HP- Why I Quit the Absolute Sound or: Path to Personal Revelation

[caesar]

I don't know about you guys, BUT when I read a MAJOR RAVE UP of a piece of gear, then I tend to have VERY HIGH expectations for that piece of gear. As such, I hold it to a higher level than I might have otherwise. Almost invariably said piece of gear falls flat and cannot live up to the hype. That usually doesn't sit well with me and I quickly discount it in favor of the competition.

DaveyF, that is exactly what has happened to me. I listened to Magico many, many times, in different rooms, with different amps, etc., and I intellectually understand why people like it, but don't emotionally connect to Magico.

I know a lot of guys run their Magicos with warm amps, including Harley. But no matter how much you try to cuddle with a cold-blooded lizard, that reptile is not going to turn into your dog. So I think a lot of this praise is undeserved. I know they are successful and many people like them. I think that's great. God bless those people. Life is a bitch, and if you can find something that makes it even a teeny, teeny bit better, you should go for it. But there are dozens and dozens of other hard working gear manufacturers who have been ignored due to Magico sucking up the air. Now I wouldn't go with a box speaker. I like open designs like Nola, MBL, stats, etc. If I did it would be TAD. But take the other metal box speaker, YG. Their Carmel or Kipod sounds much more natural than a Magico when run with tubes. And still the Magico gets the constant praise!

 

[Andre Marc]

DaveyF, that is exactly what has happened to me. I listened to Magico many, many times, in different rooms, with different amps, etc., and I intellectually understand why people like it, but don't emotionally connect to Magico.

I know a lot of guys run their Magicos with warm amps, including Harley. But no matter how much you try to cuddle with a cold-blooded lizard, that reptile is not going to turn into your dog. So I think a lot of this praise is undeserved. I know they are successful and many people like them. I think that's great. God bless those people. Life is a bitch, and if you can find something that makes it even a teeny, teeny bit better, you should go for it. But there are dozens and dozens of other hard working gear manufacturers who have been ignored due to Magico sucking up the air. Now I wouldn't go with a box speaker. I like open designs like Nola, MBL, stats, etc. If I did it would be TAD. But take the other metal box speaker, YG. Their Carmel or Kipod sounds much more natural than a Magico when run with tubes. And still the Magico gets the constant praise!

You know I wonder why more mastering and recording studios don't use Magicos given their nature.

BTW, a lot of people get smitten by Magico because of Alon Wolf. His steadfast belief in his designs is impressive.

Personally, the speakers that sound most natural to me are those with thin walled cabinets, like Harbeth.

 

[caesar]

You know I wonder why more mastering and recording studios don't use Magicos given their nature.

BTW, a lot of people get smitten by Magico because of Alon Wolf. His steadfast belief in his designs is impressive.

Personal charisma is a very interesting topic. Check out this short video and tell me if this woman is charismatic. See if you can listen for just 45 seconds....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOFMRWUloIc

To most of us on this site, I would bet not. But to many middle class and lower middle class women she was (is) extremely charismatic. The woman is the late Mary Kay Ash, a hugely successful entrepreneur that started one of the most successful cosmetics businesses in the world. She was (is) a goddess to many women who sell and buy her products. The reason is that charisma is attributed to the individual and not a natural phenomena. It is always the case. It's no different for audiophiles. Those who hear terms like "ruler flat measurements", "low cabinet distortion", etc., get aroused because for them that's what's it's all about. So those guys attribute charisma to Alon Wolf because they like what he is saying. (God bless them, by the way, if that's what they like. We all have different things that turn us on.)

 

[mauidan]

You know I wonder why more mastering and recording studios don't use Magicos given their nature.

BTW, a lot of people get smitten by Magico because of Alon Wolf. His steadfast belief in his designs is impressive.

Personally, the speakers that sound most natural to me are those with thin walled cabinets, like Harbeth.

Why don't you ask Bruce, who just got his new WA Alexias.

I thought about getting a pair of Harbeth 40.1 before I got my current speakers, but I would have got cabinet noise like this:




Instead of this:

 

[DaveyF]

Interesting graphs there devert. Having heard a well set up pair of Harbeth 40.1's, I can tell you that the sound or lack of of the cabinet, is clearly not all that it's made out to be. IMHO, it certainly is NOT all that one needs to consider in the performance characteristics of a speaker.

 

[Andre Marc]

Why don't you ask Bruce, who just got his new WA Alexias.

I thought about getting a pair of Harbeth 40.1 before I got my current speakers, but I would have got cabinet noise like this:

View attachment 9432


Instead of this:

View attachment 9433

Have you heard 40.1s?

Do you really think you can "hear" cabinet "noise"? I don't know, I am asking honestly.

 

[Andre Marc]

Interesting graphs there devert. Having heard a well set up pair of Harbeth 40.1's, I can tell you that the sound or lack of of the cabinet, is clearly not all that it's made out to be. IMHO, it certainly is NOT all that one needs to consider in the performance characteristics of a speaker.

+1.

Do violin bodies resonate? Do guitars resonate? Do cellos resonate? Do drums resonate?

The answer is yes.

 

[mauidan]

Interesting graphs there devert. Having heard a well set up pair of Harbeth 40.1's, I can tell you that the sound or lack of of the cabinet, is clearly not all that it's made out to be. IMHO, it certainly is NOT all that one needs to consider in the performance characteristics of a speaker.

The 40.1 are wonderful speakers, but they just don't disappear.

I alway felt like I was listening to big boxes.

 

[Andre Marc]

The 40.1 are wonderful speakers, but they just don't disappear.

I alway felt like I was listening to big boxes.

Hmmm. That was not my experience. But I respect your findings. What was the set up?

 

[Andre Marc]

The 40.1 are wonderful speakers, but they just don't disappear.

I alway felt like I was listening to big boxes.

Also, personally I would never use a graph to help choose a loudspeaker. The ears don't lie!
But I do understand that they can be an interesting tool.

 

[Andre Marc]

Personal charisma is a very interesting topic. Check out this short video and tell me if this woman is charismatic. See if you can listen for just 45 seconds....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOFMRWUloIc

To most of us on this site, I would bet not. But to many middle class and lower middle class women she was (is) extremely charismatic. The woman is the late Mary Kay Ash, a hugely successful entrepreneur that started one of the most successful cosmetics businesses in the world. She was (is) a goddess to many women who sell and buy her products. The reason is that charisma is attributed to the individual and not a natural phenomena. It is always the case. It's no different for audiophiles. Those who hear terms like "ruler flat measurements", "low cabinet distortion", etc., get aroused because for them that's what's it's all about. So those guys attribute charisma to Alon Wolf because they like what he is saying. (God bless them, by the way, if that's what they like. We all have different things that turn us on.)

I understand where you are coming from. But I have had many people tell me that they found Wolf impressive even they disliked his speakers.

He has certain confidence that is very intimidating.

 

[DaveyF]

The 40.1 are wonderful speakers, but they just don't disappear.

I alway felt like I was listening to big boxes.

Like Andre asked, what was the set up that you heard the 40.1's with? When I had the pleasure of hearing the 40.1's they completely disappeared and we were left with a very nice image of the stage. The only thing that I do think is mandatory with a pair of 40.1's is a large listening space to hear them in. I can well imagine that in a room that is too small for them, that they could suffer from what you describe. Like many larger speakers, I'm pretty sure that the size of the room is going to be paramount, the 40.1s are definitely in this category.. too small a room and the sound will suffer.

 

[mauidan]

Andre & DaveyF,

I'm sorry, for taking this thread OT, especially since I'm the OP.

It should only be about HP and his contributions to the world of HiEnd audio, not the Harbeths or any other speakers.

If you really need to know more about my experience with the Harbeths, PM me.

 

[NorthStar]

Methinks that as long as the discussion is informative, interesting, good humor, on solid foundations, well grounded, well calibrated, under control, well behaved, intelligent, fun, amicable; then we can afford some bifurcations here and there.

...Just like music: It's here, and there. :b

 

[NorthStar]

... "Engaging", that's the magic word.
...Just like HP has always been before at The Abso!ute Sound, and still is now at his new 'domain'.

 

[untangle]

How does the business model of Consumer Reports work without advertising? There must be some big publisher backing them somehow.

Circulations: Stereophile = 70K, Car&Driver = 1.3M, Cons Rpts = 7M+

I don't know what the ratios of fixed-to-variable costs are for each, but the economies of scale are vastly different.

If SP or TAS had $70M+ in revenue, they could just buy their review equipment (and then sell it on A'gon!).

Bob

 

[NorthStar]

Numbers (circulation), and numbers (dollars) are always major parts of all decision making in our audio hobby.
...And particularly for the audio reviewers and writers, like HP.

Bigger numbers, more philosophy freedom. ...And very important: your team, and your readers.

Are 7 millions of people 'smarter' than 70,000 people?

 

[caesar]

Numbers (circulation), and numbers (dollars) are always major parts of all decision making in our audio hobby.
...And particularly for the audio reviewers and writers, like HP.

Bigger numbers, more philosophy freedom. ...And very important: your team, and your readers.

Are 7 millions of people 'smarter' than 70,000 people?

Easy one. 70,000 could easily be a lot smarter than 7 million people, if they are diverse - not superficially diverse, but intellectually diverse.

 

[caesar]

I understand where you are coming from. But I have had many people tell me that they found Wolf impressive even they disliked his speakers.

He has certain confidence that is very intimidating.

Obviously it works on wonders on his dealers and reviewers.

 

[Bill Hart]

Circulations: Stereophile = 70K, Car&Driver = 1.3M, Cons Rpts = 7M+

I don't know what the ratios of fixed-to-variable costs are for each, but the economies of scale are vastly different.

If SP or TAS had $70M+ in revenue, they could just buy their review equipment (and then sell it on A'gon!).

Bob

Helps put our little 'hobby' into perspective, in terms of the size of the market.
So, this takes us back to the need for long-term loans to extract the most from the equipment (with which I tend to agree, based on my own experience).
Short term loans are easy, at least from manufacturers willing to submit their products to a review process.* And, I suspect that private owners might be willing to loan their gear for a short time for a review, so long as they were comfortable that it wouldn't get banged up or abused.

______________________
*This assumes that the reviewing process subjects the gear to real scrutiny and is not simply another form of marketing.