Let's talk cooking food "rare"

amirm

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Apr 2, 2010
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Living in the western world, we are pounded with the message of cooking, cooking and then cooking your food some more to kill all the germs.

So one day I am taken to a Yakitori restaurant in Ginza, Tokyo and as usually, my Japanese cohorts order for me. Next thing I know, there is a piece of chicken in front of me that is basically pink. I hesitate to eat it at first but then worry about looking like a wimp :). So I eat it.

Oh boy. I never thought chicken would be so tender. It was an extremely different experience than the overcooked version we eat which more resembles an eraser than meet.

We have a local branch of a Hawaii restaurant. They grind their own meat and by default, they server it pink in the middle. Oh boy. What juiciness. As compared to well done hamburger that is like show leather, this is flavorful and just plain at a different level of enjoyment.

I have now started to quick chicken just so. Not pink whatsoever, but a step before chewy and dry thing I used to cook.

And there is Alton Brown and cooking Pork to less than government recommended temperature.

I always have the health message in the back of my head as I to whether one day I am going to pay the price for this.

So with all the cooks and medical professionals we have here, what is the situation? Should one avoid such less than well done food and not every enjoy them as they can be enjoyed. Or is the risk overblown?
 

JackD201

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The risk is very real Amir. Unless you have full control over the produce, I would definitely follow directions. That said there are ways of cooking where one does not have to sacrifice safety for moisture and texture. Give Sous Vide cooking a try. ;)
 

Ronm1

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Let's talk cooking food "rare"

And there is Alton Brown and cooking Pork to less than government recommended temperature.
Red meat yes, the other white yes, never with poultry though. Just seems wrong to me and inviting trouble!!!
 

RogerD

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May 23, 2010
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Amir,

This is a subject that really resonates with me. About three 3 weeks ago I rotisseried a chicken cooked it till about 175 or 180 deg. My dad popped in just as me and my brother were starting to eat. The chicken was moist with clear natural juices
dripping off it. I gave a sample to my 85 year old pop and I thought he was going to spit it out. I've gotten a lecture for every day how chicken should be dry and dense in the mouth. "Hell you have to really cook chicken or you might get sick".

My Dad has always nuked everything beyond recognition. I cook all the Sunday meals now and am slowly bring him around on beef. He now likes his beef at 145 degrees instead of 200 deg. Lol,

Give me a charred rare NY strip any day. I love sushi, most I know won't even go within a 100 ft of a Sushi reaturaunt.

Sorry for the rant
 

garylkoh

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For someone whose whole family loves sashimi, always pink, always rare, but there are precautions you have to take.

Pork I cook the least raw because there are parasites in pork that can easily infect man (it seems that of all the animals we commonly eat, our biology is closest to the pig).

When I cook fish, I buy it whole and frozen if possible, and I defrost and steak or fillet it myself. My kids will only eat salmon that is "still sashimi on the inside". Oysters always raw, clams and scallops barely cooked, mussels cooked.

Chicken, if whole, can be roasted with skin crispy on the outside, and still clear, almost pink juices when you cut into the thigh. Beef, always medium rare.

Knock on wood, we've never had any problems with undercooked home-cooked food.
 

JackD201

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What Gary said.

If I might add, defrosting is typically the most dangerous time period. The best ways to safely defrost food without ruining the texture is to take the extra time and do so in the fridge or in cold water. :)

When dealing with fresh produce, always keep temperature below the danger range or the temperature where bacteria multiplies fastest.

For chicken, it is pretty much accepted that it is safe to eat when juices run clear and not when juices are all gone. It again is a time thing. Low temperatures at longer time periods make for both tender and juicy. Whether it is roast beef, turkey or just a roast chicken, cook low and slow then broil for a short interval to get a crust or crisp the skin. Here in asia, we like to slow roast and then get crispy by either deep frying or ladling with smoking hot oil. :)
 

amirm

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Apr 2, 2010
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I am with you Roger. It has take me years to have my wife tolerate things less cooked. Salmon is the biggest battle. It must be rare in the middle as Gary said. But boy, try to get some people to eat it that way. It is so luscious when done right and dry otherwise. Fortunately, living in Seattle, major restaurants know how to do it well. I mean rare. :D

I often pick the brains of sushi chefs here and in Japan about ingredients. I head hard that since Salmon lives part of its life in fresh water, it can have parasites. So you never want to eat it raw without first freezing it. I asked my local sushi Chef if it was necessary to freeze it overnight even if I catch it myself. His answer? "We freeze it for a week in Japan. Overnight is not enough!" Errr..... :(

On the side, there is a guy who sells sushi grade tuna caught the day before by our vacation house on the water. They are bleed properly with a small incision and boy, is that great.
 

RogerD

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Knock on wood, we've never had any problems with undercooked home-cooked food.

I always cook by tempeture and have never gotten sick at home. I can't say that about meals prepared commercialy, although it has been rare,thank god!
 

garylkoh

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Here in Bellevue, I'd only buy "fresh" fish from Uwajimaya. I figure that they know how to defrost the fish properly. Good sashimi is usually frozen for at least a week - even tuna is typically bled and then flash frozen on the fishing boat.

I guess one of the reasons I'm here in Seattle is because I absolutely love seafood, and the Pacific Northwest seems to be the best place in the world for seafood. A short drive up I5 to Chuckanut Drive and there's an oyster farm for the best Kumamotos I've had in the world - Japan included. Live spot prawns are easily available. Eaten alive, there is no better amaebi.
 

hiroshige

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Feb 13, 2011
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I am with you Roger. It has take me years to have my wife tolerate things less cooked. Salmon is the biggest battle. It must be rare in the middle as Gary said. But boy, try to get some people to eat it that way. It is so luscious when done right and dry otherwise. Fortunately, living in Seattle, major restaurants know how to do it well. I mean rare. :D

I often pick the brains of sushi chefs here and in Japan about ingredients. I head hard that since Salmon lives part of its life in fresh water, it can have parasites. So you never want to eat it raw without first freezing it. I asked my local sushi Chef if it was necessary to freeze it overnight even if I catch it myself. His answer? "We freeze it for a week in Japan. Overnight is not enough!" Errr..... :(

On the side, there is a guy who sells sushi grade tuna caught the day before by our vacation house on the water. They are bleed properly with a small incision and boy, is that great.

Hi Amir,

Off topic but talking about sushi I have to ask if you've found many good Sushi restaurants in Seattle. I love Shiro's, but have found few others that I've really liked. I suppose growing up in Japan has spoiled me, but I find good sushi and ramen very difficult to find around here. Any recommendations?
 

hiroshige

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Feb 13, 2011
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Hi Gary,

Actually my friends father used to be the Sushi chef and Maneki, but I've never been there myself. I am going to check it out. Also is there a name to the oyster farm you mentioned?

Thanks!
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
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Seattle, WA
Hi Amir,

Off topic but talking about sushi I have to ask if you've found many good Sushi restaurants in Seattle. I love Shiro's, but have found few others that I've really liked. I suppose growing up in Japan has spoiled me, but I find good sushi and ramen very difficult to find around here. Any recommendations?
Unfortunate as close as we are to great seafood, the quality here is not the same as what we can get for example in LA and NY. I think the locals are just not that much into Sushi or paying the high prices that may go with the ultimate quality. I have been to places in LA that easily rival and beat many sushi places in Japan. But not here. That said, I have my two favorites:

1. Izumi: http://www.izumikirkland.com/. This was the go-to place for when my Japanese team would arrive. His specialty is local seafood in season. There, you can have experiences you have not had in Japan. For example, local giant Sea Urchin that is cut open and served on a platter. Nothing out of the box here. One time we were there and he had brought fish that was farmed in Hawaii with deep sea water pumped up from hundreds of feet for the fish to live. Oh my, what fresh and clean flavor. Spot Prawns in season are nice. As is live Octopus.

Key is to be at the sushi-bar and fortunate for you, speaking Japanese :). He speaks fluent English but as you know, they will take better care if they know you are "local." I have gone there, found the counter full of Japanese and sit at the table only to have average to below average food and cold service. I have been told the chef has a mailing list you can get on and then you get notifications when there is something special that he is getting.

2. "I Love Sushi." I have had Hamachi all over Japan and elsewhere but somehow, the quality here is just better. He imports it from Japan so I can't figure out why it is so good here but it is. The other that is usually extremely good here is Hotate (scallops). Usually quite large and fresh. I like one of their cooked items: a spicy tofu dish that you must ask for as I don't think is on the menu anymore.

What I really like here is the service. When you sit at the bar and speak Japanese (assuming the Japanese chef are on staff and not the Americans), you are assured of good quality. I have had them talk me out of ordering things that are not good. And clearly serve up a better grade of sushi once they know you.

So while nothing beats going to Tsukiji and having superb sushi there or one of the many high class sushi-ya in Japan, I think we can still enjoy good sushi here.

Maybe a group of us should get together and try some of these places together. I know I need motivation to got to Seattle side of this world :). We can make rounds going to each other's favorites until we find the top place.
 

Phelonious Ponk

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Jun 30, 2010
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If you want your roast chicken quick and juicy, butterfly a whole bird. Cut out the backbone and flatten it out on a roasting pan, season, then cook for 45 minutes to an hour. It cooks fast and does not dry out. For extra goodness, slice down the center of the breast skin, fold it back out of the way and season the meat beneath (rosemary and lemon, garlic rub...). You can do the same with the legs and thighs if you're good with a knife. Then re-cover the meat with the skin, salt and pepper.

Tim
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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Seattle, WA
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Hi Gary,

Actually my friends father used to be the Sushi chef and Maneki, but I've never been there myself. I am going to check it out. Also is there a name to the oyster farm you mentioned?

Thanks!

It's one of the better Japanese restaurants I've been to. Not so much their sushi/sashimi, but everything on the menu is great! If you speak Japanese or even if you don't but can order in Japanese, they will offer you things that are not on the menu.

The oyster farm is here:
http://www.taylorshellfishfarms.com/maps/samish.html
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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I haven't been to Izumi, but I Love Sushi is great!! There used to be a wholesale sashimi place that was nearby. A couple of times that I was there buying sashimi, I saw the chef from I Love Sushi running across the car park to grab a slab of Hamachi, and running back across the car park.
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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Seattle, WA
www.genesisloudspeakers.com
If you want your roast chicken quick and juicy, butterfly a whole bird. Cut out the backbone and flatten it out on a roasting pan, season, then cook for 45 minutes to an hour. It cooks fast and does not dry out. For extra goodness, slice down the center of the breast skin, fold it back out of the way and season the meat beneath (rosemary and lemon, garlic rub...). You can do the same with the legs and thighs if you're good with a knife. Then re-cover the meat with the skin, salt and pepper.

Tim

For roast chicken, I use this:


http://www.centralchef.com/storefro...l.aspx?sid=1&sfid=125112&c=709893&i=243151440

It's a vertical roaster. There's enough space to put a container of juice or beer (I use a tall pyrex beaker) in between the 3 legs, and stick the chicken on it. Holds the chicken vertically, and in a convection oven, it does as well if not better than a rotisserie. About 40 mins for a 2lb bird at 325deg, finishing at 375deg for another 7 mins.

Served vertically, it's also easier to carve!!
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
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Seattle, WA
If you want your roast chicken quick and juicy, butterfly a whole bird. Cut out the backbone and flatten it out on a roasting pan, season, then cook for 45 minutes to an hour. It cooks fast and does not dry out. For extra goodness, slice down the center of the breast skin, fold it back out of the way and season the meat beneath (rosemary and lemon, garlic rub...). You can do the same with the legs and thighs if you're good with a knife. Then re-cover the meat with the skin, salt and pepper.

Tim
That is indeed the juiciest way I have cooked chicken. In barbecue circles we call that a spatchcock chicken. I use a large kitchen scissor made for this use to cut out the backbone easily. Otherwise, it is a major chore.

Here is a bit on the origin of the word: http://www.nakedwhiz.com/spatchdef.htm

And this story from his site:

The Tale Of How The Spatchcocked Chicken Saved The Day

One afternoon, I was cooking a couple of spatchcocked chickens on the Big Green Egg when I smelled smoke. No, this wasn't the sweet smell of hickory, but the smell of burning pine. I turned around and goodness me, my neighbor's house was on fire! It was only minutes later that I heard the approaching sirens of the fire brigade! While I kept one eye on the chickens, I watched with interest as the firemen reeled out their hoses and prepared to fight the fire.

But what's this? Oh, no! Their longest hose wouldn't reach to the fire hydrant, and they were caught with dry tanks on the pumper truck! What to do? Well, the chickens were just about done, so I placed them on a platter and ran as fast as I could next door. I found the fire chief and cried out, "Here, plunge your intake hose into the breast of this spatchcocked chicken and start pumping!" He looked at me funny, and I cried out, "Don't ask questions! Just do it!" Well, do it he did, and in no time the pumper truck was pumping gallon after gallon of chicken juice onto the fire and in no time the fire was out. Whew! That was a close call!

As soon as things settled down a bit, I offered the chickens to the exhausted firemen. I told them that the chickens might be a bit dry as we had just pumped all that juice out of the them and onto the fire, but beggars can't be choosers. So we all sat down to a dinner of spatchcocked chicken on the deck. What a sight! All those firemen were in their pants with supenders and boots lined up at the table chowing down on those poor chickens. They all claimed that these spatchcocked chickens were the JUICIEST chickens they had ever eaten, EVEN AFTER WE HAD PUMPED ALL THE JUICE OUT! So, I guess I don't see why anyone would brine a chicken to make it juicier....

:D
 

Ronm1

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I hear you guys on getting to know the innkeeper.
At my favorite sushi haunt, visited often at lunchtime with colleagues, when my sons and I(wife likes her fish cooked) would drop in later in the day and sit at the bar, the non-menu gifts were amazing. Not just the sushi and how it was uniquely prepared/plated, but the condiments and sauces too, just great.
 
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amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
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Seattle, WA
Indeed. Let's think about that. Sashimi is just a cut of the fish. No cooking, no sauce. It is all about what that piece is. The sushi chef has a choice of what part he gives you and how much. He also knows when the quality is good vs not. Getting on his good side then is critical in increasing your odds of getting the best food.
 

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