Is this serious or an infomercial

awsmone

Well-Known Member
Apr 7, 2014
1,378
234
135
Canberra Australia
#1
I was going through Daily audiophile and saw this



http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2014/08/totaldac-announce-filtered-ethernet-cable/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=totaldac-announce-filtered-ethernet-cable

I am not an electrical engineer but two things struck me

One: that ethernet in its standard is galvanically isolated

Two: they mention blocking high frequencies but ethernet operates in the gigahertz bandwidth which is quite high I thought

I suppose my thoughts were is this a serious electrical transmission issue or complete "voodoo"

They mention wifi, but since this operates at similar frequency in real data transmission scenarios, and the switching voltages are so high

Isn't this sort of issue of noise already dealt with by the standard?

Happy for enlightened comment

A
 

dallasjustice

Member Sponsor
Apr 12, 2011
2,067
4
0
Dallas, Texas
#2
The auralic can work wireless. So, I wonder what the cable guys will come up with for that? Maybe we can have special audio quality air particles for improved wireless streaming. :D

I was going through Daily audiophile and saw this



http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2014/08/totaldac-announce-filtered-ethernet-cable/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=totaldac-announce-filtered-ethernet-cable

I am not an electrical engineer but two things struck me

One: that ethernet in its standard is galvanically isolated

Two: they mention blocking high frequencies but ethernet operates in the gigahertz bandwidth which is quite high I thought

I suppose my thoughts were is this a serious electrical transmission issue or complete "voodoo"

They mention wifi, but since this operates at similar frequency in real data transmission scenarios, and the switching voltages are so high

Isn't this sort of issue of noise already dealt with by the standard?

Happy for enlightened comment

A
 
Last edited:

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
6,464
6
255
#3
A solution in need of a problem:)

Pseudo-scientific rationale to bring one more expensive Ethernet Cable to the market.The one from Denon having failed miserably .We'll see how this develops once people start hearing "music emerging from a blacker background" and noticing a "wider, deeper soundstage" ...
 

cooljazz

Well-Known Member
Mar 22, 2012
28
0
76
TN
#4
I am not an electrical engineer but two things struck me

One: that ethernet in its standard is galvanically isolated
A
Galvanically isolated? You can DC power over IP to devices which suggests no galvanic isolation. Are you perhaps confusing the AES standard?

CJ
 

Vincent Kars

WBF Technical Expert: Computer Audio
Jul 1, 2010
860
1
0
#5
The auralic can work wireless. So, I wonder what the cable guys will come up with for that? Maybe we can have special audio quality air particles for improved wireless streaming. :D
Not the cable guys of course, they can only solder a plug to a wire.
I wouldn't be surprised if one day there will be an audiophile router. Say femto clock driven radios for low jitter transmission.
Likewise low jitter Ethernet ports.
As audiophiles can hear the differences between interlinks, speaker cables and power cords they of course will hear the difference between usb cables, Ethernet cables etc.
A bussines model that works well in the analog domain , works equally well in the digital domain.
 
May 30, 2010
16,645
1,522
450
Portugal
#7
Not the cable guys of course, they can only solder a plug to a wire.
I wouldn't be surprised if one day there will be an audiophile router. Say femto clock driven radios for low jitter transmission.
Likewise low jitter Ethernet ports.
As audiophiles can hear the differences between interlinks, speaker cables and power cords they of course will hear the difference between usb cables, Ethernet cables etc.
A bussines model that works well in the analog domain , works equally well in the digital domain.
Vincent,

As long as the experts will not be able to correlate their science with the exceptional quality that we can get from some stereo high end systems, when properly tuned, any one can exploit the market weaknesses, using similar and most of the time misleading/abusive marketing techniques. Fortunately, our experience and good advice from knowledge people can help us to make our choices.
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
6,464
6
255
#9
Vincent,

As long as the experts will not be able to correlate their science with the exceptional quality that we can get from some stereo high end systems, when properly tuned, any one can exploit the market weaknesses, using similar and most of the time misleading/abusive marketing techniques. Fortunately, our experience and good advice from knowledge people can help us to make our choices.
Who are those knowledge people? And seriously how far do these people have to go before we, audiophiles cry "foul"!!?? THe audiophile community did tha witht he Denon Cat 5 cable but in retrospect it was "only' Denon a manufacturer of mostly mid-fi system . THey didn;t invoke any groundbreaking science or quantum physics ...
 

Ronm1

Member Sponsor
Feb 21, 2011
1,745
0
0
wtOMitMutb NH
#10
The auralic can work wireless. So, I wonder what the cable guys will come up with for that? Maybe we can have special audio quality air particles for improved wireless streaming. :D
Air with more air between them, with a presentation that is eerily transparent. Why its as if nothing is getting in the way.
 
May 30, 2010
16,645
1,522
450
Portugal
#12
Who are those knowledge people? And seriously how far do these people have to go before we, audiophiles cry "foul"!!?? THe audiophile community did tha witht he Denon Cat 5 cable but in retrospect it was "only' Denon a manufacturer of mostly mid-fi system . THey didn;t invoke any groundbreaking science or quantum physics ...
Frantz,

As usual, you never supply names, brands or solid facts and keep asking for them all the time ... Anyway my post was a general one and its contents are not affected by Denon or any other brand Cat 5 or your indignation ...
 
May 30, 2010
16,645
1,522
450
Portugal
#13
Is it your view that many audiophiles suffer from a sort of "Stockholm syndrome" when it comes to their cable suppliers? They love them for the "abuse"? :confused:
No. Sorry to disappoint you, but as far as I know the sequence of typical conditions needed to establish the Stockholm syndrome do not happen in the cable business.
 

Orb

New Member
Sep 8, 2010
3,010
0
0
#14
Galvanic isolation is part of the Ethernet standard.
If you do POE (Power Over Ethernet) you need a special interface on both sides.
Which standards document you going by Vincent?
Galvanic isolation is not in the 802.3 IEEE Standard for Ethernet (not that I could see but it is a 500+ page publication).
Not arguing about isolation in Ethernet products, just picking up on defining where about it is specifically specified.
Edit:
NVM, think I remember now.

Thanks
Orb
 

Vincent Kars

WBF Technical Expert: Computer Audio
Jul 1, 2010
860
1
0
#15
Never bothered to read the standard too :)

POE = IEEE 802.3af

Isolation Requirements
Switch side - According to Ethernet standard, 1500 Vac galvanic isolation is required between the
main board circuitry of the switch, including protective and frame ground, and the Media Dependent
Interface (MDI), which is the RJ-45.
IEEE 802.3af standard extends this requirement so the PoE unit resides in the switch should be
isolated from the switch's main circuits. This implies to isolated power supplies and opto-coupled
communication between the switch and the PoE circuitries, as may be seen in many applications.
http://www.microsemi.com/documents/powerdsine/whitepapers/PoE_and_IEEE802_3af.pdf

Like so many, the author of this paper states that galvanic isolation is part of the standard. 803.af add a couple more for the power part
 

Orb

New Member
Sep 8, 2010
3,010
0
0
#16
hehe :)
Regarding Ethernet from what I remember most of the isolation standards was focused on safety (and go further for external building use), rather than say signal-noise-interference; but they do state maximum levels/tolerances allowed and tbh they would be inconsequential to well done products (apart from possibly induced interference).

I used to have a wall of these freaking standards-guides-books-engineer cookbooks-etc, other half was not a happy camper that I needed a mini "library" for work.
Hmm makes something like the Amazon kindle solution sound pretty good :D

Just to say in general I am VERY leery about any power of ethernet or alternatively networking over mains solutions because this turns the house into one massive transmitter while also house mains/network circuits are critically antennas.
Some studies done have shown this does have environment (from an electrical transmission perspective) related effects.
Thanks for the info on POE, funny enough just found the 3af spec myself a little while ago out of curiosity :)
Cheers
Orb
 
Last edited:

Vincent Kars

WBF Technical Expert: Computer Audio
Jul 1, 2010
860
1
0
#17

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