Multi-decks (TTs) - rationality and recommendations

[iaxel]

I admit the idea of multi-decks (turntables) has come to my mind a few times in the past.
I believe I understand the thought behind having multiple arms and cartridges. As long as you have a turntable that can reflect these changes in the best possible manner.
My question is about multiple turntables.
- Are those used mostly for comparison?
- Is the aim to have the best table-arm-cartridge combination to create a certain voicing that favors certain music genres?

I found that if I have a better overall performer (e.g. 2 cartridges that one outperforms the other - overall), the other "wannabees" are left aside to gather dust.

I know it may be fun, but I want it to last (longer than the initial hype of ownership).

Owning a TechDas AF3P, with a ~$15-20K budget - what would you recommend as a 2nd deck to go along.

P.S. I'm not into vintage restoration, unless I get the entire package "as new".

 

[iaxel]

Ideas? Direction? Suggestions? Opinios? Anyone? No-one?

 

[redandgold]

Should be a different flavour with equal quality. Maybe a direct drive like the Technics SP-1000 R, would be in budget. Or better SP-10 R with OMA plinth.

 

[Solypsa]

I think the process starts the same- multiple decks. Some push multiple to see which is their 'ultimate' and then end up with one. Others push multiple to their individual best and keep all as 'different'. I am pretty convinced this is more a personality thing than a right way thing...

Anyways you mention not being into vintage but it seems to me that a Denon 308 or an SP10MK3 or other top end DD would be a fun start...

 

[PeterA]

I might look into a fully restored Garrard 401 in a new mass loaded plinth with SME 3012R arm. Contact @jeffrey_t . He just added this turntable to his high mass belt drive. I think he prefers one for jazz and the other for classical.

 

[Solypsa]

@iaxel : btw what is 'JdL magnetic 16" ' under tonearms in your signature?

 

[iaxel]

Should be a different flavour with equal quality. Maybe a direct drive like the Technics SP-1000 R, would be in budget. Or better SP-10 R with OMA plinth.

The Technics is indeed in my short list.
The OMA plinth looks awesome, but I'm afraid it could be a bit out of budget. What about Artisan Fidelity plinths?

 

[iaxel]

I think the process starts the same- multiple decks. Some push multiple to see which is their 'ultimate' and then end up with one. Others push multiple to their individual best and keep all as 'different'. I am pretty convinced this is more a personality thing than a right way thing...

Anyways you mention not being into vintage but it seems to me that a Denon 308 or an SP10MK3 or other top end DD would be a fun start...

I'm, indeed, looking for somethings 'different', but if, at the end of the process, that 'different' will be an overall better - then it may replace my current AF3P.
What is the Denon 308?
Regarding SP10MK3, I'm into the newer SP10R, just because it is not a vintage mechanism...

 

[iaxel]

I might look into a fully restored Garrard 401 in a new mass loaded plinth with SME 3012R arm. Contact @jeffrey_t . He just added this turntable to his high mass belt drive. I think he prefers one for jazz and the other for classical.

Interesting, thanks @PeterA !
My assumption is jazz on the 401 and classical on his belt drive.
Overall, I'm less into vintage, but I'm willing to be convinced .

 

[redandgold]

The Technics is indeed in my short list.
The OMA plinth looks awesome, but I'm afraid it could be a bit out of budget. What about Artisan Fidelity plinths?

You are talking about

Technics Sp10R — Artisan Fidelity

Reference Class Turntable Promising Outstanding Results The SP-10R features a brand new, coreless direct drive motor which, in addition to the two-sided rotor drive system that was used in the SL-1200G, boasts stator coils on both sides of the rotor, for a more powerful and accurate sound. The hea

www.artisanfidelity.com

Never heard from someone who compared both plinths. I guess the AF will be a bit more expensive but not huge.

Beside sound both have different visual appearance. The AF more classical and the OMA more loft style.

 

[iaxel]

You are talking about

Technics Sp10R — Artisan Fidelity

Reference Class Turntable Promising Outstanding Results The SP-10R features a brand new, coreless direct drive motor which, in addition to the two-sided rotor drive system that was used in the SL-1200G, boasts stator coils on both sides of the rotor, for a more powerful and accurate sound. The hea

www.artisanfidelity.com

Never heard from someone who compared both plinths. I guess the AF will be a bit more expensive but not huge.

Beside sound both have different visual appearance. The AF more classical and the OMA more loft style.

Actually the OMA is more expensive by some margin (~X1.5).
Yes, visually they differ, but AF have many finishing options. However, I'm more interested in how they differ sound-wise (and I guess that will be difficult to answer).

 

[djsina2]

Woodsong is on a completely different level than AF when it comes to quality. Not even close. I owned both.

 

[iaxel]

@iaxel : btw what is 'JdL magnetic 16" ' under tonearms in your signature?

It's a non-commercial, magnetic bearing tonearm built by a good friend. It's 16'' in length.

 

[iaxel]

Woodsong is on a completely different level than AF when it comes to quality. Not even close. I owned both.

Can you elaborate a bit? What quality issues did you have with the AF?
Do Woodsong build plinths for Technics?

 

[Solypsa]

I'm, indeed, looking for somethings 'different', but if, at the end of the process, that 'different' will be an overall better - then it may replace my current AF3P.
What is the Denon 308?
Regarding SP10MK3, I'm into the newer SP10R, just because it is not a vintage mechanism...

The Denon 308 is a fairly rare broadcast deck using the top denon motor and built into a pro console- think EMT or maybe a Studer This already makes it old and hard to find, I was probably just projecting my own desire for one!

PBN audio built a few into smaller modern plinths...

 

[djsina2]

Can you elaborate a bit? What quality issues did you have with the AF?
Do Woodsong build plinths for Technics?

I’m sorry but the last time I voiced my opinion with the facts (owned both) I was banned from this site. So now I need to behave, but trust me, AF is not in the same dimension as Woodsong. You would need to ask if they do Technics but I don’t see why not.

 

[bonzo75]

Hi, this is difficult to say as people have multiple TTs at various levels of budget... Mostly they use them for experimentation and then get down to listening to one one or two. So if you are itchy right now, you could rotate among 4 if you could afford it. At least one of them should be multi arm.

Ideally, if I had to set up multiple TTs, my second TT would be the EMT that tang has, as it does something special that no other TT does. One TT would be a good linear tracker.

That still leaves you with what should be the first TT. Which will be the same question as what is the TT you should get if had to be only one. A belt, direct drive, which one? All direct drives I have heard sound different from each other as do idlers. So I don't agree to the philosophy that one should be idler, one should be DD, one belt, etc because that tells you nothing unless you own multiple idlers, multiple directs, etc.

Try to have all different sounding, and of similar level. You might finally listen to one more than the other but don't spread them initially with the knowledge one is to be a secondary. Same with carts

 

[iaxel]

Thanks @bonzo75 !

Hi, this is difficult to say as people have multiple TTs at various levels of budget... Mostly they use them for experimentation and then get down to listening to one one or two. So if you are itchy right now, you could rotate among 4 if you could afford it. At least one of them should be multi arm.

Ideally, if I had to set up multiple TTs, my second TT would be the EMT that tang has, as it does something special that no other TT does. One TT would be a good linear tracker.

Which EMT? EMTs are very hard to find in working condition (without doing the restoration yourself). EMTs were used in 24/7 broadcasting radios, so most of them were in very heavy use. I'm open to ideas where to get such a table in full-operating/excellent cosmetic and mechanical condition.

That still leaves you with what should be the first TT. Which will be the same question as what is the TT you should get if had to be only one. A belt, direct drive, which one? All direct drives I have heard sound different from each other as do idlers. So I don't agree to the philosophy that one should be idler, one should be DD, one belt, etc because that tells you nothing unless you own multiple idlers, multiple directs, etc.

Try to have all different sounding, and of similar level. You might finally listen to one more than the other but don't spread them initially with the knowledge one is to be a secondary. Same with carts

That's exactly it. I don't want a "secondary" table as it will, eventually, sit aside gathering dust after a couple of enthusiastic weeks. I'm looking for a second contender, maybe a table that will have its strength in areas which the other does not have.

 

[bonzo75]

The EMT 927 restored by the Dutch restorer. It is expensive and around 40k euro.

Vyger is great especially for a SETs horn system as a l

Techdas, is good for rock and amplified imo but I don't like it so much for classical. I prefer brinkmann balance to techdas and unless you have some esoteric exotica coming up, at normal budget for a balanced one TT for all music I love the brinkmann balance.

There are many, your itch will stay until you hear most of them, and then there will be a few more to listen to.

If you get a lower priced TT like STST Motus II you might realize that though some more expensive TTs win the audio battle, the STST is good enough to keep you musically satisfied wondering why not invest the other money in bitcoin

 

[iaxel]

The EMT 927 restored by the Dutch restorer. It is expensive and around 40k euro.

Well, that's out of budget...

Vyger is great especially for a SETs horn system as a l

This is as well... (budget is ~20K EUR for complete table+arm)

Techdas, is good for rock and amplified imo but I don't like it so much for classical. I prefer brinkmann balance to techdas and unless you have some esoteric exotica coming up, at normal budget for a balanced one TT for all music I love the brinkmann balance.

I've actually heard the Brinkmann (Balance) and the Techdas (AF3 not AF3P) on the same system but not head to head. The Techdas sounded much better on all the played material. Especially on classical. And owning the AF3, I can say the AF3P is a step above.

There are many, your itch will stay until you hear most of them, and then there will be a few more to listen to.

If you get a lower priced TT like STST Motus II you might realize that though some more expensive TTs win the audio battle, the STST is good enough to keep you musically satisfied wondering why not invest the other money in bitcoin

STST Motus is interesting, but won't it just sit there and play second fiddle to the AF3P?