Posting here is like talking to yourself!

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
8,550
0
36
Calgary, AB
#1
I’ve been a member here since the very beginning and have thousands of posts and have started hundreds of threads. There was always some really good, informative, constructive and helpful dialogue between members, and people even showed a sense of humour and light-heartedness. That continued for a very long time and it was a pleasure opening up the page every morning to see what was new. I don’t mind telling you that I’ve learned a lot through the years from all of the interactions, and I sure do thank you for that. But things have changed….and IMO not for the better or certainly not to the degree whereby it continues to hold my interest or attention.

In this, the year 2016 and especially the last 6 months, the WBF has become a place for perhaps a dozen or two individuals who talk amongst themselves and pretty much ignore everything and everyone else. It has become a clique. There is no dialogue, unless of course a post contains many congratulations about a new acquisition, a field trip or other pats on the back. Frankly, I find all that rather shallow. The scope of discussion concerning various brands or products has also been decreasing significantly with a focus on perhaps 10-15 manufacturers and all others be damned. And music discussions are pretty much entirely absent. This wasn’t always the case.

Sorry for venting, but I’m frustrated by the increasing narrow focus of a site that I once felt genuinely a part of. Anyway, I’ll still be looking around as I hope for a better experience in the future, and also because there are many members here who I think are aces. In the meantime I’ll just sit back…..I remain hopeful.
 

853guy

Active Member
Aug 14, 2013
1,161
0
36
#2
I’ve been a member here since the very beginning and have thousands of posts and have started hundreds of threads. There was always some really good, informative, constructive and helpful dialogue between members, and people even showed a sense of humour and light-heartedness. That continued for a very long time and it was a pleasure opening up the page every morning to see what was new. I don’t mind telling you that I’ve learned a lot through the years from all of the interactions, and I sure do thank you for that. But things have changed….and IMO not for the better or certainly not to the degree whereby it continues to hold my interest or attention.

In this, the year 2016 and especially the last 6 months, the WBF has become a place for perhaps a dozen or two individuals who talk amongst themselves and pretty much ignore everything and everyone else. It has become a clique. There is no dialogue, unless of course a post contains many congratulations about a new acquisition, a field trip or other pats on the back. Frankly, I find all that rather shallow. The scope of discussion concerning various brands or products has also been decreasing significantly with a focus on perhaps 10-15 manufacturers and all others be damned. And music discussions are pretty much entirely absent. This wasn’t always the case.

Sorry for venting, but I’m frustrated by the increasing narrow focus of a site that I once felt genuinely a part of. Anyway, I’ll still be looking around as I hope for a better experience in the future, and also because there are many members here who I think are aces. In the meantime I’ll just sit back…..I remain hopeful.
I think it’s like any communal pursuit: It’s only ever as good (or bad) as the individuals taking part. Some come, stay, flourish. Some come, annoy the hell out of everyone for their dogmatic, myopic agendarizing, and leave. Or stay. And continue to be annoying. And rack up thousands of posts. Any collective that’s made up of individuals who are free to come and go as they please will by design, ultimately fluctuate in regard to frequency of participation, quality of content and breadth of discussion. That’s all part and parcel of “membership” in a forum.

For me, we’ve lived in three different places in the last three years after moving hemisphere’s. Had to adapt to a new language, culture and bureaucracy. Moved away from paid employment. Begun freelancing. Acquired new clients. Went to two incomes for the first time in nine years. Three kids under ten. There’s about thirty books I feel guilty about not reading on my shelf. Hundreds of new and old albums I haven’t yet listened to. Films I know I should see. A new country and continent to explore. About 30,000 miles of unridden mountain bike tracks within a day’s driving. And, thankfully and blessedly, a wife and family whom I’m discovering I love more than I ever have, who are so much more interesting than I ever gave them credit for, and so much more worthy of my time and energy than I could have every imagined.

It’s just a time-of-life thing. Sometimes, things gets busy. I really enjoy being part of the forum too. More so, now, actually. But y’know… It’s only hi-fi.

Big hugs,

853guy
 

steve williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
#3
Thanks to both John and Brendon for their thoughts. John has been here from the beginning and I understand what he is trying to say as I do Brendon.

Ron and I are meeting this Sunday to discuss things we would like to do as well as things to make better. We will report back to you John et al
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
8,550
0
36
Calgary, AB
#4
Thank you Steve.
 

still-one

Member Sponsor
Aug 6, 2012
1,363
1
38
Milford, Michigan
#5
None of the OP's comments surprise me or is news. It seems that the entire web continues to bifurcate into more focused sites where individuals hang out with others who think as they do. They do not want to be told their purchase was too expensive or not expensive enough. Why would individuals come to WBF if they want to discuss their Salvation Army finds? There are sites who cater to those individuals. There are sites for people to gather who don't believe "relatively" large companies such as Wilson or Magico, McIntosh or B&W can make great product. For these individuals only niche companies produce innovative product. My point, except for a few trolls, people do not hang out for very long where they don't get the positive feedback they seek. They will find that elsewhere.

All of us get frustrated here at times. Many threads become train wrecks. This country, along with many others, are divided on so many issues. Audio is no exception. Most of us bring our audio dogma baggage to every post. If we understand there is no "Best" for everyone, they would not have to deal with such frustration.
 

Hi-FiGuy

Member Sponsor
Feb 24, 2015
1,152
0
36
#6
For as long as I have been on forums they all eventually dwindle down to a smaller group of locals.
Some have evaporated completely and others I just log out never go back.

This site I can say I have been welcomed to with open arms, have made friends visited some amazing systems as well as businesses.

I have met more people involved within the industry at all levels and had very real non-pretensious conversations with deep mutual respect, awesome!

I feel that if I ever visit another continent I would be treated the same. That is amazing stuff right there.

As I get older my desire to argue and force my opinion on someone has all but evaporated. Don't have the time or desire, don't care.

When I see something I don't agree with I just read on. Eveyone has their theories and no other person is going to change it. Just as in politics.

As mentioned in a previous post above, I would much rather be spending time it my wife than pissing on a forum.

I definitely would like to see more conversations about the music itself and even the production of it but overall I love this place and the people here.

Overall I would have to say my audio and personal life are better because this place exists. There are only two forums I visit daily and the other one has really dwindled down to a small group and my final log out may be coming in the near future.

I don't see that happening here any time soon.
 
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Folsom

VIP/Donor
Oct 26, 2015
2,557
2
38
Eastern WA
#7
If you go to an audio show you'll see thousands of people. And maybe a couple of them attend this forum. It's the same on another forum I enjoy too. However there are a LOT of lurkers.

I'm not sure I have issues with anything other than I'd love to see more participation.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
7,095
25
48
#8
to me the vibe on WBF varies depending on the 'hot topic'. certain topics pull in lots of people from different perspectives and it seems crowded. you have the long running topics on specific products with particular regulars.

there was a time when I was changing my system, buying lots of new music, and so I brought new ideas and stuff to WBF. I'm not in that mode now (and may rarely be ever again going forward) so I'm more a reactor and not an instigator. if there are many like me then it gets quiet and the action is just longer running subjects with the regular participants. which can appear to be getting too clubby for some, but it's just that there is not enough new topics.

Johnny I do notice quite a bit less new music posting....and know that is your deal.

one thing about WBF is that a little conflict is ok and mostly things roll along in spite of it. so it's credible. people do call bullsh*t when appropriate and toes do get stepped on a bit.....if only a bit. and while there is plenty of cheerleading that happens, it's much less than many forums. more real, less staged.

late summer early fall every year there is a bit of forum soul searching that happens as the summer slow time ends and the fall audio energy reawakens. normal stuff.

all in all, regular ebbs and flows. likely still seeking equilibrium from the admin change to some degree.
 

rbbert

Active Member
Dec 12, 2010
3,423
0
36
Reno, NV
#9
I have noticed the phenomenon Johnny mentions at most of the audio sites I read. In some ways that is good, because one learns about other members' knowledge base and firmly held opinions, which allows the reader to be able to evaluate their posts more usefully. The bad part is the limited number of opinions and knowledge base available. One can go to some of the much bigger audio forums (SH Forums, AVS Forums, Audiogon, etc.) to get beyond that, but the price is more trolls and more posters with very little knowledge or experience throwing their opinions in with eveyone else's, making it a bit harder to separate the signal from the noise.
 
#10
Here are some of my own impressions of the last six months:

• There is less science, more soul...less tension...good.
• The recent visit of Steve with friends overseas was a rich experience he shared with us; I took out great readings from it.
• The Classical music thread is always active; we can't ask better than that.
• The what is spinning now is regular...excellent. It don't need to be a super highway.
• I noticed more peace overall, more calmness...that for me is the road to true advancement, and as a matter fact it is as WBF is gaining ground in the world in the last six months.
• The overall "wave" of discussions is more natural, mature, reasonable, forward.
• The sources of info is richer than ever.
• I have changed, I am changing, adapting for the better.
* In the last few weeks the movie thread has been calm; but Autumn is upon us, and with it new horizons in the film/documentary/art world are about to explode.
* The passed summer Rio Olympics games were fun and enriching.
* Some documentaries on Netflix were entertaining on many fronts. /// Making a Murderer, Narcos Season 2. ...More to come.

I agree with Mike that some topics are of greater interest to more people.
And it comes and goes like ocean's waves pushed and built higher by the tides, the under currents, by the winds.

Interest, that's the key word. If it ain't there we all have the experience to create it.
The people we learn to like more and hate less. That's life, that's us, we're here and we're all different, but all the same too...same brand of blood running through our veins.
 
Last edited:

DaveyF

Active Member
Aug 1, 2010
5,647
6
38
La Jolla, Calif USA
#12
I’ve been a member here since the very beginning and have thousands of posts and have started hundreds of threads. There was always some really good, informative, constructive and helpful dialogue between members, and people even showed a sense of humour and light-heartedness. That continued for a very long time and it was a pleasure opening up the page every morning to see what was new. I don’t mind telling you that I’ve learned a lot through the years from all of the interactions, and I sure do thank you for that. But things have changed….and IMO not for the better or certainly not to the degree whereby it continues to hold my interest or attention.

In this, the year 2016 and especially the last 6 months, the WBF has become a place for perhaps a dozen or two individuals who talk amongst themselves and pretty much ignore everything and everyone else. It has become a clique. There is no dialogue, unless of course a post contains many congratulations about a new acquisition, a field trip or other pats on the back. Frankly, I find all that rather shallow. The scope of discussion concerning various brands or products has also been decreasing significantly with a focus on perhaps 10-15 manufacturers and all others be damned. And music discussions are pretty much entirely absent. This wasn’t always the case.

Sorry for venting, but I’m frustrated by the increasing narrow focus of a site that I once felt genuinely a part of. Anyway, I’ll still be looking around as I hope for a better experience in the future, and also because there are many members here who I think are aces. In the meantime I’ll just sit back…..I remain hopeful.
John,
I, for one, always enjoy and appreciate your threads and posts. You are, imho, one of the more sensible posters here.
Unfortunately, the tone here recently seems to have taken a turn towards--the higher the price, the better the gear. IMO, whenever one hears a lot of this gear, the sticker shock seems to place a damper on the piece for me. I don't care if it is great sounding, the price asked, discounts it for me and most everyone else. I simply do not have epiphanies like so many others seem to enjoy here. Frankly, I have never had an epiphany listening to any stereo system, never mind individual gear. Since I listen to- and have been exposed to a lot of 'live' music, i seriously doubt that the epiphany thing will ever happen to me. We are SO SO far away from reproducing the sound of the 'real' that IMHO ( again IMHO) it is not even funny!!
Nonetheless, some of the threads are interesting...I like the one about the new WAMM, as an example. Dave Wilson is setting himself up for such a fall it could be incredible ( because to me, the higher the price, the higher the expectation); or maybe he has designed and built the ultimate speaker ( at the price he is going to be asking, he damn well better have!). Somehow, I am pretty sure there will be a mk2 version, wherein all of the faults of the original will be addressed.:D

Sure glad I'm not in charge of the day to day goings on on this forum, LOL.

Cheers.:cool:
 
Jun 24, 2015
63
0
0
Fidach
#13
I think it’s like any communal pursuit: It’s only ever as good (or bad) as the individuals taking part. Some come, stay, flourish. Some come, annoy the hell out of everyone for their dogmatic, myopic agendarizing, and leave. Or stay. And continue to be annoying. And rack up thousands of posts. Any collective that’s made up of individuals who are free to come and go as they please will by design, ultimately fluctuate in regard to frequency of participation, quality of content and breadth of discussion. That’s all part and parcel of “membership” in a forum.

For me, we’ve lived in three different places in the last three years after moving hemisphere’s. Had to adapt to a new language, culture and bureaucracy. Moved away from paid employment. Begun freelancing. Acquired new clients. Went to two incomes for the first time in nine years. Three kids under ten. There’s about thirty books I feel guilty about not reading on my shelf. Hundreds of new and old albums I haven’t yet listened to. Films I know I should see. A new country and continent to explore. About 30,000 miles of unridden mountain bike tracks within a day’s driving. And, thankfully and blessedly, a wife and family whom I’m discovering I love more than I ever have, who are so much more interesting than I ever gave them credit for, and so much more worthy of my time and energy than I could have every imagined.

It’s just a time-of-life thing. Sometimes, things gets busy. I really enjoy being part of the forum too. More so, now, actually. But y’know… It’s only hi-fi.

Big hugs,

853guy
Although I am not a regular, I agree with 853 guy. I really don't fit in here, but I do drop in and listen a bit. I am quite fascinated by the conversations, general and specific. Those who do post regularly seem to be having fun and, if Steve Williams is a "moderator", I find him especially dedicated and open.

It's always interesting to hear what the other 2% talk about amongst themselves.
 

XV-1

Active Member
May 24, 2010
1,560
9
38
Sydney
#14
Hey Jonny

I hear you.

What you need to do is buy the Wamm and everyone will want to be your friend. :D

Music certainly seems to take a back seat here to gear. Not that there is anything wrong with that, as you know there are other sites where music is celebrated.

Now back to the music. How friig8n goodcis Prince. RIP dude, we miss you.

29244708453_5488353532_b.jpg
 

RBFC

WBF Founding Member & Super Moderator
Apr 20, 2010
5,121
0
36
Albuquerque, NM
www.fightingconcepts.com
#15
I would encourage anyone who has interest in a topic to feel free to start discussions. We are still "developing" WBF and welcome contribution by members. Please post about music you enjoy and remember that more folks (who don't post) read your thoughts than you realize.

As to not posting about music, I'm as guilty as the next guy. Will try to up my game.

Lee
 
May 30, 2010
13,978
49
48
Portugal
#16
The fact that I now have bookmarks on six audioforums in my toolbar explains in part Johnny Vinyl feelings. A few years ago WBF was almost unique and had a large active community. Along the years, for reasons we all know well, some members parted, creating their own forums with their own memberships. I think that many of us are members of several of these forums, but each of us participates mainly in a forum, favoring the intrinsic funneling of debates and equipment. Fortunately WBF still keeps a large diversity and many active members, but IMHO the only way to broaden our threads is attracting new members that will bring their visions of the best.
 

steve williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
#17
well along with new leadership came peace here at WBF but prior to this as micro states with all of the crap that went on here for a considerable amount of time there was an exodus of members with several starting their own sites the most recent of which is a dismal failure. As proper discourse has once again returned to the pages of WBF I am seeing a trickle back of many of these older members

As I told John yesterday Ron and I are meeting on Sunday to discuss new ideas and ways to hopefully improve on what we have already done and I will report back to John at the beginning of next week
 

es347

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
1,567
1
38
Midwest fly over state..
#18
to me the vibe on WBF varies depending on the 'hot topic'. certain topics pull in lots of people from different perspectives and it seems crowded. you have the long running topics on specific products with particular regulars.

there was a time when I was changing my system, buying lots of new music, and so I brought new ideas and stuff to WBF. I'm not in that mode now (and may rarely be ever again going forward) so I'm more a reactor and not an instigator. if there are many like me then it gets quiet and the action is just longer running subjects with the regular participants. which can appear to be getting too clubby for some, but it's just that there is not enough new topics.

Johnny I do notice quite a bit less new music posting....and know that is your deal.

one thing about WBF is that a little conflict is ok and mostly things roll along in spite of it. so it's credible. people do call bullsh*t when appropriate and toes do get stepped on a bit.....if only a bit. and while there is plenty of cheerleading that happens, it's much less than many forums. more real, less staged.

late summer early fall every year there is a bit of forum soul searching that happens as the summer slow time ends and the fall audio energy reawakens. normal stuff.

all in all, regular ebbs and flows. likely still seeking equilibrium from the admin change to some degree.
..question: is your CAPS key broken? :)
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
7,095
25
48
#19
..question: is your CAPS key broken? :)
guilty!!!

I'm a hunt and peck 2 finger typist (never learned to type) and don't use caps on forums....at 65 years old it's not important enough to change.

at work the software fixes it.

i'm a flawed human being.....and I'm ok with that. sorry if it offends, not my intention.
 

slowGEEZR

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2010
1,263
0
0
66
Round Rock, Texas
#20
The most important thing for me is the music. Many (most?) of us here have really good systems already. Some are willing to spend mega bucks to get the latest and greatest, but most (many?) of us buy gear more rarely. I think people are attracted to audio sites in order to learn more about the gear and stay for the comradery and for me, at least, to learn about new music and how to make our current systems perform to their capability. Mostly, I just lurk in the sites of which I'm a member, because there are only so many times one can relate their experiences with audio. I generally post up what music I'm listening to and wish more would do so. In this way we could discuss qualities of the music's format and overall quality.
 

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