Hmm, I'm waiting for the much needed Sanity And Mental Balance thread, as an antidote to this one.
What opinion dude? Do you have anything to add to the conversation besides throwing mud at everyone and derailing the thread?Oh please. Excuse me for voicing my opinion even if you think it is inappropriate. And others agree with me. You are the one that tries (without much success) to quantify a totally subjective topic in an objective manner.
This is exactly the type of unnecessary crap that shows you have nothing to say, and you can't ruffle anything on me !Also, I recognize I am not one of the chosen few. Sorry I ruffled your feathers.
Of course it depends on the person's abilities but I have to disagree with you in principal on this. Experience in this and any other field can be very objective. I believe I'm very objective when I comment on sound quality of systems and my judgment of "natural" sound and principles, it's all reality based and completely objective. The only subjective part is my preference for "natural" vs every other sonic types.
I only use "balance" in system terms not live music. I've never attended a live venue and thought to my myself that it was "balanced", don't see anyone else doing it either.
What always astounds me is the miraculous clarity and delicacy of the sounds. The closest I've heard to this is with live acoustic music. I'm convinced the best stereo system might optimistically get 25% of the way there.
I agree in as far as making a relatively convincing facsimile of live music (particularly smaller scale music), but my point is the actual experience of listening to the sounds in the natural world, like in a forest, is a soundscape that electronic reproduction can not at this point come close to reproducing. I think it's largely a matter of scale and everything that brings with it.We all have different reference systems and listening experiences. I actually think that some systems sound astonishingly convincing and that is reason to be optimistic.
Nuff said but stated in a far more eloquent manner.So why dread? I have truly enjoyed reading impressions of just how a given system approach conveys a sense of real, but I am increasingly turned off by seemingly personal and needlessly pointless arguing over the specific language and obviously biased equipment point/counterpoint one-ups. We are all biased, and our language is hopelessly inadequate to get to the point. In fact, it seems that the seemingly endless back and forth on the meaning of terms inevitably leads away from any useful dialog.
What is my point? Do members here truly want to argue about just how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
We are all biased, and our language is hopelessly inadequate to get to the point. In fact, it seems that the seemingly endless back and forth on the meaning of terms inevitably leads away from any useful dialog.
We’re in a new interesting territory now!It must be difficult to take on feelings of estrangement and dread when reading an audio forum. Maybe you are right that this is brought on by your encounter with a disease, OCD tendencies, or the frustration you feel with your stereo upon hearing a live Mozart opera. This forum is not the cause of those feelings.
I've never read any of your posts before this one, so I don't know if this typical, but you appeared in the middle of this thread to compain about how it is proceeding, or something, I"m not quite sure. Apparently some folks like your complaint.
Nonetheless at risk of compounding your disenjoymnet, I am going to push back on your generalized caricature of everyone and your statement about languge as hopelessly inadequate. You may find my comments suffering from the same afflication you describe, so think twice before reading further.
I don't believe we are all biased. I do believe we each have our own opinion, perspective and preferences. Bias typically suggests a preconceived, unreasoned or prejudicial tendency, inclination, feeling or view. I find the majority of forum participants generally to be reasonable and rational whether I like or agree with what they say. Many of us consider the forum as a way to share information, gather input on a topic, or as entertainment.
I do agree that music as we hear it live and from our stereos can be difficult to describe but I do not believe our language is hopelessly inadequate to the task. It strikes me as very odd that man would create something he cannot describe. There certainly is a broad vocabulary of agreed upon terms to describe the physical properties of sound. The is considerable literature from music critics describing a performance or concert. You may find those inadequate or not, but the writing continues in almost all tongues. The fact that such people are writing about music across the centuries suggests that doing so is not hopelessly inadequate to the job it attempts to do.
In audiophile world, there are regular attempts to describe what we hear from our stereos. The search for input from others on what they hear/experience from some particular piece of gear is almost a constant in forums. Imo, the squabbling over certain words is ultimately an attempt to understand what another is saying or to discover which words better represent one's views on what they prefer. Language matters. Of course there is the back-and-forth between individuals that occurs in any social endeavor or hobby - no reason to expect that goes away in audiophile world.
By and large we are attempting to communicate and express ourselves. I find it interesting that a solitary activity such as listening seemingly requires a social element - maybe that's human nature. Seeking agreement with or confirmation of one's own views is part of it, but if we all agree the forum will be incredibly boring. A willingness to expose oneself to the ideas of others - like them or not - is, imo, a sign of rationality, of overcoming or denying bias.
I do appreciate that you enjoy Mozart operas which are great fun - the equivalent of Broadway musicals. I don't know which is my favorite. I love the Letter Duet in Figaro and the grand wackiness of Die Zauberflöte with the Queen of the Night, the Darth Vader of Mozart's operas.
We’re in a new interesting territory now!
I don't know why anyone would object to this particular thread. Maybe the dissection of "balanced" could be a little over-cooked, but so what? If people are going feel like they might get their wings clipped when they try to dive into a subject, this forum will indeed end up very boring.David, do you mean in the way we think about reproduced music and describe it or the contentiousness of different opinions and approaches, or both?
There seems to be less acceptance or even outright rejection of certain language and the opinions or approaches of others. And people are getting more overt about it. This can lead to new ideas, growth, and learning, or it can turn people off. Right now it seems to be the latter.
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