Introducing Center Stage 2M

_Alchemist_

Member
May 19, 2020
43
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41
Hi Alchemist

I'll start with the last question first. This is a wild card that I can't know for sure without being there. So, my suggestion is to try a set under the component of your choice and see what happens. There is a "tell". If you put the feet under a component and the sound changes, it will eventually improve. If you here nothing........nope.

So, jumping back to the first question, you want to elevate the stock feet off the surface. Any size foot that will do that is sufficient, and yes, the 4th makes a substantial difference and I recommend it. As you mentioned, they must touch the bottom of the component. You can certainly try 3, but 4 is the earth-mover. The 4th gives you a better return on your investment for that particular component.

My recommendation is to work with the components that matter the most. The primary signal path is the best track to follow for improvement if you are just starting with these. Later, treat the power supplies with the least expensive foot that works. The general rule is that anything that plugs into an electrical outlet can benefit.

If you want to give these a try, and yes the taller the foot the better the performance, choose your dealer and tell him I gave you a money back guarantee on your 1st set. I want you to feel free to try CS2M without risk.

I've done A/B/A comparisons but it's tricky. Step 1 is to let the feet settle under a component FULLY; meaning, the sound is stable and does not fluctuate. Step 2 is to pull the feet out and go to lunch (leave the room) for about an hour / hour and a half. Step 3 is to come back and put the feet back in. Of course, you will pick and play a 5 song set to judge the A, the B and the A comparison. You won't get the full A/B, but you'll be informed by the changes enough to know that the sound would revert back to the way it originally sounded, if you leave the feet out altogether.

Believe me, it's easy to decide if you want to live with the "before" or the "after". It's an "in-your-face-difference" and you'll like it or you won't. Do not use CS2M under components with acrylic bottoms or over-damped chassis......AR Re6, ASR, Goldmund,

I hope this helps. Please let me know if I missed anything.

All the Best

Joe

Thanks for your detailed and prompt answer Joe. My dealer is a CM dealer with whom I have a good relationship, so trying the feet won't be an issue. I will report back once I have. Thanks again.
 

plasmod3

Active Member
Aug 28, 2020
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Hi Joe,

With all due respect, isn't this the third version of your product since its initial release approx. three years ago?
I am interested in these but the frequency of a new version coming out is worrying without an upgrade path. It's a destruction of value of the previous versions ++. How often Joe will you be looking to refresh the line up? Is this version here to stay for a while?
 
Last edited:

peter pan

Member
Sep 15, 2020
44
30
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21
thedudebabes:
With all due respect, given the substantial initial cost of this product and the recent release of V1, the September only upgrade time frame seems terribly unfair. You and I know many folks on this forum travel and likely don't keep in touch with "the daily news".

I was considering trying this item and I'm glad I did not. This is the type of activity that is, unfortunately, way too common in the high end industry. If V1 was not ready for primetime, they should never have been sold. It opens up the question of when V3 will be released along with the associated upgrade issues if available.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

joe answer:
Thank you for mentioning the possibility of a V3. There is no V3. CS2 can't be modified further without rolling off the top end. High frequency roll off would diminish the immersion effect. This, I would never do.

Joseph Lavrencik
President,
Critical Mass Systems
www.criticalmasssystems.com


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

not only you depreciate your customers wealth,
you devalue the trust to the entire industry!
 

nonesup

Well-Known Member
Feb 16, 2017
616
178
135
Spain
thedudebabes:
With all due respect, given the substantial initial cost of this product and the recent release of V1, the September only upgrade time frame seems terribly unfair. You and I know many folks on this forum travel and likely don't keep in touch with "the daily news".

I was considering trying this item and I'm glad I did not. This is the type of activity that is, unfortunately, way too common in the high end industry. If V1 was not ready for primetime, they should never have been sold. It opens up the question of when V3 will be released along with the associated upgrade issues if available.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

joe answer:
Gracias por mencionar la posibilidad de un V3. No hay V3. CS2 no se puede modificar más sin rodar por el extremo superior. La atenuación de alta frecuencia disminuiría el efecto de inmersión. Esto, nunca lo haría.

Joseph Lavrencik
Presidente,
Sistemas de masa crítica
www.criticalmasssystems.com


-------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -------

no solo deprecia la riqueza de sus clientes,
¡Desvalorizas la confianza a toda la
thedudebabes:
With all due respect, given the substantial initial cost of this product and the recent release of V1, the September only upgrade time frame seems terribly unfair. You and I know many folks on this forum travel and likely don't keep in touch with "the daily news".

I was considering trying this item and I'm glad I did not. This is the type of activity that is, unfortunately, way too common in the high end industry. If V1 was not ready for primetime, they should never have been sold. It opens up the question of when V3 will be released along with the associated upgrade issues if available.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

joe answer:
Thank you for mentioning the possibility of a V3. There is no V3. CS2 can't be modified further without rolling off the top end. High frequency roll off would diminish the immersion effect. This, I would never do.

Joseph Lavrencik
President,
Critical Mass Systems
www.criticalmasssystems.com


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

not only you depreciate your customers wealth,
you devalue the trust to the entire industry!
Oh! the newspaper library, how cruel it is.
 
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peter pan

Member
Sep 15, 2020
44
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pardona francisco,
i just toogled your signature and saw you are big into cms2.
think there must be an upgrade path for you!
 

nonesup

Well-Known Member
Feb 16, 2017
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One unit of each type (€ 4,580) bought only seven months ago, after reading that CMS2 were no longer upgradeable without deteriorating sound and when they were probably already developing CMS2M. Very disappointed.
 
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peter pan

Member
Sep 15, 2020
44
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21
i can only imagine how bad you feel.

i do know other people who did theyr decision based on joe`s statement/promise and spent money beyond theyr budget.

while we all love and wait for new developements, THIS IS NO FUN !!!
 

StefanT

Well-Known Member
Mar 28, 2014
24
4
233
thedudebabes:
With all due respect, given the substantial initial cost of this product and the recent release of V1, the September only upgrade time frame seems terribly unfair. You and I know many folks on this forum travel and likely don't keep in touch with "the daily news".

I was considering trying this item and I'm glad I did not. This is the type of activity that is, unfortunately, way too common in the high end industry. If V1 was not ready for primetime, they should never have been sold. It opens up the question of when V3 will be released along with the associated upgrade issues if available.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

joe answer:
Thank you for mentioning the possibility of a V3. There is no V3. CS2 can't be modified further without rolling off the top end. High frequency roll off would diminish the immersion effect. This, I would never do.

Joseph Lavrencik
President,
Critical Mass Systems
www.criticalmasssystems.com


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

not only you depreciate your customers wealth,
you devalue the trust to the entire industry!
peter pan:
In case you didn't already know, the CS 2M is already the third generation of the CS feet. First we had CS1, then came CS2 and now we have CS 2M.

I'm also disappointed that there seems to be no upgrade path or trade-in deals for existing customers of CS2 feet...:confused:
 
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nonesup

Well-Known Member
Feb 16, 2017
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peter pan:
In case you didn't already know, the CS 2M is already the third generation of the CS feet. First we had CS1, then came CS2 and now we have CS 2M.

I'm also disappointed that there seems to be no upgrade path or trade-in deals for existing customers of CS2 feet...:confused:
Of course Peter Pan knows that there are already three versions. He has republished an old post (and Center Stage's answer) when only CS1 and CS2 existed
 
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joelavrencikCMS

Industry Expert
Jul 30, 2021
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I’ve been watching the thread and waiting for all the haters to identify themselves and get it out of their system, pun intended. I’m responding in 2 threads. This thread is for clear minded reasonable readers. The next is for the haters and I apologize to you, the clear minded, in advance for what I might say to them and recommend that you do not waste your time reading it. The words will certainly be beneath you as they will be beneath me.

There are a couple of points worth covering and if you have any questions, please ask me. I enjoy responding to folks who meet the criteria of this post.

The Center Stage2M is trickle-down technology from loudspeaker feet. It is not Center Stage2. I stated this earlier, but it is worthwhile stating it again; attempting to modify the Center Stage2 foot would break the foot beyond repair. So, when I said previously that CS2 could not be upgraded, I spoke the truth. CS2 is as good as it can be.

So, why not a buyback program offering a pathway to purchasing the M on a trade in. This would have to be supported by a substantial increase in price for the new version. I decided not to do that. A “trade in” offer is supported by a large price increase and (usually) anchored in a message that says the old version is in some way flawed or deficient. Center Stage2 is neither flawed nor deficient and the price increase for CS2M is purposely minor. CS2 is a world-class product that stands on its own against any other product on the market today. Hundreds and hundreds of owners are thrilled with the performance of Center Stage2. I hear this every day. Simply put, the 2 cannot coexist because of the small price increase.

The haters want you to believe I cheated CS2 owners. Nonsense. CS2 will mark a turning point in the footer genre. No one is buying into their hate speech, with respect to CS2M. In the time they wrote their bile, over 1000 CS2Ms were sold.

There is one more very disturbing aspect to the hate posts. This is music. Not politics. The fact that anyone would inject this type of vitriol and bile into this beautiful wonder of our lives is sickening. I am an inventor. I will always try to create products that take us a step closer to reality. Deal with it.

I encourage all the haters to read my next post meant exclusively for them.
 

peter pan

Member
Sep 15, 2020
44
30
18
21
i cant really see any haters (apart from myself if you choose to see me as such)
the others are your dear clients!, expressing theyr problem in a modest way (the cs2 are discontinued, arent they? rather than the endversion as you announced).
your choice whether you want to treat them with respect or paranoid arrogance.

YOUR NEXT POST IS YOUR VERY OWN CUSTOMER SERVICE !!
 

Bobvin

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Joe, I haven’t tried your footers (yet!) but keep doing what you do. Invent, envision, test, start over, prototype, refine and when you’re ready to release something new, go for it. That some people might think the product they own and have come to love now must suck because a new version exists clearly, IMHO, are playing the audiophile game for the money vs the love.

I understand lusting for the latest, am guilty of that myself. But it doesn’t make the model I own somehow now fit for the dung-heap, its just me jonesing for more. It is an expensive hobby, there will always be (we hope) improvements. If the cost of the improvement meets your cost-benefit criteria, whatever it may be, I say go for it. If you’re playing component / tweak roulette, stay out of the new product market and stick with used, your money is better spent and won’t depreciate as much when you roll the wheel in your next component. Just don’t go assigning negative intentions — for the most part this hobby is made up of passionate people and I greatly respect those who attempt to bring products to market to improve the sound for all our systems, regardless of budget.

I just don’t see Joe intentionally wanting to screw over anyone, not what I’ve heard of him.
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 4, 2014
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I just don’t see Joe intentionally wanting to screw over anyone, not what I’ve heard of him.

I'm confused. I just read through this thread and see what was its last post above. Not sure why you wrote your post, Bob - something seems missing.

I read through this thread and I didn't hear anyone suggest anyone wanted to "screw over" anyone. I read post #30 about "haters", but have not read anyone on this thread talk about hating anything.

What's gong on? Were a bunch of posts deleted? Are these "hating comments" about something someone said on a different thread or different forum? No need to drag quarrels on other forums to WBF.

 

delphi17

VIP/Donor
Aug 6, 2021
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Been lurking and just learning quietly in the background, but decided to register to support Joe.
I also bought a set of CS2 0.8 recently.
And the improvement to my dac was something that I couldn't believe.
The improvement for me justifies the cost, and I felt it was well priced for what improvement it gave my system.

Although I would have preferred to have purchased the new version.
I feel that Joe did nothing wrong here.
He could have held on to this new improvement longer, instead he did the right thing and priced it accordingly.

Like he said, he could have priced it higher, and had two version run parallel to each other.
But he wanted people to enjoy the new improvement that he has researched.
Having the "upgrade" path would have made the new footers more expensive, then less people would be able to afford them.
That for me, shows that he truly want to innovate and bring even more musical pleasure to us.

While I won't necessary call people that are complaining haters, I do think Joe did everything with the right intention.
And I am looking forward to what the new CS2M will do for my system.
You keep doing what you do , Joe, knowing there's plenty of people like me, who are grateful for the products you make.
 

nonesup

Well-Known Member
Feb 16, 2017
616
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Spain
I’ve been watching the thread and waiting for all the haters to identify themselves and get it out of their system, pun intended. I’m responding in 2 threads. This thread is for clear minded reasonable readers. The next is for the haters and I apologize to you, the clear minded, in advance for what I might say to them and recommend that you do not waste your time reading it. The words will certainly be beneath you as they will be beneath me.

There are a couple of points worth covering and if you have any questions, please ask me. I enjoy responding to folks who meet the criteria of this post.

The Center Stage2M is trickle-down technology from loudspeaker feet. It is not Center Stage2. I stated this earlier, but it is worthwhile stating it again; attempting to modify the Center Stage2 foot would break the foot beyond repair. So, when I said previously that CS2 could not be upgraded, I spoke the truth. CS2 is as good as it can be.

So, why not a buyback program offering a pathway to purchasing the M on a trade in. This would have to be supported by a substantial increase in price for the new version. I decided not to do that. A “trade in” offer is supported by a large price increase and (usually) anchored in a message that says the old version is in some way flawed or deficient. Center Stage2 is neither flawed nor deficient and the price increase for CS2M is purposely minor. CS2 is a world-class product that stands on its own against any other product on the market today. Hundreds and hundreds of owners are thrilled with the performance of Center Stage2. I hear this every day. Simply put, the 2 cannot coexist because of the small price increase.

The haters want you to believe I cheated CS2 owners. Nonsense. CS2 will mark a turning point in the footer genre. No one is buying into their hate speech, with respect to CS2M. In the time they wrote their bile, over 1000 CS2Ms were sold.

There is one more very disturbing aspect to the hate posts. This is music. Not politics. The fact that anyone would inject this type of vitriol and bile into this beautiful wonder of our lives is sickening. I am an inventor. I will always try to create products that take us a step closer to reality. Deal with it.

I encourage all the haters to read my next post meant exclusively for them.
Just on the assumption that you include me among the "haters", I can only tell you that I absolutely disagree with it, I find it offensive and even quite stupid, since I am a customer. If I show my disappointment at having bought a product when a new one was being developed, it is my right and that does not mean that I hate you. I have never seen him call "flatterers", those who write (fair) praises of their work.
 
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BruceD

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Dec 13, 2013
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Frankly I don't why there is so many Knickers in twist over "upgrade"/trade in/lack of whatever--from what I see of pricing the "old" units are already

selling on the used market the losses are paltry compared to other so called Audiophile tweaks in the discard bin. :rolleyes:

The demand is very prevalent --kudos to the product--its obviously sound (pun!) for retaining it's value.

BruceD
 
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jeffrey_t

VIP/Donor
Jan 29, 2012
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I’ve been watching the thread and waiting for all the haters to identify themselves and get it out of their system, pun intended. I’m responding in 2 threads. This thread is for clear minded reasonable readers. The next is for the haters and I apologize to you, the clear minded, in advance for what I might say to them and recommend that you do not waste your time reading it. The words will certainly be beneath you as they will be beneath me.

There are a couple of points worth covering and if you have any questions, please ask me. I enjoy responding to folks who meet the criteria of this post.

The Center Stage2M is trickle-down technology from loudspeaker feet. It is not Center Stage2. I stated this earlier, but it is worthwhile stating it again; attempting to modify the Center Stage2 foot would break the foot beyond repair. So, when I said previously that CS2 could not be upgraded, I spoke the truth. CS2 is as good as it can be.

So, why not a buyback program offering a pathway to purchasing the M on a trade in. This would have to be supported by a substantial increase in price for the new version. I decided not to do that. A “trade in” offer is supported by a large price increase and (usually) anchored in a message that says the old version is in some way flawed or deficient. Center Stage2 is neither flawed nor deficient and the price increase for CS2M is purposely minor. CS2 is a world-class product that stands on its own against any other product on the market today. Hundreds and hundreds of owners are thrilled with the performance of Center Stage2. I hear this every day. Simply put, the 2 cannot coexist because of the small price increase.

The haters want you to believe I cheated CS2 owners. Nonsense. CS2 will mark a turning point in the footer genre. No one is buying into their hate speech, with respect to CS2M. In the time they wrote their bile, over 1000 CS2Ms were sold.

There is one more very disturbing aspect to the hate posts. This is music. Not politics. The fact that anyone would inject this type of vitriol and bile into this beautiful wonder of our lives is sickening. I am an inventor. I will always try to create products that take us a step closer to reality. Deal with it.

I encourage all the haters to read my next post meant exclusively for them.
Joe,
You make a very valid point here: "So, why not a buyback program offering a pathway to purchasing the M on a trade in. This would have to be supported by a substantial increase in price for the new version." I believe that this is the reason that every new Wilson speaker is so much more expensive than the last version; the buy back program.

While I do not own your products, I've always been impressed with the engineering and the quality of manufacture. Although the new feet seem to be superior to the older models, they do not render the older models obsolete, so I really don't see the big fuss.

Jeffrey
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I find it difficult to read some of the angry posts directed at Joe and how some are trying to demonize him. For those of us who do know him, what we can say he has a scientifically inquisitive mind always trying to make his products better. He is an inventor and those of us who do use his products know how they become system changers. When the CS 2M foot was introduced the pricing was so similar that it soon became apparent that it made no sense to have in production both feet and with that pricing there was just no available upgrade path as first off even though the CS2 and CS 2M look the same from the exterior they 2M is built from trickle down technology gleaned from his LS series of footers.

But here is what I consider important ........the CS2 was and remains an absolutely superb product and will become collector's items for their systems. Just because they have been retired does not make them bad and I would suggest that those naysayers and doubters who want to get a glimpse of Center Stage in your system to consider the CS2 as there will be a strong aftermarket supply of these as people make the move to the 2M.

Not only is this Whats "BEST" forum but we all need to come to grips with the idea that that which is BEST today will be bettered by something else tomorrow. It is the nature of our hobby and, well, just about everything else.BEST is not static but rather Dynamic so rightly or wrongly, searching for "what's Best"is a moving target. However never forget that the CS2 is an absolutely superb footer and with the market suddenly filled with these for sale, some great deals will be found. I have had mine for sale and my phone hasn't stopped ringinging these past few days. I am finding that there are existing users wanting to move up to the 2M and I have callers wanting to buy my existing CS2. So all is well with the universe and to read some of these mean posts by people who have never used the product is hurtful to me and completely unfounded in the attacks on Joe. Now lets get this thread back on topic and wait for some of the reviews that are pending. Just because the CS2 isn't made anymore doesn't make them unavailable nor does the 2M mean that the CS2 is no good. I can safely say that those who do decide to buy CS2 in the aftermarket will be thrilled with their systems. There are many CS2 users who indeed are that happy and willl keep and use the CS2 in their systems as they truly are that good
 

Bobvin

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I'm confused. I just read through this thread and see what was its last post above. Not sure why you wrote your post, Bob - something seems missing.

I read through this thread and I didn't hear anyone suggest anyone wanted to "screw over" anyone. I read post #30 about "haters", but have not read anyone on this thread talk about hating anything.

What's gong on? Were a bunch of posts deleted? Are these "hating comments" about something someone said on a different thread or different forum? No need to drag quarrels on other forums to WBF.

I just see these posts about people who bought the prior model (of anything) complaining when new products are introduced shortly after they purchase and it rubs me the wrong way. Happens in many industries. I almost bought a 2018 RAM pickup but recognized the product cycle was long in the tooth so waited. Other times I’ve been caught, and I appreciate that sometimes big depreciation hurts the buyer. The complaining would make sense if suddenly your older model was obsolete, no longer supported, didn’t work. Not the case here, but the disappointment often gets turned to the mfg as having screwed someone over.

At least thats my take and I might be completely over-thinking it. Yesterday I was very tired (cranky) because of a sleepless night. My cat was missing 3 days but I started to hear a cry, after looking for hours I found him 100’ up a fir tree. Had to leave him all night and hire an arborist to climb up and rescue him. His cries through the night kept me awake, and when I'm tired I get ornery — not in the mood for whiners.
 
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PeterA

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Dec 7, 2011
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I heard an early version perhaps the original a couple of years ago in an A B A scenario. I would be interested in reading from the beta testers of the new footers how they sound different from the previous footers.

How has the sound of your systems changed?
 

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