Reality is Cruel : Cybershaft new Ultimate OCXO 10M Clocks Shootout OP20 vs OP17

[Macattack]

I happen to know there is a very nice Shunyata Alpha CLOCK 75 cable for sale on USAudiomart. (Shameless plug)

 

[SCAudiophile]

I happen to know there is a very nice Shunyata Alpha CLOCK 75 cable for sale on USAudiomart. (Shameless plug)

But it works (the shameless plug) so go for it!

The Alpha CLOCK75s and 50s definitely are state of the art in their performance. Only way to beat them IMO is the Sigma.

 

[Tintin]

The 'upgrade' is the fit and finish of the Grandioso case works and possibly the quality of the Esoteric power supplies but sonically, i.e.
musically where it matters the G1 is not 3X the sonic performance of the OP21A with separate PSU.

Thank you for your feedback.
Yes, it is impossible for G1 to be that great; 3X against OP21A.
I would hope for 30% to justify the purchase.
Unfortunately, we do not have Cybershaft distributor in Thailand, so it is difficult for future upgrade and perhaps services.
That’s why, I consider Esoteric clock if it is somewhat better against the competitor.

 

[oldmustang]

Thank you for your feedback.
Yes, it is impossible for G1 to be that great; 3X against OP21A.
I would hope for 30% to justify the purchase.
Unfortunately, we do not have Cybershaft distributor in Thailand, so it is difficult for future upgrade and perhaps services.
That’s why, I consider Esoteric clock if it is somewhat better against the competitor.

Cybershaft sells direct. You should contact them if interested.

Steve Z

 

[Jpspock]

Thank you for your feedback.
Yes, it is impossible for G1 to be that great; 3X against OP21A.
I would hope for 30% to justify the purchase.
Unfortunately, we do not have Cybershaft distributor in Thailand, so it is difficult for future upgrade and perhaps services.
That’s why, I consider Esoteric clock if it is somewhat better against the competitor.

And perhaps 30% les...

 

[Tintin]

Cybershaft sells direct. You should contact them if interested.

Steve Z

I emailed to Kenji san a few times. He is very supportive. Just me that still reluctant to move forward.

 

[stevebythebay]

I emailed to Kenji san a few times. He is very supportive. Just me that still reluctant to move forward.

Just received my OP21A and external LPS. Been in for less than 24 hours and it’s already quite obviously an eye/ear opener in all the right ways. Using interim clock cables from Blue Jeans while awaiting Shunyata Sigma ones.

Based on your system, I’d say it will be a worthy investment. Kenji tells me it won’t achieve optimal performance for a week, based on when he removed it from power/testing/certification until I plugged it in. I’ve also got it clocking my switch.

 

[Tintin]

Just received my OP21A and external LPS. Been in for less than 24 hours and it’s already quite obviously an eye/ear opener in all the right ways. Using interim clock cables from Blue Jeans while awaiting Shunyata Sigma ones.

Based on your system, I’d say it will be a worthy investment. Kenji tells me it won’t achieve optimal performance for a week, based on when he removed it from power/testing/certification until I plugged it in. I’ve also got it clocking my switch.

Wow, congratulations on sound improvement. Please tell me your impression of the OP21A purely on the network switch, if you get a chance as I am planning on buying SOTM network switch which has clock input as well.

Many thanks in advance.

 

[stevebythebay]

It will be some time be fore I will assess the value of using the OP21A in conjunction with the switch. Even after burn in I’ll likely receive new clock cables. I might test with/without the OP21A before making that move. For the moment the system sound is evolving as the clock slowly settles in.

 

[Tintin]

It will be some time be fore I will assess the value of using the OP21A in conjunction with the switch. Even after burn in I’ll likely receive new clock cables. I might test with/without the OP21A before making that move. For the moment the system sound is evolving as the clock slowly settles in.

No hurry. Just to keep it in my wishlist if it is worth my network switch upgrade.

As I notice you have a Denali like me, you may be interested.
Now I prioritize my focus to an upgrade from Shunyata Denali+Sigma HC to Everest+Omega XC. Just heard the Omega XC a few days ago. It is such a wonderful cable. Many people in other forum report that upgrading to Everest even give the bigger leap than the cable.

 

[stevebythebay]

Thanks re: Shunyta info. I've actually ordered a replacement for my old HC. On Caelin's recommendation, I'm awaiting a Sigma v2 XC which is compatible with the Everest. The Everest will come later. I've recently ordered a bunch of replacement interconnects and power cables from Shunyata that take precedence over the Everest. Even though much of it is from Synergistic Research and was top of their line, such as Galileo AES/EBU and XLR, as well as active C-T-S power cables, I've opted to outfit my system with new or soon to be cables from Shunyata. Again, Caelin insistent that I focus on digital cables in particular. Of new items will be the Omega QR-s power cable for my dCS Vivaldi DAC. And I've had great success with the Venom V14 Digital on my Uptone JS-2 LPS and the new Cybershaft LPS. So, I'll be using another for my dCS Vivaldi Clock and even the dCS Vivaldi Upsampler (not using USB, just Ethernet). Speaking of Ethernet, I've been quite happy with a pair of Shunyata Sigma's but expect to upgrade these to Omega's. Maybe before year's end I'll get the Everest. I know that many people are high on its performance. I just need to find another piggy bank to break

 

[Scaena1]

I can imagine how good the OP-21 must be. I am a big fan of Kenji's work. Used to own an OP-14, before upgrading to the Mutec REF10, and now to the REF10 SE120.

I'm happy where I am, but it's good to have multiple options for outstanding reference clocks!

How would you compare the ref 10 to the ref 10 se120?

 

[austinpop]

How would you compare the ref 10 to the ref 10 se120?

Luckily I wrote it in a recent article!

See https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/review-innuos-phoenixusb-reclocker-r906/

Scroll down to the section “Enter the MUTEC REF 10 SE 120 clock.”

 

[Scaena1]

Thank you, Austinpop. We have used the Mutec Ref10 with Vivaldi since its introduction with great results.
The improvement offered by the se120 sounds like it is substantial.

 

[Samsoum]

The comparison was done carefully and systematically today with three very experienced audiophiles and myself. A cheap GPS disciplined clock (on the far right of the photo) was added as a reference.
View attachment 60613
All listeners took turn to sit in the best position and ran through similar routine. First without any external 10M reference clock, we were free to choose our music, then GPSD clock was added, followed by Mutec SE-120, OP20 Limited and OP21A. Finally, the 10MHz clock was removed for the last piece.

We have similar impression. GPSD clock added more life to the music, more dynamic and more focus. Considering its price, around US$120, it is a best buy.

Mutec Ref 10 SE-120 is better than GPSD clock. It has a warmer and fuller sound. Bass is clearly improved. The result is pleasing and I can live with it forever. One listener particularly likes this sound. He is the owner of the Mutec SE-120 tested.

Cybershaft OP20 Limited2 has similar level of performance as Mutec but has a different character. OP20 sounds more lively and dynamic. Bass is not as strong as Mutec. In general, it is brighter than Mutec but has better focus and soundstage.

Cybershaft OP21A has the best of both worlds. It has the warm of Mutec and dynamic of OP20. The image and details are the best in the group. The difference is easily detected, not subtle. All of us agree it is the best performer.

After listening to OP21A for a while, the 10M reference was disconnected. The sound without it is plain and flat. It is like someone cover the speaker a thick cloth.

I can't speak for other digital systems, but if you use full stack of dCS Vivaldi system, the price of OP21A is around 10% of Vivaldi system and it improves the sound by 50%. You can do the maths. In fact, even OP20 and Mutec SE-120 enhance the sound significantly, the one who doesn't use a proper 10M reference clock on his Vivaldi system is not revealing the full potential of his gear..

I have the gpsdo clock.
I installed antenna, now have gps lock green
Run flashing green, alm red, is it working?
Is the antenna need to be outside or inside is ok? Thks

 

[SCAudiophile]

Sounds like it is going in and out of lock state but I don't have much experience with them.

 

[drunkenspyder]

I posted some of this same info in the Best Clock thread, but this thread has more activity. And because this thread was a major contributor toward my decision to purchase the Cybershaft OP21A, I thought I would share some of my experience with reference-clocking the Vivaldi stack. I have a Vivaldi stack including the Clock in my speaker system. I added a Cybershaft OP21A to the stack this pst spring, and I enjoy the sound quality. I decided to try an SRS Perf10, with a custom Plixir Elite BDC and umbilical, and here is why. There are apparently many different approaches to clocking. dCS employs a lower bandwidth, slower PLL approach in the Vivaldi Master Clock. This makes it efective at filtering out the generally larger amounts of short term jitter in an atomic clock, while gaining the benefits of its long-term stability. Conversely, a more accurate in the short term clock will not have as much effect on the Vivaldi This is just me paraphrasing what dCS engineers share on their community forum. What I am learning is that there is no one best clock for every other reference and/or master clock. One needs to understand what the baseline approach is, and it's not necessarily all about the specs. It may also be difficult to know exactly how the Master Clock in one’s system is designed or works. Learning more about how the Vivaldi DAC and Clock are designed and work has helped me to find-tune my approach to reference clocking.

I am a big fan of the Cybershaft OP21A. It’s a beautifully made piece of equipment, and it’s maker, Kenji Hasegawa, is a delight. On a spec sheet, the OCXO Cybershaft appears more accurate, with lower phase noise, than the Vivaldi Master Clock (as does the Sound Warrior, for example), and so it should provide some benefit. In my system, it certainly sounds like an improvement, though it is more subtle than the addition of the Vivaldi Clock itself. Theoretically, though, the better long-term accuracy of the SRS Perf10 should provide an even greater benefit, because it is in the realm of long-term accuracy that the Vivaldi a Master Clock can most benefit, as dCS engineers themselves publicly state. especially since it has been built to also have excellent short term stability (i.e., not add any more short-term jitter that the Vivaldi Clock and DAC are required to filter out). SRS make their own rubidium oscillators, the same used by Esoteric in the Grandioso G1, I believe. [The SRS Perf10 was favorably reviewed here, though I don't think the author was as clear as he could have been about the role of the SRS in the different type of clock configurations he described; for example, he wrote: "Sorry, folks -- I’m not suggesting that the PERF10 is the sonic equivalent of Esoteric’s G-01 ($23,000) or dCS’s Vivaldi ($13,499) master clock. It’s not." Bu that's not the role of the SRS Perf10; it's not supposed to be the sonic equivalent of a Vivaldi Master Clock; it's role is to improve that clock.]

So far, two weeks in, only the second of which has involved critical listening, it’s not really a close comparison, but it's hardly a blowout either. The Perf10 simply makes the Vivaldi stack sound better than the OP21A. There is a notable—not subtle but also not dramatic—difference in wholistic realism, that the illusion is rock solid and stable. “Spooky” as my wife called it.

The only downside to the Perf10 that I can discern is that it cannot be GPS-disciplined. So, I have one more reference clock on order to try, the Novus 2110. We shall see.

 

[audioguy1958]

drunkenspyder, I think you're talking about the 'gate' time while scanning the output of a GPSDO. For example, a 1 second gate time on a frequency counter measuring the output of a GPSDO at 10Mhz will show less error than a gate time of .1 seconds. This is simply because there is less variation being recorded. It is a good way to 'stabilize' the output of a GPSDO I think.

 

[drunkenspyder]

drunkenspyder, I think you're talking about the 'gate' time while scanning the output of a GPSDO. For example, a 1 second gate time on a frequency counter measuring the output of a GPSDO at 10Mhz will show less error than a gate time of .1 seconds. This is simply because there is less variation being recorded. It is a good way to 'stabilize' the output of a GPSDO I think.

Maybe you meant Sansoum. I don't have a GPSDO. But that is interesting info Thanks for sharing it.

 

[renan33]

Hello since the brand new cybershaft (21A) is a giant killer most of clock user will sell their previous clock to gzet the better one.

So what about the senescence of the clock after 10 years. Is it ok to buy a ten year word clock?
Do some calibration is needed. I saw some ten year old esoteric clock to sell. Is there any pb to buy it??

I have gpsDO on a DCS network bridge and I'm very surprise of the improvement. I thought that a 4000euros gear (DCS NB) could better handle its clock and no a 100 euros clock put some air in the audio...