Horns+Tubes+Vinyl and digital too- Listening Room 2- Near field setup

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
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Very nice David!

Are you able to advise on whether the MS8000 armboard is an AX-6G drilled for an SME mount?

If it is, is it a sonic improvement over the AX-4G that is normally used with the SME arm?

Thanks
Taksil

They're the same thing just cut for different arms, no difference.

david
 

jeffrey_t

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Jan 29, 2012
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David,
Have you had a chance to listen to any of the latest generation JBL flagships (DD66000 or DD67000)? Curious as to any impressions you might have.
 

ddk

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David,
Have you had a chance to listen to any of the latest generation JBL flagships (DD66000 or DD67000)? Curious as to any impressions you might have.

I recently heard the DD66000 at a friends house and its another fantastic Greg Timber speaker Jeff, I don't think that the man even knows how not to design wonderful. There's only one negative for me and it has to do with the speakers sensitivity, or lack of it. All the K2s since the M9500 require more power to come to life and unfortunately SETs don't cut it anymore but if you're fine with other amplifiers then its a must listen for anyone looking for top speaker.

david
 
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spiritofmusic

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I recently heard the DD66000 at a friends house and its another fantastic Greg Timber speaker Jeff, I don't think that the man even knows how not to design wonderful. There's only one negative for me and it has to do with the speakers sensitivity, or lack of it. All the K2s since the M9500 require more power to come to life and unfortunately SETs don't cut it anymore but if you're fine with other amplifiers then its a must listen for anyone looking for top speaker.

david

David, I'm running Nat Audio SE2SE 70W/ch SETs using 1948 NOS GE 211's, and they have a fantastic combination of delicacy and muscularity. Nat Audio also provide 120W/ch Transmitters SETs using a Phillips tetrode, and the quite scary 170W/ch Magmas SETs using the largest commercial tube used in an audio design.

Do you feel either of these would work w/the JBLs horns, or do they have particularly difficult low impedance demands, as well as sensitivity issues, that will preclude even these uber powerful SETs from being suitable?

I ask, because I'm pretty much devoted to the idea of a final move being to horns w/my Nat SETs, and atm Avantgarde Duo Mezzos or Trios/Basshorns are the only alternatives on my shortlist in addition to my current Zu Def4s.
 

ddk

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David, I'm running Nat Audio SE2SE 70W/ch SETs using 1948 NOS GE 211's, and they have a fantastic combination of delicacy and muscularity. Nat Audio also provide 120W/ch Transmitters SETs using a Phillips tetrode, and the quite scary 170W/ch Magmas SETs using the largest commercial tube used in an audio design.

Do you feel either of these would work w/the JBLs horns, or do they have particularly difficult low impedance demands, as well as sensitivity issues, that will preclude even these uber powerful SETs from being suitable?

I ask, because I'm pretty much devoted to the idea of a final move being to horns w/my Nat SETs, and atm Avantgarde Duo Mezzos or Trios/Basshorns are the only alternatives on my shortlist in addition to my current Zu Def4s.

On paper everything looks perfect and they should be able to drive the Everests but then there's reality, there's not enough information on their site to make even any kind of an educated guess, and I don't know anything about NAT Audio or their products. The JBLs aren't a difficult load but they still need a certain amount of current, I have no opinion about this combination you need to put them together and see. Only thing I will say is to look at those power ratings carefully, looking at those tubes and their chassis I don't see anything close to those numbers possible in a real world situation, driving real speakers. This is one of those cases that 3rd party lab measurements are needed.

david
 

KeithR

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On paper everything looks perfect and they should be able to drive the Everests but then there's reality, there's not enough information on their site to make even any kind of an educated guess, and I don't know anything about NAT Audio or their products. The JBLs aren't a difficult load but they still need a certain amount of current, I have no opinion about this combination you need to put them together and see. Only thing I will say is to look at those power ratings carefully, looking at those tubes and their chassis I don't see anything close to those numbers possible in a real world situation, driving real speakers. This is one of those cases that 3rd party lab measurements are needed.

david

I agree- despite it being PSET, I'd want to see NAT's freq vs distortion curve for sure. In fact, usually 211s are lower power than 845s. I know Mastersound's 845 Evolution is spec'd at like 50 watts.
 

spiritofmusic

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Nat SETs are truly special. How many SET tube amp makers do you know have models that provide power ratings of 70W/120W/170W. The latter Magma is one scary tube.
But I concur these JBLs are probably as difficult a load as eg Vivid Giyas, in not really being SET-friendly.
 

ddk

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Nat SETs are truly special. How many SET tube amp makers do you know have models that provide power ratings of 70W/120W/170W. The latter Magma is one scary tube.
But I concur these JBLs are probably as difficult a load as eg Vivid Giyas, in not really being SET-friendly.

Actually the JBLs are an easier load than the G1 just not particularly SET friendly. As I mentioned I'm not familiar with NAT or any of their products just those wattage ratings look somewhat optimistic and would be good to see some measurements. Then you'll know if they can drive the Everest or not.

david
 

bonzo75

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I agree- despite it being PSET, I'd want to see NAT's freq vs distortion curve for sure. In fact, usually 211s are lower power than 845s. I know Mastersound's 845 Evolution is spec'd at like 50 watts.

There are a lot of 211s over 50. Airtight, Lampi, Cary, many more. NAT is good at high current and can drive planars.
 

ddk

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May 19, 2013
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There are a lot of 211s over 50. Airtight, Lampi, Cary, many more. NAT is good at high current and can drive planars.

I can tell you from experience that the Cary, Airtight & the other uber Japanese SET claiming 150 watts run out of steam pretty quickly even with the benign JBL M9500...

david
 

cdk84

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Dec 19, 2015
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Hi David,

Thanks so much for your response and for posting your systems on WBF.

After a couple of months I will try setting up a second system based on Klipschorns. Have you heard them set up to good effect? I'm most interested in your experience.

When I made the selection for my primary system it was based on years of looking, and on the premise that I would buy the best I could afford and invest my time and resources in bringing that gear to its ultimate level of performance. Not having extreme dollars to spend in a system, I chose the best I could discern. Given what I know, and continue to learn, about the paramount importance of setup and room treatment, I'm happy to live with maximizing the performance level of what I have. I don't consider the TT a fixed part of the system, nor the tonearm, cartridge, cables or power conditioning.

Cheers, and thanks again,

David
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
5,448
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770
Utah
Hi David,

Thanks so much for your response and for posting your systems on WBF.

After a couple of months I will try setting up a second system based on Klipschorns. Have you heard them set up to good effect? I'm most interested in your experience.

When I made the selection for my primary system it was based on years of looking, and on the premise that I would buy the best I could afford and invest my time and resources in bringing that gear to its ultimate level of performance. Not having extreme dollars to spend in a system, I chose the best I could discern. Given what I know, and continue to learn, about the paramount importance of setup and room treatment, I'm happy to live with maximizing the performance level of what I have. I don't consider the TT a fixed part of the system, nor the tonearm, cartridge, cables or power conditioning.

Cheers, and thanks again,

David

What you have to be careful about is buying an unmodified one, also different generations came with different drivers some better than others. The weakest part of the Klipsch's was the crossover which aren't that difficult to upgrade and you'll have a fantastic pair of speakers.

david
 

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