Martin Logan Renaissance 15a

[Gregadd]

Given Stereophiles' review of the Renaissance 15a wherein they claim it is "full range" and that it has one of the best in frequency response they have seen ever, are the response ever are the critics finally silenced. I have not heard it myself.
I does to reflect quite an effort to address long term criticism of the design (vali!d or not)despite it's popularity.

 

[amirm]

I head the Martin Logan Renaissance 15a at Axpona. They sounded very good although not my cup of tea as I mentioned in that thread.

Note that with built-in Anthem Room Correction (sister company) it will have a far better measured response than any speaker without. I am also puzzled by JA's comment as the non-averaged measurements do not look good.

Anyway, it is the best ML speaker I have heard.

 

[Gregadd]

I head the Martin Logan Renaissance 15a at Axpona. They sounded very good although not my cup of tea as I mentioned in that thread.

Note that with built-in Anthem Room Correction (sister company) it will have a far better measured response than any speaker without. I am also puzzled by JA's comment as the non-averaged measurements do not look good.

Anyway, it is the best ML speaker I have heard.

I thought you heard them at CES? Maybe at both places?
Dare I say it? A Sanders speaker at twice the price with wide dispersion.

 

[amirm]

Yes I heard them at CES too.

I think they sound better than Sanders or they know how to play better music at shows. They certainly don't make you sit in one spot like Roger does.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

I'm waiting to be invited for a special home demo, by a very fussy personality. I have to be patient for the invite, also depends on the mood.
He's upgrading from MG20.7 with his CJ premier 350. May be returning them to the dealer and waiting for Ren15A delivery, coming from overseas. Perhaps end of month I would have an idea of what this new design offers.

Although he had to pay for DSP separately, he's quite pleased that my Ethos has built in DSP... ha! good value eh?
Cheers to ML hybrids, and definitely not a Sanders system.
Big woof, RJ

 

[twitch]

I haven't listened to the 15a yet but did so with the 13a a couple weeks back. IMO it (13a) is 'the' sweet spot in the Logan line up. Without a doubt the new Masterpiece series are the best (hybrids) to date with respect seamless panel / woofer integration. I heard them @ Overture (Wilmington, De) so you know room acoustics were top notch. Mac 601's were driving them.

 

[ack]

Did you get a feel of any cabinet vibrations? There is at least one ML video showing how recent models are made, and they start with a flat sheet of MDF, then a machine cuts grooves where the sides fold, then they apply glue in the grooves, then fold the sides to form the cabinet. That gives them the squarish look (going all the way back to the Spire and Summit perhaps), but I don't get the sense the woofer cabinets are as inert as in older ML models; certainly the Summit's woofer box was very lively. So how do the Renaissance models compare in that respect?

 

[twitch]

Did you get a feel of any cabinet vibrations? There is at least one ML video showing how recent models are made, and they start with a flat sheet of MDF, then a machine cuts grooves where the sides fold, then they apply glue in the grooves, then fold the sides to form the cabinet. That gives them the squarish look (going all the way back to the Spire and Summit perhaps), but I don't get the sense the woofer cabinets are as inert as in older ML models; certainly the Summit's woofer box was very lively. So how do the Renaissance models compare in that respect?

Much more solid, speaking as a former Spire owner the weight (13a) is almost 40 lbs greater than my Spire's. Granted the majority comes from the additional bass driver but there was zero evidence of any enclosure resonance.

 

[audio.bill]

I haven't listened to the 15a yet but did so with the 13a a couple weeks back. IMO it (13a) is 'the' sweet spot in the Logan line up. Without a doubt the new Masterpiece series are the best (hybrids) to date with respect seamless panel / woofer integration. I heard them @ Overture (Wilmington, De) so you know room acoustics were top notch. Mac 601's were driving them.

It's great that you found the Renaissance 13a so impressive, but I don't understand how you can declare that in your opinion they're "the sweet spot" in the lineup without ever hearing the 15a.

 

[twitch]

It's great that you found the Renaissance 13a so impressive, but I don't understand how you can declare that in your opinion they're "the sweet spot" in the lineup without ever hearing the 15a.

it's quite easy Bill .............15k vs. 25k and as a owner of di-poles (Maggies and Logans) for over 35 years I feel I have a real good sense of where the performance to dollar ratio fits in.

is the 15a a better speaker, of course but I'll bet donuts to dollars that given what the average listeners room size is the 13a falls into a better 'sweet spot' !

 

[Uk Paul]

Did you get a feel of any cabinet vibrations? There is at least one ML video showing how recent models are made, and they start with a flat sheet of MDF, then a machine cuts grooves where the sides fold, then they apply glue in the grooves, then fold the sides to form the cabinet. That gives them the squarish look (going all the way back to the Spire and Summit perhaps), but I don't get the sense the woofer cabinets are as inert as in older ML models; certainly the Summit's woofer box was very lively. So how do the Renaissance models compare in that respect?

This for me is where ML make a compromise as you know Peter; there are some really good materials out there now (beyond standard Medite) that they could be using at a small cost penalty. Though I've not yet heard the new models, I hope to at some point soon, though system differences always show up when doing so at shows etc..!

 

[Big Dog RJ]

G'day mates,

No luck as yet with the Ren 15 audition. I think chappy has been quite busy in travels, seems to be going back and forth Melb to Manila, more often than I do groceries... So I've given up the idea of even asking.

With Re. to the MAC amps, I have listened extensively to the MC601's and actually preferred the MC452. The MC452 delivers twice the current and compared to the mono's, to me it had more of that synergy being a stereo amp. I don't know what it is but I just seem to prefer stereo amps over big monoblocks. Anything over than 400w mark was just brute force, mostly good for demo's. I guess this is a personal preference and most no doubt others would disagree. I am also quite perplexed why ML uses MAC for most of their demo's. Nothing wrong with Mac, I think it is superb one of the most iconic American brands out there.

Perhaps it's more to do with the appearances, those bib monoblocks with big blue meters twitching away... with those large panels, definitely has a very high "looks cool" factor compared to say those smallish analog meters on ARC or Pass...

If I was going for Mac amplification, it would definitely be the MC452, and with a tube line stage, such as a CJ GAT or ACT2, that would be one superb combination in overall sonic performance. I have tried the MC452 on my previous Quad 2905's and made the Quads take off! Obviously the Quads couldn't deliver that dynamic contrast compared to ML's. Would have just loved to try this on the Ethos though.

Speaking of ML sweet spot, I think it is the Ethos that was their sweet spot. In terms of price vs performance, they beat all models including newer ones having built in DSP and powered woofers, sweet spot by a far margin!

The newer Ren series offered in Aus start at bloody 15 grand! They Ren 15 will be offered at around 45 grand upwards, I don't see any sweetness in this! Other than eating far too many sweets whiles demoing, eventually hitting the sweet spot at the dentist!

On another note, we are finally building our new home after nearly 13 years of dead rent! Hence, my priorities will change and the CLX's will be on hold for now...
Cheers to the new ML line up! Definitely a force to reckon with.
RJ

 

[es347]

..in the past having owned two prs of the Aerius i's I'm quite familiar with the narrow sweet spot. Is that still true for the new Ren 15s?

 

[twitch]

..in the past having owned two prs of the Aerius i's I'm quite familiar with the narrow sweet spot. Is that still true for the new Ren 15s?

depending on your definition of 'narrow' .......no. The new Masterpiece series is much better than previous hybrids, by a long shot. Panel to woofer integration is tops.

 

[sleepysurf]

..in the past having owned two prs of the Aerius i's I'm quite familiar with the narrow sweet spot. Is that still true for the new Ren 15s?

Electrostatic speakers typically have a narrower "sweet spot" than dynamic speakers. However, panel width plus speaker "toe-in" both affect that.

I recently upgraded from the ML Summits (11" wide panel, with essentially a one-person sweet spot) to the ML Expression 13A's. the Expressions 13" wider panel gives me a "cozy" 2 person sweet spot. I would expect the Renaissance 15" wide panel to be even better, and the CLX and Neolith better yet. That being said, "off axis" listening was still enjoyable even with the Summits (and Aerius i's that I owned prior to that). I still recommend auditioning a pair to see if it meets your needs.

 

[The Knife]

I´ve just got a pair of brand new ESL 11´s in black of course .
What speakers cable are known for making the latest range both sparkle and come with somewhat of a heavy body? Happy for any input.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Unfortunately, I cannot answer your question; I can give you only a stale data point.

I have used Martin-Logan speakers and VTL amplifiers for about 20 years. When I purchased the speakers Martin-Logan was demoing its products with Transparent Audio cables. When I purchased the amplifiers VTL was demoing its product with Transparent Audio cables.

That was a good enough for me! I bought Transparent Audio cables.

 

[The Knife]

Thanks Ron. I will check them out. Seem to be reasonable priced also!

 

[microstrip]

I second the advice for Transparent Audio with Martin Logan speakers - but please remember that in order to optimize a system using TA cables you should at minimum also use a TA IC cable between source and amplifier.

I had good results using either the Ultra and Reference cables with several ML's, a good friend is using the Super's with success.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Congrats on the ESL 11A Knife, nice one mate!

As for speaker cables, I've tried far too many brands/types to list here, across various system setups.. all I can say is having owned and sold various types of speaker systems over the decades, one thing that clearly stood out is the "synergy."

I used to mix and match cables, interconnects, and power cords before but found that there would be something a miss. Then I learned through visiting numerous private demos of dedicated audiophiles who have carefully put together superb systems, have either matched cables closely with the same brand comprising of a complete wiring loom of a particular brand and series of cables, and finishing at a higher point on the speaker cables, since this is the last point of exit of the signal, which then reaches your ears.

Therefore, the power cords were one type of series, the interconnects were matched to the power cords- same series same brand, and finally onto the speaker cables- were higher series within the same brand, and that's exactly what I did!

Since the last significant upgrade on speakers that I did in 2018, which were the CLX's, I slowly built the entire wiring loom based on Nordost cables, and ending with a higher series for the speaker cables. All power cords and interconnects are the Heimdall series 2, and the speaker wire are the Frey2 cables. With my CJ amplification and the CLX's, I've found this particular combination to be superb! There's nothing I would really need to do at this stage in order to gain any further improvements, unless I were to upgrade the monoblocks and all the wiring... which would either be the next series up, Tyr2 or Valhalla cables. Of course the Odin supreme reference series would be outstanding and I've tried them, wow! Truly remarkable but at that price point is something I really don't want to divulge in.

So to answer your question, it all depends on the rest of your gear, especially the main amplifiers, also your room and listening habits. As for my particular custom built setup in this particular room, it's Nordost all the way, afterall its about "making the connection" as their slogan goes.

This may not be to your liking, I wouldn't know but I believe it's better to maintain one particular type of cables within a certain series and go slightly higher ending at the speakers. Just my experience that's all. The synergy is far greater, more neutral and allows more of the music to flow in a purer wave form, plus ML stats are highly revealing, whatever goes in basically comes out!

Cheers and enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ