Power cables: What would it take to change your view?

[RayDunzl]

For my ears the difference in clarity and resolution with subsequent expansion of the sound stage was irrefutable. There were songs that I listened to with my existing cables and then with the MB PC's that was so convincing. I was hearing words to songs that I have never heard before. It was astonishingly quiet with such clarity that there was no doubt.

That qualifies as "I plugged them in and (let me catch my breath here) OMFG!"

Now.

What's the mechanism?

 

[Steve Williams]

You got it Ray. just not worthy of a reply. Some one pee in your grape nuts again Ray.

I'd be happy to invite you over to share the epiphany but I bet you'll just sit in your corner and do what you do best

 

[RayDunzl]

You got it Ray. just not worthy of a reply. Some one pee in your grape nuts again Ray.

I'd be happy to invite you over to share the epiphany but I bet you'll just sit in your corner and do what you do best

I think there's an attempt at an insult there someplace.

Nevertheless, if I did make it out to Southern California again someday (I fully expect to), I'd happily accept the opportunity to visit, and see/hear what you have going.

 

[RogerD]

Some day the high end community will realise the truth in these two statements...and many have started to,they might not yet understand the profoundness of them,but given time they will. From my experience the learning curve is very long and steep.

"Noise is the enemy. Noise is the unnecessary baggage that most systems carry around like backpackers scaling a crest loaded up with stones - it kills the experience. In audiophile terms, it kills clarity, speed and dynamics." ---Walter Fields

"Well, without signal grounding, there is more noise than signal."---Scott Dorsey.

 

[Whatmore]

Bolded is mine. I agree.

over the past 4 months I have had occasion to swap in and out of my system a pair of Master Built Ultra PC's for my amps.I feel it is imperative when one does such a test that you do an A-B-A test to know exactly what you gained and lost

For my ears the difference in clarity and resolution with subsequent expansion of the sound stage was irrefutable. There were songs that I listened to with my existing cables and then with the MB PC's that was so convincing. I was hearing words to songs that I have never heard before. It was astonishingly quiet with such clarity that there was no doubt. When I switched back to my previous cables there was a collapse of the sound stage with now a haze over the music such that it was once again difficult to hear all of the words in the songs with such clarity. The noise and hash was gone

Best way I could describe my experience was going from a picture that was 1080P and very decent but when the new cables were inserted the picture was suddenly 4K which makes going back to the old cable virtually impossible

Perhaps it's because I'm Australian and therefore don't speak English, but very few people here seem to be able to answer the question.
Steve, I'm not asking you to tell us about your experiences that led you to believe cables matter. I'm specifically not asking you that.
I'm asking you what experience would you need to have in order to change that view.

 

[Whatmore]

You got it Ray. just not worthy of a reply. Some one pee in your grape nuts again Ray.

I'd be happy to invite you over to share the epiphany but I bet you'll just sit in your corner and do what you do best

Is there a colour that non-moderators should use when asking moderators to play nicely ?

 

[thedudeabides]

Perhaps it's because I'm Australian and therefore don't speak English, but very few people here seem to be able to answer the question.

Hi Whatmore,

After 85 posts, have you considered the possibility that there may not be a coherent / defensible answer to that question?

Silly thread IMHO.

Best

 

[Whatmore]

Hi Whatmore,

After 85 posts, have you considered the possibility that there may not be a coherent / defensible answer to that question?

Silly thread IMHO.

Best

I think that if you think that answers need to be "defensible" then you've not understood the original question.
In any event, if the thread is silly you are welcome to stop participating in it.

 

[Steve Williams]

Amir, if you are serious about conducting a valid test procedure, I would be happy to help by supplying a test rig.
The rig would have the ability to compare two different cables without removing power to the system or component under test.

Call or email privately and we can discuss what is involved.

I fee that this post by Caelin if followed through by Amir should hopefully show that Power cables matter.

In fact up until a few years ago I was cable neutral and definitely felt that power cords would make no difference. I began following Caelin and his Shunyata Research and felt that there was strong science behind Caelin's cables, so much so that I toured his factory several years ago and watched these cables being made as well as Caelin's R&D Lab where he spends most of his time

Caelin builds a first class product.Not only was I cable neutral before I heard his cables I was anticipating I would not hear an improvement. Is that bias or is that negative bias? The change however was there and clearly audible. There have been far too many Suhunyata threads here all praising Caelin for what his cables have done to their systems myself included

Suffice it to say that I was completely swayed and loved hearing my system with Caelin's cables. Caelin would not IMO to offer to do that test with Amir if he felt there would be no audible differences

Finally I am with RogerD when he time and again mentions "noise is the enemy". LL21 points to wonderful information about how well received Caelin's PC's were received in a cardiac imaging lab because his PC's provided so much better resolution. Surely all of this must indicate that PC's make a difference. If I need some cardiac imaging I know where I would want to have them done

 

[twitch]

Silly thread IMHO.

Best

Gordon, you 'silly' boy you .......

 

[RogerD]

Finally I am with RogerD when he time and again mentions "noise is the enemy". LL21 points to wonderful information about how well received Caelin's PC's were received in a cardiac imaging lab because his PC's provided so much better resolution. Surely all of this must indicate that PC's make a difference. If I need some cardiac imaging I know where I would want to have them done

Thank you Steve, as I know through your experiences with genuine sonic advancements,you know where I'm coming from.

 

[microstrip]

(...)
I'm asking you what experience would you need to have in order to change that view.

I think Lloyd has given us an universal answer for all cable believers written in a nice style:

(...) That said, i CAN confirm that if i took them all out, and the sound was the same, i would be happy to sell them for money and keep it.

 

[BruceD]

. If I need some cardiac imaging I know where I would want to have them done

Good points Steve--- don't forget the Lemo/Fischer connectors too!

These type of threads always end up as train wrecks --sadly

BruceD

 

[Whatmore]

I think Lloyd has given us an universal answer for all cable believers written in a nice style:

But I'm pretty sure that if you or Lloyd removed your cables "sighted" that there would of course, be a difference. So you aren't really challenging yourselves.
I'm asking for people to really consider, honestly with themselves,whether something would change their view. Putting up a hypothetical that you know will fail is simply dodging the question.

Come on people, surely you are able to push yourselves out of your comfort zone?

 

[thedudeabides]

I think that if you think that answers need to be "defensible" then you've not understood the original question.

Oh. Please excuse me for my ignorance. I'm simply a peon.

This thread is silly.

 

[Whatmore]

Oh. Please excuse me for my ignorance. I'm simply a peon.

This thread is silly.

Seriously?
I've tried so hard to keep this thread nice and patiently explain my question (over and over again).
I really can live without the hissy fit.
I'll try again.

I've asked for peoples' own thoughts on what would work for them. That's a personal thing. Because it's a personal thing, it doesn't need to stand up to criticism. It doesn't need to be defensible- it's personal.

Perhaps some are challenged by the question and hence the number of replies that I see as being defensive/ arrogant/demeaning to the thread.

Again, no one is forcing anyone else to play. I couldn't care less if you don't want to contribute, but if you do, please play nicely.

 

[LL21]

But I'm pretty sure that if you or Lloyd removed your cables "sighted" that there would of course, be a difference. So you aren't really challenging yourselves.
I'm asking for people to really consider, honestly with themselves,whether something would change their view. Putting up a hypothetical that you know will fail is simply dodging the question.

Come on people, surely you are able to push yourselves out of your comfort zone?

Hi Whatmore,

Let me go back to WHY i ended up buying my first power cable in the first place. (Up until this point, i was stock cable guy all the way...no idea you could even BUY third party power cables. The idea of network boxes on cables, etc was all new to me.) I walked into the demo room of the audio store...saw a series of mid-fi equipment. I was stunned that it should sound so good in a room i'd spent countless hours in. I was shocked...i literally went straight over to the CD after realizing this was too good to be true...and removed it thinking it must be an audiophile CD. Putting in Clapton Unplugged was the same...deep tonal density, and extremely quiet, black background.

I went back out to grab the Manager and INSIST he listen...it was way better than it should have been. I asked him about what in the system i was missing, and we went component by component...nothing but mid-fi. He was confused. I eventually spied some fat thing running along the back wall. THAT was the Purist Audio Dominus which was powering the Conditioner.

I asked him to take it back out...the return of grunge, less definition, less silky peformance. Mid-fi like it should have been.

That for me is the ultimate blind test. When you dont even know you are being tested. You walk in expecting to say hi to the guys, grab a coffee, chit chat for 20 minutes before taking off. (When i was single, i used to stop by on Saturdays and just say hi and check out any new equipment.)

I did not take the unit home and buy it that day...too expensive. But i did take it home much much later after having a similar experience with the Zanden digital which i eventually hooked up to that exact power cable and still use it to this day nearly 10 years later.

 

[Whatmore]

Hi Whatmore,

Let me go back to WHY i ended up buying my first power cable in the first place. (Up until this point, i was stock cable guy all the way...no idea you could even BUY third party power cables. The idea of network boxes on cables, etc was all new to me.) I walked into the demo room of the audio store...saw a series of mid-fi equipment. I was stunned that it should sound so good in a room i'd spent countless hours in. I was shocked...i literally went straight over to the CD after realizing this was too good to be true...and removed it thinking it must be an audiophile CD. Putting in Clapton Unplugged was the same...deep tonal density, and extremely quiet, black background.

I went back out to grab the Manager and INSIST he listen...it was way better than it should have been. I asked him about what in the system i was missing, and we went component by component...nothing but mid-fi. He was confused. I eventually spied some fat thing running along the back wall. THAT was the Purist Audio Dominus which was powering the Conditioner.

I asked him to take it back out...the return of grunge, less definition, less silky peformance. Mid-fi like it should have been.

That for me is the ultimate blind test. When you dont even know you are being tested. You walk in expecting to say hi to the guys, grab a coffee, chit chat for 20 minutes before taking off. (When i was single, i used to stop by on Saturdays and just say hi and check out any new equipment.)

I did not take the unit home and buy it that day...too expensive. But i did take it home much much later after having a similar experience with the Zanden digital which i eventually hooked up to that exact power cable and still use it to this day nearly 10 years later.

That's a great story of your experience. Thanks for sharing.
All of us have stories and experiences that inform how we've come to our current view/belief about the effect of cables. Some of those experiences have led some of us to think that cables are vital to the life of our system. Equally some experiences have led others to believe that cables are all the same.

Again, you've told us how you've come to your current view. Interesting as that is, it doesn't answer the question.
I'm challenging you (and others) to imagine a situation in which your view might change.

 

[LL21]

That's a great story of your experience. Thanks for sharing.
All of us have stories and experiences that inform how we've come to our current view/belief about the effect of cables. Some of those experiences have led some of us to think that cables are vital to the life of our system. Equally some experiences have led others to believe that cables are all the same.

Again, you've told us how you've come to your current view. Interesting as that is, it doesn't answer the question.
I'm challenging you (and others) to imagine a situation in which your view might change.

Again, i repeat that is like saying i suddenly have to believe the earth is flat...cables DO matter. I just had an experience. The only thing that would change it is if the laws of physics changed. So what would it take for power cables not to matter (under ANY circumstances?)...changes to the physical laws that govern existence.

The only thing i would add is that i am NOT saying power cables ALWAYS matter in every system or to everyone...that i do NOT believe. But in my system...there has not been anything since 2009 or so, despite ongoing improvements, changes, including home and room that have changed that.

 

[LL21]

Try another example, i eat a hot pepper
- for me its spicy

- no matter how many times i eat it...its spicy

- for someone else, not spicy at all...can barely taste it

- but for me...always spicy...
- so to ask me what would it take for me not to find it spicy...i can only say changes the laws of existence since for my tongue, the darn thing is spicy.