wings, about 35-40 cm.

This is a pic from the swedish royal orchestra with 72 s-wings image.jpg

Statement from Royal Swedish Orchestra using Wing Gobos

”The acoustic design solution we came up with is, in summary, based on early

stage support by the SMT S-wings which, due to their wide frequency range diffusion with time delay and almost no absorption, creates a high degree of definition and direct communication in the early energy.

The S-wings create magic in the very early time range, I believe that this is key to the sonic impact of the complete system. We were able to move the panels really close to the musicians and the response was still very even. In the near field I get a feeling that they're acoustically invisible and create magic in the very early time range. In the far field the summing effect of the panels help keeping the the musical energy of our singers constant even if they move around in different directions in staged passages. Communication between sections of the orchestra is enhanced without losing direction and definition”

Krelle
 

LL21

Active Member
Dec 26, 2010
10,550
2
38
#12
Very very cool thread so far...good to read. Better to learn. Thanks everyone...
 

Mctwins

New Member
Feb 1, 2013
35
0
0
#14
Hallo!

I have S-paper wings and I must say I find it to be very efficient to tame the early reflections. I agree with Krelle and Stereo that it is better to buy Varitunes than DIY. The cost will almost be the same. Varitunes works and so do S-wings. Combine these two and you have a top noch acoustical treatment.

The SMT's wing concept is more of a time delay lines rather than diffusers(per say). The importance is to treat the first 0-30ms when looking at the ETC curve.

More info can be read in this thread "My room", specially when I put the Flower wings on the floor on post 165.
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/bass-traps-acoustic-panels-foam-etc/651132-my-room.html

The first picture is my twin brother(Bobecca) system:)

All I can say is that I am very happy with SMT concept.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
7,091
18
38
#15
as a fellow 'dedicated acoustically designed room' user, i have a few comments.

these diffusor products are reasonably priced enough, and challenging enough to build 'DYI' properly, that one should buy them as opposed to try to build them. even if you get the shape right, the material you use will likely have acoustic qualities different than these products. so DYI versions would have a considerable need to be tuned.

SMT products look great to me.

do you need help to decide what you need for your particular room? most of us do....some don't.

the 'heavy lifting' in any room acoustically is the lower to mid-bass; which these products have 'almost' zero affect on. even a Heimholtz can only somewhat knock down a peak, it cannot fill in a suck-out. your room needs to get that right first, and that is where the 'luck' (as Stereo calls it) comes in since there are so many variables in room nodes it is difficult to predict. you may need to change something 'big' (move a wall or other major thing) to get the bass to smooth out.

which is why a room can be full of these products and still have major issues.

using these type products to treat the higher frequencies is easy (if not cheap) compared to the bass, unless you are very lucky.
 

adyc

VIP/Donor
Jan 6, 2013
351
1
18
#16
These products are ideal for 3D printing. Save all the transportation cost. Anyone know the SMT dealer in Asia?
 

audioblazer

Member Sponsor
May 14, 2010
591
0
0
Malaysia
#17
Would be interested to know who you are referring to. There are only 2 dedicated rooms in Taiwan using SMT diffusers and Helmholtz resonators, including mine.
Only 3 people heard my room:
- the Magico dealer in Singapore, who based on the listening experience with the Magico Q1 decided to rebuild his full show room with SMT treatment, and to distribute SMT in Singapore
- the other owner of a SMT room in Taiwan (I doubt he wouldn't like it)
- one of his friend who wants to invest in a SMT room.

As in any room treatment, there is a big part of science, but also some art... and luck. You never know how it will sound before building it. But in a game of probability, you have much higher chances to get a poor result with a lot of other room treatment specialist (from my experience hearing tons of rooms before building mine).

Sure, you can build a Helmholtz yourself. Saving would be very limited, much less than the money you spent in a single of your cables (rather build your cables yourself, saving will be higher!). I prefer the convenience and piece of mind of getting something which has been tested and work (and the opening in the diffuser is a bit more complex than an adjustable gap...).
Good luck on building Wings diffusers yourself. Their profile is not so straightforward. Assuming you would get all dimensions right, I doubt you would save any money.
SMT wings diffusers are very unique, because they are the only one who work in the near field (unlike normal quadratic diffusers, they are not only spatial diffusers, they are also temporal diffusers). If you have a 17x 10meters, you can live with a RPG diffuser.... as they would work well if you sit more than 3-4meters from them. In a smaller room like mine, I can sit 60cm from the back wall without any problem. See the measurements of my room and a bit more explanation in the thread "new home for my magico Q1"

From what I know it's not your room. Yes I agree, room treatment is science + art + luck. I did get my room designed from a company in USA . I torn almost everythg off & took a DIY route which gave me better sound. Any issues? Definitely , at v low freq of ard 26hz
SMT DIY ? After seeing it in Munich , it's pretty easy to build . The cost of the varitune + shipping + tax will more than triple the cost . At a retail retail price of euro 340 ( as quoted ) is pretty affordable The shipping cost alone ( to Malaysia ) for 6 pieces by DHL is euro 1400 alone to airport , not home to home , coupled with the cost of building a container it's not cheap at all.
How much for me to build 1 in Malaysia ? Not more than euro 150. Will it be as good ? At that cost no harm trying to build a box 24x24x48 with a 6" gap to be tune with a plank on a rail- easy build for my carpenter
 
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Bobecca

New Member
Feb 1, 2013
5
0
0
#18
the 'heavy lifting' in any room acoustically is the lower to mid-bass; which these products have 'almost' zero affect on. even a Heimholtz can only somewhat knock down a peak, it cannot fill in a suck-out.
Hmmmm..

I cant agree with you here. The Varitunes can and will solve a suckout problem. Why, because we have done it in our room.
Please continue reading our thread in GS provided from Mctwins;)
 

Bobecca

New Member
Feb 1, 2013
5
0
0
#19

Mctwins

New Member
Feb 1, 2013
35
0
0
#20
From what I know it's not your room. Yes I agree, room treatment is science + art + luck. I did get my room designed from a company in USA . I torn almost everythg off & took a DIY route which gave me better sound. Any issues? Definitely , at v low freq of ard 26hz
SMT DIY ? After seeing it in Munich , it's pretty easy to build . The cost of the varitune + shipping + tax will more than triple the cost . At a retail retail price of euro 340 ( as quoted ) is pretty affordable The shipping cost alone ( to Malaysia ) for 6 pieces by DHL is euro 1400 alone to airport , not home to home , couple with the cost of building a container it's not cheap at all.
How much for me to build 1 in Malaysia ? Not more than euro 150. Will it be as good ? At that cost no harm trying to build a box 24x24x48 with a 6" gap to be tune with a plank on a rail- easy build for my carpenter
Well, no offence, but paying the shipping cost for a person like you isin't a problem. With that amount of equipment you have, you can, and will have money over for both the treatment+tax+shipping cost.

Just saying;)
 

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