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dallasjustice

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Apr 12, 2011
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#41
A local dealer friend has a pair of quad 2912 he will demo for me later this week. I thought it was one of startling realistic sounds one rarely hears, especially at an audio show. I was impressed for sure.
 
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Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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#42
Did anyone go listen to the quad 2912 with MSB? The piano was so realistic. I don't usually go for planar speakers. But those quads were great!
I did hear that 'TBM' piano recording, which I have in CD, SACD, 33rpm, and 45rpm.....and a redbook AND dsd file of too. I prefer it in my system on my Trinity dac.....but the MSB sounded great. that recording is maybe lacking in soul (like most TBM recordings), but it has amazing sound on any system.

and maybe that MSB V Diamond with the Galaxy clock would sound better in my system than the Trinity if fed with my CAPSv4 Pipeline instead of the transport he was using.

I was disappointed that he could only play redbook. you bring a $50k dac to the show and have no hirez to play. bummer! I wanted to have a sense of the MSB on hirez compared to the Nadac and Lampizator GG.
 

wisnon

Active Member
Dec 12, 2011
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#43
Audio Tekne makes superb products. It has been run by the same one man, with a distinct vision. Very similar story and product culture to Kondo and Shindo.

His products are very little known outside Japan.
Mr Imai-San. Venerable.
 

wisnon

Active Member
Dec 12, 2011
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#44
A local dealer friend has a pair of quad 2912 he will demo for me later this week. I thought it was one of startling realistic sounds one rarely hears, especially at an audio show. I was impressed for sure.
Have you heard piano on Heil drivers. Not the ESS stuff, the BIG heil.
 

asiufy

Member Sponsor
Jul 8, 2011
2,780
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San Diego, CA
almaaudio.com
#45
Mike,

You're welcome to visit the store, and check out the MSB in more "familiar" surroundings (darTZeel+Evolution MM3) :) You can then play any hi-res or LP! And we're working on getting some tape in there too! :)

Was the transport being used MSB's own? UMT Plus? That's a *good* transport, and it'll rival most good servers.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
7,138
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#46
Mike,

You're welcome to visit the store, and check out the MSB in more "familiar" surroundings (darTZeel+Evolution MM3) :) You can then play any hi-res or LP! And we're working on getting some tape in there too! :)

Was the transport being used MSB's own? UMT Plus? That's a *good* transport, and it'll rival most good servers.
I'm not sure that he specified which transport he had.

I mentioned to (I think it was Vince) the guy that I had spoken to you about the Diamond V and he volunteered to send you (or to me through you) the Diamond V w/Galaxy for me to hear. I was impressed by what I heard but like I said, no high rez at the show is frustrating......that's why you come to a show. tire kickers might not care, but seriously interested people in that product would want to hear hirez at the show.
 
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dallasjustice

Member Sponsor
Apr 12, 2011
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#48
cool, be curious to hear your thoughts DJ. no crossover becomes addictive...
It may be one of those things where I may not have had a taste for it years ago. But now . . .

I also am much more adavanced in my subwoofer integration skills than before. So planars are less undesirable in that area for me now.
 

LL21

Active Member
Dec 26, 2010
10,573
3
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#49
I did hear that 'TBM' piano recording, which I have in CD, SACD, 33rpm, and 45rpm.....and a redbook AND dsd file of too. I prefer it in my system on my Trinity dac.....but the MSB sounded great. that recording is maybe lacking in soul (like most TBM recordings), but it has amazing sound on any system.

and maybe that MSB V Diamond with the Galaxy clock would sound better in my system than the Trinity if fed with my CAPSv4 Pipeline instead of the transport he was using.

I was disappointed that he could only play redbook. you bring a $50k dac to the show and have no hirez to play. bummer! I wanted to have a sense of the MSB on hirez compared to the Nadac and Lampizator GG.
Hi Mike,

Might be an unfair question, but what did you in particular prefer about your system vs the Quads? I can imagine a legitimate answer would be 'everything' given your system...but in my case, i nearly bought the Quads and did a shoot out with SF Guarneri, small and big Quad ESLs, the SF Amati, SF Strad and Maxx II.

I was very suprised at how much the SF Guarneri and smaller Quad sounded very very very alike. And it was mainly on the element of WEIGHT and SCALE where the Maxx II and Strad really pulled away from the fantastic Quads, although i also recognize in the case of the Strad, you really had to have remarkably powerful current to ensure you max'd out their speed, alacrity to try to keep pace with the inherently faster Quad.

So for me, it is weight/scale-power where I felt i needed something else...otherwise, i find the Quad a beguiling speaker with an amazing combination of alacrity, detail, nuance...and yet tonal purity with almost no sense of artifice.
 
May 30, 2010
14,163
96
48
Portugal
#50
A local dealer friend has a pair of quad 2912 he will demo for me later this week. I thought it was one of startling realistic sounds one rarely hears, especially at an audio show. I was impressed for sure.
What Quad's do, they do it perfectly. The problem is what they don´t do and do not want to do ...

Long time ago I could increase their bass and dynamics using them in double pairs as SME use in their very large room - a double L arrangement, with the second pair perpendicular to the main speakers, but my current room is not wide enough for this arrangement - you need at less 18 feet width for this.

They would be a nice candidate to use the Devialet's integral customizable filters, but I still did not have the time to try it.
 
May 30, 2010
14,163
96
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Portugal
#51
Hi Mike,

Might be an unfair question, but what did you in particular prefer about your system vs the Quads? I can imagine a legitimate answer would be 'everything' given your system...but in my case, i nearly bought the Quads and did a shoot out with SF Guarneri, small and big Quad ESLs, the SF Amati, SF Strad and Maxx II.

I was very suprised at how much the SF Guarneri and smaller Quad sounded very very very alike. And it was mainly on the element of WEIGHT and SCALE where the Maxx II and Strad really pulled away from the fantastic Quads, although i also recognize in the case of the Strad, you really had to have remarkably powerful current to ensure you max'd out their speed, alacrity to try to keep pace with the inherently faster Quad.

So for me, it is weight/scale-power where I felt i needed something else...otherwise, i find the Quad a beguiling speaker with an amazing combination of alacrity, detail, nuance...and yet tonal purity with almost no sense of artifice.
Lloyd,

Curiously IMHO Quad ESL63 and new types can have scale, but unfortunately not weight. It is a point where they are different from the SF Guarneri.
Tube mono Audio Research amplifiers connected to Quad's with Transparent Audio top cables was a match made in heaven. I could have stayed there. ;)
 

LL21

Active Member
Dec 26, 2010
10,573
3
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#52
Lloyd,

Curiously IMHO Quad ESL63 and new types can have scale, but unfortunately not weight. It is a point where they are different from the SF Guarneri.
Tube mono Audio Research amplifiers connected to Quad's with Transparent Audio top cables was a match made in heaven. I could have stayed there. ;)
I agree! i heard the Quads with ARC Ref monos and TA cable many years ago. But it was the weight of the SF Strads where i found a strong preference over the Quads. I was not able to get the scale to match the SF Strads, but between weight and scale, i would say my recollection is that scale was superior with Strads, but the Strad weight was far superior (imho).
 

LL21

Active Member
Dec 26, 2010
10,573
3
38
#53
What Quad's do, they do it perfectly. The problem is what they don´t do and do not want to do ...

Long time ago I could increase their bass and dynamics using them in double pairs as SME use in their very large room - a double L arrangement, with the second pair perpendicular to the main speakers, but my current room is not wide enough for this arrangement - you need at less 18 feet width for this.

They would be a nice candidate to use the Devialet's integral customizable filters, but I still did not have the time to try it.
The big "if only..." in high end audio. "If only" we could get panels to have serious heavy-weight scale and bass...without being the size of entire walls. If only they did not have to sit so far out from the rear wall that they also end up taking up so much room...;)

Panels do have (for me) a magic that is [almost] irresistible...but only almost...because of weight/scale and sheer ultimate slam which are more important to me.
 

LL21

Active Member
Dec 26, 2010
10,573
3
38
#54
...Long time ago I could increase [Quad panels] bass and dynamics using them in double pairs as SME use in their very large room - a double L arrangement, with the second pair perpendicular to the main speakers, but my current room is not wide enough for this arrangement - you need at less 18 feet width for this....
Interesting...are you saying you are effectively driving 4 speakers in the room? Did you drive your preamp to 2 stereo amps and then just drive each pair of speakers off one of the amps?

how did this end up comparing to your big Soundlabs? Or the big Aidas/Wilsons which i know you've heard extensively?
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
7,138
58
48
#55
Hi Mike,

Might be an unfair question, but what did you in particular prefer about your system vs the Quads? I can imagine a legitimate answer would be 'everything' given your system...but in my case, i nearly bought the Quads and did a shoot out with SF Guarneri, small and big Quad ESLs, the SF Amati, SF Strad and Maxx II.

I was very suprised at how much the SF Guarneri and smaller Quad sounded very very very alike. And it was mainly on the element of WEIGHT and SCALE where the Maxx II and Strad really pulled away from the fantastic Quads, although i also recognize in the case of the Strad, you really had to have remarkably powerful current to ensure you max'd out their speed, alacrity to try to keep pace with the inherently faster Quad.

So for me, it is weight/scale-power where I felt i needed something else...otherwise, i find the Quad a beguiling speaker with an amazing combination of alacrity, detail, nuance...and yet tonal purity with almost no sense of artifice.
well.....I was really speaking to my own estimation of how the MSB V Diamond might compare to my Trinity dac playing redbook. and just doing my own 'best guess' of how to listen around the two different systems. I qualified my comments such as to admit that the MSB might better the Trinity dac in my system if I could actually compare it directly. so my comments were not strongly put.

but then you ask about how I actually compare the two systems, particularly the Quads/MSB amp compared to my Evolution Acoustics MM7/darTZeel. i'll try to do that as best I can.

my opinion is that the MM7's particularly match the Quads at their strengths of seamlessness, transparency and purity of mid range (when the requisite efforts are made to get them optimized which is a formidable task) with their ribbon tweeter and ceramic mids and woofers. people listening to my system often make that comparison between planers, electrostats and the MM7's on these issues....seamlessness and transparency. but the easier load of the MM7's allow for a much higher 'jump' factor and the ability of -4- 11" woofers (not talking here about the subwoofer towers) per side allow for much greater weight and snap through the mid bass. drum kits, pianos, any sort of vocal all go to another level on the MM7's. it matches the coherence of the Quad. here is where the Trinity's way with piano is remarkable and IHHO unique in terms of overcoming the worst of PCM's aberrations and artifacts and allowing the piano to be pure of tone. I did not hear that through the MSB on the Quads to the same degree that I hear on the Trinity in my system....even though in the opinion of the MSB rep that was the strength of the MSB (and the Quads too for that matter as you mention).

of course, in the bottom octaves it is no contest on any level. and how to deal with things like the dart monos, dart preamp, the Equi=tech and the room is hard to quantitate. it all matters.

YMMV, just my own opinion, and all that.

the Quads are wonderful speakers which have a special magic in smaller scale systems....and it's not really fair to compare them to the MM7's. almost any other (even uber level) speaker would allow the Quads more in the way of trade-offs.

again; IMHO.
 
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wisnon

Active Member
Dec 12, 2011
2,528
20
38
#56
well.....I was really speaking to my own estimation of how the MSB V Diamond might compare to my Trinity dac playing redbook. and just doing my own 'best guess' of how to listen around the two different systems. I qualified my comments such as to admit that the MSB might better the Trinity dac in my system if I could actually compare it directly. so my comments were not strongly put.

but then you ask about how I actually compare the two systems, particularly the Quads/MSB amp compared to my Evolution Acoustics MM7/darTZeel. i'll try to do that as best I can.

my opinion is that the MM7's particularly match the Quads at their strengths of seamlessness, transparency and purity of mid range (when the requisite efforts are made to get them optimized which is a formidable task) with their ribbon tweeter and ceramic mids and woofers. people listening to my system often make that comparison between planers, electrostats and the MM7's on these issues....seamlessness and transparency. but the easier load of the MM7's allow for a much higher 'jump' factor and the ability of -4- 11" woofers (not talking here about the subwoofer towers) per side allow for much greater weight and snap through the mid bass. drum kits, pianos, any sort of vocal all go to another level on the MM7's. it matches the coherence of the Quad. here is where the Trinity's way with piano is remarkable and IHHO unique in terms of overcoming the worst of PCM's aberrations and allowing the piano to be pure of tone. I did not hear that through the MSB on the Quads to the same degree that I hear on the Trinity in my system....even though in the opinion of the MSB rep that was the strength of the MSB.

of course, in the bottom octaves it is no contest on any level. and how to deal with things like the dart monos, dart preamp, the Equi=tech and the room is hard to quantitate. it all matters.

YMMV, just my own opinion, and all that.

the Quads are wonderful speakers which have a special magic in smaller scale systems....and it's not really fair to compare them to the MM7's. almost any other (even uber level) speaker would allow the Quads more in the way of trade-offs.

again; IMHO.
Yes, Herve's Monoblocs are outrageous!
 

dallasjustice

Member Sponsor
Apr 12, 2011
2,090
0
0
Dallas, Texas
#57
I hear what you are saying and I appreciate you sharing your experience with quads. I wouldn't be interested in a dynamically limited speaker if I didn't feel comfortable that I have an excellent solution to overcome that particular limitation.

What Quad's do, they do it perfectly. The problem is what they don´t do and do not want to do ...

Long time ago I could increase their bass and dynamics using them in double pairs as SME use in their very large room - a double L arrangement, with the second pair perpendicular to the main speakers, but my current room is not wide enough for this arrangement - you need at less 18 feet width for this.

They would be a nice candidate to use the Devialet's integral customizable filters, but I still did not have the time to try it.
 
May 30, 2010
14,163
96
48
Portugal
#58
I hear what you are saying and I appreciate you sharing your experience with quads. I wouldn't be interested in a dynamically limited speaker if I didn't feel comfortable that I have an excellent solution to overcome that particular limitation.
The intrinsic limitation is still in the treble/medium dynamics. People used to dynamic box speakers must consider it seriously. Also, those having rooms with considerable absorption should consider that these rooms need a lot of power and panel excursion. IMHO only trying them in your room you will have an answer.
 
May 30, 2010
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Portugal
#59
Interesting...are you saying you are effectively driving 4 speakers in the room? Did you drive your preamp to 2 stereo amps and then just drive each pair of speakers off one of the amps?

how did this end up comparing to your big Soundlabs? Or the big Aidas/Wilsons which i know you've heard extensively?

No, the speakers were both driven by the same amplifier - at that time mostly a Cello Duet. The Audio Research VT 150's were used with single Quad's.

The Quad's in double L could play string quintets and small vocals, such as ancient music, as no other speaker I have seen. As I said once, your neighbor apartment became the stage, and the purity of the sound and natural dynamics created a feeling of re-being there as no other.

The Aida's could have most of this purity, when properly matched. Unfortunately I did not like the combination with my VTL 750's and my decision was to keep the SoundLab's - a great speaker but without the purity of the Quad's. Although when used with the DatZeel NH108 their string tone is very close to the references. And the scale and bass of the SoundLabs with the Devialet's 400 is astounding!
 
May 30, 2010
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#60

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