Miyajima Labs Cartridges

[dminches]

Why does it seem as though the Miyajima Labs stereo cartridges are not as popular as the mono ones?

I own a Zero mono and really love it. I owned a Madake for a while but didn’t love it. I prefer the Zero to my Clearaudio GFS (on mono records) but I am not sure I would feel the same way about the Destiny as compared to the GFS. I have not heard the Destiny in any system but I don’t hear people talk much about it.

Just wondering how others see this based on their experience with the Miyajima cartridges.

 

[Shuggie]

Why does it seem as though the Miyajima Labs stereo cartridges are not as popular as the mono ones?

I own a Zero mono and really love it. I owned a Madake for a while but didn’t love it. I prefer the Zero to my Clearaudio GFS (on mono records) but I am not sure I would feel the same way about the Destiny as compared to the GFS. I have not heard the Destiny in any system but I don’t hear people talk much about it.

Just wondering how others see this based on their experience with the Miyajima cartridges.

Miyajima stereo cartridges have traditionally had a slightly 'warm' tonal character which is for most owners compensated by their astonishing musical lucidity and expression. For audio buyers brought up on 'modern' and very 'clean' sounding MC cartridges, a stereo Miyajima can be a bit of a shock, but a temporary one, assuming that the cartridge is correctly loaded. Some folks never quite come to terms with the tonal character of these cartridges.

Miyajima's newer Takumi L, Saboten L and Destiny models with line contact tips do have a more extended top end and they do sound much more 'modern' but still with the Miyajima musical purity, so maybe that's what you are looking for after the Madake. Imagine your Zero with stereo.

The Saboten L is a truly lovely thing, derived from the Shilabe but with a part cactus spine cantilever - truly a Miyajima with a contemporary sound character that even embraces heavy metal music. I've not heard the Destiny, but I have no doubt that it's a step beyond the Saboten L.

 

[leyenda]

The Miyajima mono earns my respect for the brand. I got the Shilabe expecting a similar sound as it was top of the line back then. Instead, I found the stereo cart to sound quite confused - sort of neither here nor there. Replacing it with SPU got myself thinking that this is probably the kind of sound Miyajima was trying to achieve. I have listened to a few other Miyajima stereo carts in others' systems but never have another stereo cart in my system as I feel the SPUs in various iterations/models offer what I was looking for in a Miyajima stereo. The Zero however remains central in my mono playback (the SPU mono is secondary). This is all IMHO and your experience may vary.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

These are excellent cartridges.

 

[kodomo]

Why does it seem as though the Miyajima Labs stereo cartridges are not as popular as the mono ones?

I own a Zero mono and really love it. I owned a Madake for a while but didn’t love it. I prefer the Zero to my Clearaudio GFS (on mono records) but I am not sure I would feel the same way about the Destiny as compared to the GFS. I have not heard the Destiny in any system but I don’t hear people talk much about it.

Just wondering how others see this based on their experience with the Miyajima cartridges.

I own a madake and I really like it. It is not a flashy cartridge, it does not hype any particular frequency band. As far as I have measured and listened, it is a very neutral cartridge with very good separation so very good balance and imaging. I enjoy it on my Kuzma 4 point arm, they are a great pair, the res. freq. is about 10hz. I had deeper digging cartridges and very dynamic ones, gone through from strain gauge to VdH MS Colibri strad. but none of them were this neutral for me. I am hoping to find another cartridge as neutral but with a tad more dynamic and maybe a tad more bass, if not I continue with this one.

What did you not like about it and why did you prefer the Anna diamond.

 

[tima]

I own a madake and I really like it.

Okan - I had not seen posts from you over the last few months - nice to see you around.

 

[exupgh12]

Currently have Miyajima Kansui cartridge, i love the natural sound of it, not emphasizing high over low but a bit on the warm side.
It may not have the most modern sound like other cartridges but i can listen to my table hours without getting my ears getting tired

 

[montesquieu]

I have a Madake and love it. (It follows Shilabe, Takumi and Kansui ). Where people have a problem with Miyajima stereo cartridges it often boils down to three things 1) compliance - you are never going to get the best out of one with too light an arm; 2) loading - it’s often set too low; 3) setup - the shibata tip does need some fettling.

But even at that some people still don’t ‘get’ it. I love it for it’s organic, musical sense but for some it’s just not dramatic enough. When Kedar came round he preferred my Ikeda 9TT - which I found impossible to fathom. Detailed yes, but where did the musical communication go? As a musician myself my preference is clear. The 9TT went a long time ago. I’ve had the Madake five years.

It gets its rotation with other cartridges - the Allnic Rose is very enjoyable; day to day is MSL Hyper Eminent (and I am pondering MSL signature gold). But for some music - lieder, certain jazz - the Madake remains my No1.

 

[bonzo75]

I have a Madake and love it. (It follows Shilabe, Takumi and Kansui ). Where people have a problem with Miyajima stereo cartridges it often boils down to three things 1) compliance - you are never going to get the best out of one with too light an arm; 2) loading - it’s often set too low; 3) setup - the shibata tip does need some fettling.

But even at that some people still don’t ‘get’ it. I love it for it’s organic, musical sense but for some it’s just not dramatic enough. When Kedar came round he preferred my Ikeda 9TT - which I found impossible to fathom. Detailed yes, but where did the musical communication go? As a musician myself my preference is clear. The 9TT went a long time ago. I’ve had the Madake five years.

It gets its rotation with other cartridges - the Allnic Rose is very enjoyable; day to day is MSL Hyper Eminent (and I am pondering MSL signature gold). But for some music - lieder, certain jazz - the Madake remains my No1.

I have compared miyajima stereo carts on many occasions. I call them muddyke because they color off the content and lose musical detail. I like their monos. There are many, many better stereo carts including SPUs

 

[Addicted to hifi]

I have heard miyajima cartridges at audio shows and they sounded excellent.I have only listenEd to the stereo version and it was great.

 

[Shuggie]

I have a Madake and love it. (It follows Shilabe, Takumi and Kansui ). Where people have a problem with Miyajima stereo cartridges it often boils down to three things 1) compliance - you are never going to get the best out of one with too light an arm; 2) loading - it’s often set too low; 3) setup - the shibata tip does need some fettling.

But even at that some people still don’t ‘get’ it. I love it for it’s organic, musical sense but for some it’s just not dramatic enough. When Kedar came round he preferred my Ikeda 9TT - which I found impossible to fathom. Detailed yes, but where did the musical communication go? As a musician myself my preference is clear. The 9TT went a long time ago. I’ve had the Madake five years.

It gets its rotation with other cartridges - the Allnic Rose is very enjoyable; day to day is MSL Hyper Eminent (and I am pondering MSL signature gold). But for some music - lieder, certain jazz - the Madake remains my No1.

Miyajima stereo cartridges don't always appeal to people who listen to 'HiFi', concentrate on 'sounds' and seek searing and crystalline HF extension, but as Tom says they communicate music like few other cartridge designs can, when correctly set up and sympathetically partnered with a highish mass arm and a good SUT of appropriate specification. My enduring love of Beethoven was kindled by experiencing the Triple Concerto (Beaux Arts Trio, Haitink) played with a Miyajima Shilabe and 12" Reed 3P arm, which has yet to be bettered in terms of a musical whole, even though a Phasemation PP-2000 is rather wonderful too. Although I (and Tom) prefer classical music, Miyajimas actually play Rock and even Heavy Metal music really well: they do actually 'rock' when asked.

I fully understand why Tom, with his musician's hat on, likes the Madake.

 

[bonzo75]

Miyajima stereo cartridges don't always appeal to people who listen to 'HiFi', concentrate on 'sounds' and seek searing and crystalline HF extension, but as Tom says they communicate music like few other cartridge designs can, when correctly set up and sympathetically partnered with a highish mass arm and a good SUT of appropriate specification. My enduring love of Beethoven was kindled by experiencing the Triple Concerto (Beaux Arts Trio, Haitink) played with a Miyajima Shilabe and 12" Reed 3P arm, which has yet to be bettered in terms of a musical whole, even though a Phasemation PP-2000 is rather wonderful too. Although I (and Tom) prefer classical music, Miyajimas actually play Rock and even Heavy Metal music really well: they do actually 'rock' when asked.

I fully understand why Tom, with his musician's hat on, likes the Madake.

You can find a musician who owns and likes every hifi equipment including dCS. Just search for the component you want to defend

 

[bonzo75]

Miyajima stereo cartridges don't always appeal to people who listen to 'HiFi', concentrate on 'sounds' and seek searing and crystalline HF extension, but as Tom says they communicate music like few other cartridge designs can, when correctly set up and sympathetically partnered with a highish mass arm and a good SUT of appropriate specification. My enduring love of Beethoven was kindled by experiencing the Triple Concerto (Beaux Arts Trio, Haitink) played with a Miyajima Shilabe and 12" Reed 3P arm, which has yet to be bettered in terms of a musical whole, even though a Phasemation PP-2000 is rather wonderful too. Although I (and Tom) prefer classical music, Miyajimas actually play Rock and even Heavy Metal music really well: they do actually 'rock' when asked.

I fully understand why Tom, with his musician's hat on, likes the Madake.

Also, the reference for Beethoven triple concerto should be Oistrakh. The one on Columbia is extremely rare but you might be able to get with Sargent on EMI. Devy Erlih on Ducretet Thomson

 

[leyenda]

...... When Kedar came round he preferred my Ikeda 9TT - which I found impossible to fathom. Detailed yes, but where did the musical communication go? .....

This is interesting. I had an assumption that there was production variation among the stereo Miyajimas, leading to polarizing listening experience. Maybe not...

 

[montesquieu]

I have compared miyajima stereo carts on many occasions. I call them muddyke because they color off the content and lose musical detail. I like their monos. There are many, many better stereo carts including SPUs

I can only assume you are listening for different things Ked. This may be not unrelated to your listening methodology - you come round to people's houses with a small selection of supposedly collectible pressings (not always in good condition) and you play very short snatches of music, listening for particular elements the way you like to hear them, and pronounce accordingly.

It's not surprising that the Madake fails to shine in that context. Your preference is tonally cool, detailed, hifi type of reproduction. But it's certainly not my preference.

Also the notion that there is only one 'reference' performer for any piece - let alone something by Beethoven - well really! Tastes, performing styles, interperative insight and even technique vary enormously across individuals but more importantly across the decades. To limit yourself in this way - pick a subset according to whatever narrow criteria you are applying, and ignore or disparage the rest - well it's an approach that probably fits with your way of looking at things but some of us like to keep our minds rather more open.

Incidntally I've had just about every SPU going, from early Alnico models up to and including the latest SPU Century (and the ones I haven't had, I've heard). I like them a lot. One of the reasons I moved to Glanz tonearms after Ikeda is that they work particularly well with SPU.

But what Miyajima did with the Madake has never been equalled or even closely approached by any SPU ever made. It's a genuine pity you can't hear it.

 

[bonzo75]

I can only assume you are listening for different things Ked. This may be not unrelated to your listening methodology - you come round to people's houses with a small selection of supposedly collectible pressings (not always in good condition) and you play very short snatches of music, listening for particular elements the way you like to hear them, and pronounce accordingly.

It's not surprising that the Madake fails to shine in that context. Your preference is tonally cool, detailed, hifi type of reproduction. But it's certainly not my preference.

Also the notion that there is only one 'reference' performer for any piece - let alone something by Beethoven - well really! Tastes, performing styles, interperative insight and even technique vary enormously across individuals but more importantly across the decades. To limit yourself in this way - pick a subset according to whatever narrow criteria you are applying, and ignore or disparage the rest - well it's an approach that probably fits with your way of looking at things but some of us like to keep our minds rather more open.

Incidntally I've had just about every SPU going, from early Alnico models up to and including the latest SPU Century (and the ones I haven't had, I've heard). I like them a lot. One of the reasons I moved to Glanz tonearms after Ikeda is that they work particularly well with SPU.

But what Miyajima did with the Madake has never been equalled or even closely approached by any SPU ever made. It's a genuine pity you can't hear it.

It has been very consistent in different systems. Consistently muddyke

You are wrong about my preferences, but I know your forum behavior, especially on UK forums where you developed it, in total contrast to you in person, is to put down the other person who argues with your taste. Madake is one of the most coloured carts.

And yes, I like your tannoys, you preferred the Allnic phono I sent you and you bought one for yourself with the recti change I advised, you like the silvercore 833c we heard together and bought it, and we agreed one to one on the miyajima mono carts and the SUTs.

Yet, when I say Madake is shit, which it is, you will disparage.

As for the recording, I mentioned that because Shuggie was being utterly snobbish in post mentioning classical without knowing the reference

 

[bonzo75]

The other thing, Tom, by your own admission, you listen mostly to Lieder and piano, don't like violin concertos and solos and don't listen much to lathe scale orchestra. Those two are the weakest points of the muddyke

 

[tima]

And yes, I like your tannoys

Which Tannoys do you like?

 

[bonzo75]

Which Tannoys do you like?

He has the vintage HPD 315a, 12 inch. They are very nice, modded by reference fidelity in the UK. He has been with tannoys for decades. The gold 15 inch are also very nice I have heard them separately and Tom will advise the same. Both are vintage and with mods. I haven't liked the latter Kensington, Canterbury, tunberry, and the super expensive new model.

I want to listen to Westminster well set up but am going to have to travel for that. Jeffery's mate Jim ford seems to have a promising pair.

There are vintage drivers before gold (gold drivers are where the stereo started and it went to 8 ohm, before that you had to have two mono speakers separately at 16 ohms). Black was the first, followed by silver, then red, and then gold. Tom's HPD came after gold. Black and silver are the rarest and the most expensive, hardly anyone has black. The sensitivity also steadily decreased after the black onwards. I haven't heard black and silver, and while I did hear the red the set up wasn't optimal.

 

[montesquieu]

It has been very consistent in different systems. Consistently muddyke

You are wrong about my preferences, but I know your forum behavior, especially on UK forums where you developed it, in total contrast to you in person, is to put down the other person who argues with your taste. Madake is one of the most coloured carts.

And yes, I like your tannoys, you preferred the Allnic phono I sent you and you bought one for yourself with the recti change I advised, you like the silvercore 833c we heard together and bought it, and we agreed one to one on the miyajima mono carts and the SUTs.

Yet, when I say Madake is shit, which it is, you will disparage.

As for the recording, I mentioned that because Shuggie was being utterly snobbish in post mentioning classical without knowing the reference

People listen for - and hear - different things. Lieder and chamber music - and a lot of jazz - are highly communicative disciplines, majoring on expression and timing between a small and tightly-focused group of musicians. A cartridge that captures this well - or which captures the delicate nuances (timbre, phrasing) of Renaissance lute or vihuela music - may not also necessarily provide the roller-coaster ride some people like to hear from 19th century Romantic symphonic music. That doesn't make it 'shit'.

What I object to is that on the basis of your somewhat eccentric auditioning style, you proclaim something 'shit' when it's patently not 'shit', it's just not to your taste.

Iconoclasm can be fun to read but have you ever considered it may be rude to visit someone's home, then go away and write such things, on the basis not of years of comparison, changing cartridges perhaps every few weeks after many hours of listening across multiple recordings and genres, but on short snatches of music played back to back?