Introducing Center Stage 2M

joelavrencikCMS

Industry Expert
Jul 30, 2021
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@joelavrencikCMS

" Do not use CS2M under components with acrylic bottoms or over-damped chassis......AR Re6, ASR, Goldmund,"

I do not believe my T+A SDV 3100 HV chassis is "over-damped" but would like to make sure. Do you have clients using your CS 2M footers successfully under T+A HV components?

Thanks.
No worries. You'll be fine.
 

joelavrencikCMS

Industry Expert
Jul 30, 2021
59
12
8
72
Joe: Extending on the above... any additional cautions on using your CS M2 footers with Synergistic Research, in general?

For example: proximity to their cables, grounding solution, etc.?

And specifically, under the SR PowerCell?

Thanks.
No. No further cautions that I am aware of.
 

joelavrencikCMS

Industry Expert
Jul 30, 2021
59
12
8
72
Final question.

Do you recommend using your CS M2 footers on Townshend Platforms? Thank you!
I honestly don't know anything about them as I type this. I can do some research, but what do you have in mind, specifically. Can you tell me more?
 

Cyrus

Well-Known Member
Jun 15, 2018
10
0
66
@joelavrencikCMS

Thank you for answering my questions. Very helpful.

To address the question about use with Townshend Platforms:

I have a suspended hardwood floor. Homes here in New Orleans tend to be elevated, due to flooding. The floor is truly suspended, about two feet above the ground. Rather than have my monoblock amplifiers and their respective power supplies on CS M2, which would be coupled to the floor...I wonder if adding another isolating layer to deal with the floor would he helpful? I use Townshend. This is mainly/primarily to reduce footfall related vibrations. My audio room is in a common / shared area. Given the suspended nature of the floor...one can easily see the resulting vibrations on my wall mounted TV (while it is off) when I or others walk and move around the immediate area.

The amps and their power supplies need to be on the floor since my audio rack is full. I could always add (traditional) amp stands.

Here is the link to the Townshend product / solution I am using:

 

joelavrencikCMS

Industry Expert
Jul 30, 2021
59
12
8
72
@joelavrencikCMS

Thank you for answering my questions. Very helpful.

To address the question about use with Townshend Platforms:

I have a suspended hardwood floor. Homes here in New Orleans tend to be elevated, due to flooding. The floor is truly suspended, about two feet above the ground. Rather than have my monoblock amplifiers and their respective power supplies on CS M2, which would be coupled to the floor...I wonder if adding another isolating layer to deal with the floor would he helpful? I use Townshend. This is mainly/primarily to reduce footfall related vibrations. My audio room is in a common / shared area. Given the suspended nature of the floor...one can easily see the resulting vibrations on my wall mounted TV (while it is off) when I or others walk and move around the immediate area.

The amps and their power supplies need to be on the floor since my audio rack is full. I could always add (traditional) amp stands.

Here is the link to the Townshend product / solution I am using:

Thank you forvthe additional information. Yes, I think the combination would be fine with one caveat. Obviously, the Townshend feet "do something" and we want to avoid the T-feet over damping/over powering the properties of the CS2M feet. To avoid this, please make sure the CS2M feet are placed away from the T-feet. You want them decoupled. Make sense?
 

Cyrus

Well-Known Member
Jun 15, 2018
10
0
66
Thank you forvthe additional information. Yes, I think the combination would be fine with one caveat. Obviously, the Townshend feet "do something" and we want to avoid the T-feet over damping/over powering the properties of the CS2M feet. To avoid this, please make sure the CS2M feet are placed away from the T-feet. You want them decoupled. Make sense?
Thank you. This was my concern and the reason for asking.

To make sure I am understanding correctly: The CS M2s should work on the Townshend Platforms...as long as I place them as far away from the Townshend footers [which are on each corner of the Townshend Platform] as possible? In other words, towards the center of the platform?

I do not see a way to fully "decouple" ...but I can (?) minimize the impact / effect of the coupling .

Thanks.
 
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joelavrencikCMS

Industry Expert
Jul 30, 2021
59
12
8
72
Thank you. This was my concern and the reason for asking.

To make sure I am understanding correctly: The CS M2s should work on the Townshend Platforms...as long as I place them as far away from the Townshend footers [which are on each corner of the Townshend Platform] as possible? In other words, towards the center of the platform?

I do not see a way to fully "decouple" ...but I can (?) minimize the impact / effect of the coupling .

Thanks.
Your last paragraph sums it up nicely.

I'm not sure of the dimensions of the shelf, but yes, I think it is just fine. You might want to try centering the CS2Ms between the T-feet. I'd try this first and then, perhaps move them inward from that position later after they settle.....just to see if there is an improvement. But, I don't think you'll have a problem. I've done something similar before. No worries.
 

Cyrus

Well-Known Member
Jun 15, 2018
10
0
66
Your last paragraph sums it up nicely.

I'm not sure of the dimensions of the shelf, but yes, I think it is just fine. You might want to try centering the CS2Ms between the T-feet. I'd try this first and then, perhaps move them inward from that position later after they settle.....just to see if there is an improvement. But, I don't think you'll have a problem. I've done something similar before. No worries.

THANKS!
 

Drpie

Member
Feb 22, 2019
4
0
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51
Happy Birthday!!!!
Thank you Joe))

I need some advice again.
I made the first comparison of CS2M 1.0 for Lumin U1. Let me remind you that I use a Synergistic Base on TAOC racks.
I got the following results:

1. SR Base is active (connected to DC and Ground) - the sound is slightly improved compared to the stock feets;

2. SR Base is passive (disconnected from DC and Ground) - the sound has noticeably degraded;

3. Without SR Base - the sound is similar to option 2.

Which option would you choose for CS to settle down?
 

joelavrencikCMS

Industry Expert
Jul 30, 2021
59
12
8
72
Thank you Joe))

I need some advice again.
I made the first comparison of CS2M 1.0 for Lumin U1. Let me remind you that I use a Synergistic Base on TAOC racks.
I got the following results:

1. SR Base is active (connected to DC and Ground) - the sound is slightly improved compared to the stock feets;

2. SR Base is passive (disconnected from DC and Ground) - the sound has noticeably degraded;

3. Without SR Base - the sound is similar to option 2.

Which option would you choose for CS to settle down?
My guess is you're asking me what option I would choose if I wanted to settle the feet? If so, I would choose option 3, because it appears to be the least complicated.

Please let me know if I am not understanding your post.
 

paulkwan

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2016
13
3
208
I've CS2 0.8 on my dCS Bartok and Krell K-300i integrated for long. My friend borrow me his 1.5 for a month, i swap it to my Krell, and the result is so dramatic ! 2021_0922_07232400.jpg

Maybe the Krell 52lb weight benefit from the bigger foot. Anyway i can't afford the CS2 1.5, so thinking about CS2M 1.0 when it is available at my area.
 

nenon

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2020
85
324
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As for resale value, those of you who are complaining about the paltry resale value again are misguided. These sell like hot cakes on the resale market and return at least 50% on initial investment which IMO is as good or better as most audio products such as cables or power cords etc, etc
I would love to get some used CS2 footers if anyone is upgrading and willing to sell at 50%. If anyone has some, please send me a PM.

Just installed a set of CS2 1.0 under my phono stage and like what I hearing right off the bat. Prepared to go through some degradation and goodness after that, but it's good that they were an improvement immediately.

A question about the CS2M that I could not find an answer for:
If you have to pick between 3 pieces of CS2M 1.5 or 4 pieces of CS2M 1.0, what will be the better choice (assuming they both fit fine)? The 1.5s are better than 1.0. But 4 is better than 3. @joelavrencikCMS might be the only person who can answer that as I suspect people don't spend months to run these types of experiments.

Also, do used CS2 footers settle faster than brand new ones? Or it does not matter whether they are used or new and just need to go through their thing every time you install them under a new component?
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
the footers are sold in sets of 4 only

If both fit I would for sure use the CS2M 1.5 but again you can only buy them insets of 4
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I had 10 sets of CS2 1.0 that were listed in the classifieds and they sold out in 2 days at a 50% reduction from MSRP.

The CS2 is still a fabulous piece of equipment
 

sbo6

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2014
1,239
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Round Rock, TX
Long thread, wow, too much to read. I am the recipient of some of Steve's CS2 1.0 footers still in the break - in period and now under my amps. So far it's been a bit of a whirlwind over the past 48 hours break - in. I did hear some goodness after an hour or so break in but then it went all over the place. Like Steve I have tubes but only 2 in my preamp and I replaced them with my backup set to break in and run the system 24 x 7. No more listening until Friday night which will be a full week break - in.

To be frank, IME without extremely quick AB compares it's so incredibly hard to tell what's changing with our very limited audible memory even on tracks we know. But I do believe you can get a sense of what's changing. For me, the only way to quantifiably tell the delta between my previous footers - Stillpoint Ultra SS which are under the rest of my system and require no break - in to my recollection is first put back the better tubes, then after a bit or warmup, pick a track, play it with the 7 day break - in of the CS2s (under mono blocks) and immediately replace the CS2 with the original Stillpoints, playing the same track. With the Stillpoints next to the amps ready to reinsert and with help of a family member I can make the swap in less than 2 minutes.

Will be happy to report back in about 4 days.
 
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sbo6

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May 19, 2014
1,239
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Round Rock, TX
Steve

i thought you were going to remove all Stillpoints from your system
No sir, I decided to see the difference exclusive to the amplifiers with everything else left steady state - CS2s versus Stillpoints.
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 4, 2014
3,116
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To be frank, IME without extremely quick AB compares it's so incredibly hard to tell what's changing with our very limited audible memory even on tracks we know.

Yes, I realize some people do not believe they can compare two pieces of equipment without a quick A/B switch.

If you learn the characters of gear in your system it becomes relatively easy to compare two pieces of equipment. But it requires patience. Listen to your system without footer A and then with footer A. Record your observations. Wait a day. Listen to your system without footer B and then with footer B. Record your observations. Do that cycle again to learn what you might have missed. Part of the key is writing down what you hear when you hear it. If you then want to do an A/B/A, you should be confirming what you now already know.
 
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sbo6

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May 19, 2014
1,239
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Round Rock, TX
Yes, I realize some people do not believe they can compare two pieces of equipment without a quick A/B switch.

If you learn the characters of gear in your system it becomes relatively easy to compare two pieces of equipment. But it requires patience. Listen to your system without footer A and then with footer A. Record your observations. Wait a day. Listen to your system without footer B and then with footer B. Record your observations. Do that cycle again to learn what you might have missed. Part of the key is writing down what you hear when you hear it. If you then want to do an A/B/A, you should be confirming what you now already know.
I partially agree, but as always devil is in details. Even knowing the character of your gear it's almost impossible to discern minor differences whether listening long term, short term, writing down or not. Bigger differences, yes, they can be heard irrespective of the comparison window. Ultimately, it's all opinion as there's no scientific proof unless blind testing is properly done which, let's face it, almost none of us perform. But we do our best to be as objective and clinical as possible to make best choices.
 
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sbo6

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2014
1,239
269
340
Round Rock, TX
Long thread, wow, too much to read. I am the recipient of some of Steve's CS2 1.0 footers still in the break - in period and now under my amps. So far it's been a bit of a whirlwind over the past 48 hours break - in. I did hear some goodness after an hour or so break in but then it went all over the place. Like Steve I have tubes but only 2 in my preamp and I replaced them with my backup set to break in and run the system 24 x 7. No more listening until Friday night which will be a full week break - in.

To be frank, IME without extremely quick AB compares it's so incredibly hard to tell what's changing with our very limited audible memory even on tracks we know. But I do believe you can get a sense of what's changing. For me, the only way to quantifiably tell the delta between my previous footers - Stillpoint Ultra SS which are under the rest of my system and require no break - in to my recollection is first put back the better tubes, then after a bit or warmup, pick a track, play it with the 7 day break - in of the CS2s (under mono blocks) and immediately replace the CS2 with the original Stillpoints, playing the same track. With the Stillpoints next to the amps ready to reinsert and with help of a family member I can make the swap in less than 2 minutes.

Will be happy to report back in about 4 days.
As promised here is my assessment.

A few details: I felt that the only / best way to A/B/A is to let the CS2s break in, listen to 1/2 a known highly resolving full range track with primarily acoustic instruments, then quickly (but safely) raise the amps, first front, then back and insert the Stillpoint Ultra SS without moving the CS2s and listen to the same 1/2 track. Since the CS2s are shorter than the Stillpoints I was also able to go back and listen to the CS2s by reversing the aforementioned footer install procedure. I was concerned that with no weight on the CS2s after the Stillpoints listen that the CS2s might need to be re - broken in, but that's not what I found. It was identical to the sound after ~7 day break - in. Below are my notes that I captured real time:

4: CS2s versus 4: Stillpoints Ultra SS. Track - Michel Camilo - Triangulo, Tel Arc CD, Song: Piece of Cake

- Referencing the CS2s vs. Stillpoints:

- overall more organic, less metallic

- a bit more attack /dynamics

- bass a tad tighter

- wood sounds more like wood (wood block in song)

- high hat open and closed yields a bit more detail, delineation between open and closed within the short decay.

- depth / forward instrument positioning are a bit different. CS2s brought the wood block further forward but the piano which is panned left further back and to a bit further left (essentially behind the speaker). Which is right, who knows…

Net: Upon first listening to the Stillpoints, there was no outright night and day glaring change. But upon more critical listening the CS2s were better because multiple facets were better. For me, the slightly more "analog" sound and other benefits mentioned above are gravy but the keeper is the lack of the slight bite / tininess on instruments / vocals that seems to be 90% gone. For me that is worth the investment. Whether the CS2 are fully broken in is TBD, if they continue to improve, even better.

Edit - I should have added that I could see how replacing Stillpoints with the CS2s under every component versus just under the amps would further augment their goodness. I may just pursue that route, funds permitting. ;-)

Steve
 
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