HDMI cable question

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Hi Lloyd,

I haven't read this whole thread...how important is this cable? Feeding a main tv for all to view? I use Transparent Hi Perf HDMI. The picture is visibly better. Even my wife said did you buy a new tv?!? I have a 50ft run to my projector in my listening room. As well as a few 1-2m runs for the other tv's in the house. You can also buy active versions which may help for your 4k requirement.

I will say, from my experience, you get what you pay for. Not saying these are a "good buy" but you'll be happy with their performance.

http://store.transparentcable.com/hdmi-cables/high-performance/active-hdmi/

+FEATURES
Certified High Speed HDMI compliant.
Outstanding performance up to 65 feet.
Supports uncompressed 1080p 60Hz video.
Supports 3D Video, 4K x 2K resolutions and Deep Color.
Supports all HD lossless audio formats.
Data transfer up to 18 Gbit/sec to support future formats.
Includes a special mounting kit that provides a stable, reliable connection at both ends of the cable where it plugs into your components. Kit has 2 mounting brackets, all necessary hardware, and is easy to install.

Thanks, Jfrech! This 35 foot cables is the ONLY way we watch movies or tv in the house...via front front-view projector onto large screen. So it is important...but i'd like it white so that it blends in against the mouldings which are white. (Contractor's mistake...the original hdmi cable which was put into the walls was directional, and they put it in BACKWARDS, so it does not work, and the risk of trying to pull 40+feet of cable is dangerous at this stage...so we HAVE to put this new cables on the OUTSIDE, not thru the walls).

I guess we could install and paint it? How much is a TA cable?
 

jfrech

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Sep 3, 2012
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Can of spray paint = $8USD :)

40ft is $1000 usd. I am sure you can special order 35ft and save a little bit. But given your application, I think you may want to consider a cable like this. Your eyes will notice it. If you're skeptical, order a 1m for a bedroom tv and try it...my son always steals my 1 meter for his playstation...notice it on games too.

I know plenty of folks won't agree ... but did they actually try it and see with their own eyes...
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Can of spray paint = $8USD :)

40ft is $1000 usd. I am sure you can special order 35ft and save a little bit. But given your application, I think you may want to consider a cable like this. Your eyes will notice it. If you're skeptical, order a 1m for a bedroom tv and try it...my son always steals my 1 meter for his playstation...notice it on games too.

I know plenty of folks won't agree ... but did they actually try it and see with their own eyes...

Thanks! Will take a look.
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 3, 2010
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I know plenty of folks won't agree ... but did they actually try it and see with their own eyes...
Sure. Countless times with many brands. This is what they say about their cable:

"Transparent High Performance Active HDMI video cable gives your home theater system a cleaner, brighter picture with more vibrant, lifelike colors and rich, dynamic sound from your music and movies."

Even if those effects were true, you do not want such a cable. Video is calibrated to a standard. You cannot make it brighter without now being out of calibration. Ditto for color vibrancy and richness. Even the most diehard videophile would not believe such changes are possible due to cables as we use instruments for calibration and no change is measured here.

Lloyd, in general I would not use any HDMI cable that has active electronics that rely on power from HDMI. HDMI has a 5 volt supply that is designed for "hot plug" meaning detecting there is a device plugged in or not. That line cannot and must not be used to power anything. Doing so may cause failures because some devices put out far less current than others.

Of course many of these cables work but if you want to be on the safe side, don't go there :).

As to what brand to get, I hesitate to recommend one in case it doesn't work. :) I suggest buying them locally so that you can easily return them. Since this is for external application, trying different options will be easy. You can also buy through Amazon if you are OK with return policy.

Happy holidays everyone.
 

jfrech

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Sep 3, 2012
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Even if those effects were true, you do not want such a cable. Video is calibrated to a standard. You cannot make it brighter without now being out of calibration. Ditto for color vibrancy and richness. Even the most diehard videophile would not believe such changes are possible due to cables as we use instruments for calibration and no change is measured here.

Hmm.

PS, my projector was calibrated. And the picture was better after a 2nd calibration & with the better HDMI cable...
 

amirm

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Apr 3, 2010
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Hmm.

PS, my projector was calibrated. And the picture was better after a 2nd calibration & with the better HDMI cable...
You had to calibrate again because of the different HDMI cable? If so, did the calibrator give you a before and after report?
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
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Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
Hi Northstar,

Sorry to bother you...how about this one? Its got 713 Amazon rankings (623 5-star, 71 4-star), is totally white...and is 35 bucks for a 10m run.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product...act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1T39SA8AUFT6J

- GENUINE 24 AWG gauge cable for ZERO-LOSS HD performance over distance
- HDMI High-Speed with Ethernet and Audio return - Full feature 3D - 1080p - 4K UHD (2160p/30hz) - ( v1.4 Ethernet Channel )
- Neet custom design Heavy-Duty housing with strain relief. High-spec 24k Gold-plated connectors. Extra heavy-duty Oxygen-Free Copper conductors.
- Manufactured by Sony Green Partner. RoHS compliant. HDCP compliant. Specialist customer support.
- Neet® Specialist customer support...apparently, they are a family owned business who operate exclusively thru Amazon and their customer service is very good
- LIFETIME CABLE WARRANTY

Merry Christmas Lloyd!

I thought those were some of the specs to look for:
- 4K@60Hz (3840x2160@60Hz) resolution* (the one in your link indicates @30Hz)
- 18Gbps Bandwidth* (the one in your link indicates 15.2Gbps)

But I'll ask over @ AVS just to see if someone is familiar with that HDMI cable you just linked. I'll report back if any positive reply.

Also, with HDMI connections and cables it is important to set things right; like the order your turn all your components On. ...For the best handshake possible between them. And when programming with a universal remote control (Harmony, Universal, ...) a certain amount of delay is often required for each component in their order. ...Like it could be two seconds, or more...like five. With 4K now I would give prime importance on the delay aspect.
______

EDIT: UHD Blu-ray and Long HDMI cables - what works !

- On the last post of that above thread I just asked about the cable you just mentioned...10-meter run.
That's the best thread on this subject/topic.

- I also asked on that "Transparent" active HDMI cable from jfrech's provided link.
 
Last edited:

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Thanks, Northstar!
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
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698
Thanks Bob!!! I will consider Neet White 10m and speak with the audio engineer.
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 3, 2010
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And that Lloyd, was the reply I got so far from the two posts above his: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...g-hdmi-cables-what-works-16.html#post49278641 → username: Otto Pylot
I don't know why he is talking about input damage when he says "Cables that use Redmere technology are designed for that very purpose, to draw a little bit of power from the HDMI input without damaging the input." That is not the issue. The issue is causing the source to stop working, not damaging it physically.

As to him saying they work anyway, here is what HDMI org itself says on the topic: http://www.hdmi.org/installers/longcablelengths.aspx

"Active Cables & Boosters
Using active electronics to boost and clean up the signal can effectively double the range of a standard twisted-copper HDMI cable. Cable runs of up to 30 meters are the norm for this type of solution, which may be deployed as either a standalone signal management device, i.e., a repeater or booster box, or incorporated into the manufacture of the cable itself. Boxes are available in many configurations, usually incorporating both booster and equalization functions, and may also serve as repeaters or switchers. Active cables, on the other hand, embed the signal-enhancement electronics in the cable itself, with chips embedded in the connector housings. They are unidirectional, using different modules at the transmit and receive ends of the cable. All the technologies in this category require external power.

Beware products that draw power from the +5V power line. Although these may work in certain applications, different components draw varying amount of power from that line to communicate with each other. A cable that draws power from the HDMI cable may fail when components and the active components in the cable or external booster are all drawing from the same source."

There are many other references. Here is from CEDIA that advises the custom install industry that has to deal with HDMI day in and day out: http://www.cedia.co.uk/cda_/images/Resources/HDMI_Installation_BP_ENG.pdf

"ACTIVE CABLES AND HOW TO PULL HDMI CABLES
Using cables with active electronics can boost and
clean up the signal and almost double the range of a
copper twisted cable. Cable runs of up to 30 meters
are typical for this type of solution, which can either
be implemented through an HDCP-compliant repeater
or incorporated into the manufacture of the cable
itself. Active cables embed signal-enhancement
electronics in the cable itself. High speed channels in
HDMI are unidirectional so care should be taken during
installation to ensure proper directionality because a
lossy signal will need boosting at the same end of the
cable. Most of the solutions in this category require
external power. In fact, HDMI Licensing recommends
active (powered) extenders/boosters and recommends
that they be powered by a separate power supply [2].
"

Redmere technology is cool if you need a much thinner cable and can test it before deploying it. If it works, then great. Just know that you are cutting corners on the spec if it doesn't and you run into strange problems.
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
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Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
Thanks Amir for sharing.

I'm just reporting different views and opinions; trying to find out what's best.
I've read a lot of comments from AVS; it is important to know that the people giving them are for the 4K front projectors with HDMI cable runs over 30 feet and up to 50...and even above...100 feet in some cases. Here we check from roughly 35 to 50 feet.

I've read more positive comments from people using active High Speed HDMI cables for UHD using RedMere technology, in the 30-50 feet range, than people without having success. My only main goal here is to give Llyod, and all other members, including myself; the best set of knowledge by choosing some of the adequate HDMI cables for our own use with 4K front projectors and our other audio/video equipment...in the longer runs category. For shorter runs up to 20 feet or so it is easier to find out the ones with proper passing grade.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Thanks, Gents. You are both trying to give me the best advice, which is very much appreciated. As both of you have unanimously suggested, this is something for the engineer to take responsibility for, not you both. That said, I like being a reasonably educated consumer. This is helping, and I will surely have a discussion with him about the choice of cable...but as Amir has also once told me...if i second guess the engineer and insist on my own cable against his advice, then i have to take responsibility if it does not work. Whereas if we run with his choice, then he takes responsibility.

In sum, i will speak with him regarding the 'education' you have both given me, to ensure he focuses on the best choice of cable. Will keep you posted!
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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So just as an update...i have reset our Oppo player to the highest resolution (1080p 24bit), and everything works perfectly with not 1 drop of video (which used to happen at 1080i at least 2x-3x per movie).

Out of curiosity, i checked the cable the engineer left (black cable not white) to tide us over which we are welcome to keep if we wish:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-skqQHI8oXas/p_705HDMI35E/Planet-Waves-E-Series-10-7-meters-35-feet.html

It looks like an active cable that costs around $200 bucks Planet Waves E-Series Active HDMI 10.7m cable (35 feet).

Its an expensive cable, brought the by engineer...and most importantly, so far, it works perfectly. I am wondering whether we should just paint it white and have it wrapped around the mouldings? It looks very much like a co-axial cable...we have high gloss white for our mouldings...will this work on the cable?

More to the point here on this forum, any thoughts on this cable?
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
13,207
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PLANET WAVES - HDMI CABLE -35 FT. / 10.67 M*
Planet Waves HDMI "E" series cables are always the Perfect Length for the best signal transfer possible. We proudly make one grade of HDMI w/Ethernet, always the highest quality connection. The cable is an HDMI High Speed w/Ethernet and Audio Return capable of transmitting signals to support HDMI 1.4a spec, 3D, 4k. The HDMI Ethernet Channel allows internet enabled HDMI devices to share an internet connection via the HDMI link with no need for a separate Ethernet cable. The Audio Return feature allows enabled devices to send audio back to a device such as a stereo receiver via the HDMI cable. Includes full 1080p support up to 45ft. All Planet Waves HDMI products are precision made under strict manufacturing tolerances. 100% shielded with all gold plated connectors and over molded strain relief. Being extremely flexible and the "Perfect Length" they allow for the ultimate in signal transfer while providing for extremely clean looking installations. Coupled with the included HDMILok's they can be "locked" onto most source equipment and to Planet Waves exclusive Port Saver HDMI adaptors. All cables are CM & CL2 (UL) rated for in-wall installations

Features
Supports HDMI High Speed 1.4a spec, 3D, 4k, Ethernet w/Audio Return
Advanced conductor construction maximizes 8 channels of digital audio signals and pure digital video signal
Available in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40 and 45 foot lengths (1080p/1.4a/3D/4k cert. to 45ft.)
HDMI "E" series cables include our exclusive HDMILok for secure connections to source equipment and Planet Waves Port Savers.
Special note regarding Planet Waves Long Length HDMI "E" Series 30ft., 35ft., 40ft., 45ft.:


Planet Waves Long Length HDMI "E" series cables exceed all specifications for HDMI High Speed 1.4a spec. to deliver full HD 1080P picture and sound for cable lengths in excess of 25 feet. In addition these cables incorporate both Ethernet and Audio Return capabilities into the design ensuring they're ready for advances in HDMI technology.

Advanced cable design and construction is required to meet the demand of HDMI high speed data transfer over distance. In order to ensure correct signal transfer Planet Waves Long Length HDMIE cables incorporate an integrated circuit on the display end of the HDMI cable. This circuit enables our HDMI E Series cables to pass these data streams over distance while maintaining the HDMI signal integrity, clocking, and full data signal transfer. In addition Planet Waves HDMI E cables are CM & CL2 (UL) rated for in-wall use.
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,308
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435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
After I've read this: "So just as an update...i have reset our Oppo player to the highest resolution (1080p 24bit), and everything works perfectly with not 1 drop of video (which used to happen at 1080i at least 2x-3x per movie)." ...I said to myself, right on, Lloyd is good to go now.

And yes I agree; $200 is expensive for a 35-foot HDMI cable.

And as to paint it white; I just don't know...I never painted a cable before. :b
______

Just for information (& future reference):

https://www.clrtec.com/marketing/planetwaves/specsheets/PW HDMIE_LoRes.pdf
https://futurereadysolutions.com/product-category/interconnect-cables/hdmi-cables-copper/
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
13,207
1,591
698
After I've read this: "So just as an update...i have reset our Oppo player to the highest resolution (1080p 24bit), and everything works perfectly with not 1 drop of video (which used to happen at 1080i at least 2x-3x per movie)." ...I said to myself, right on, Lloyd is good to go now.

And yes I agree; $200 is expensive for a 35-foot HDMI cable.

And as to paint it white; I just don't know...I never painted a cable before. :b
______

Just for information (& future reference):

https://www.clrtec.com/marketing/planetwaves/specsheets/PW HDMIE_LoRes.pdf
https://futurereadysolutions.com/product-category/interconnect-cables/hdmi-cables-copper/

thank you! Will look into painting it...seems like a cable worth keeping.
 

es347

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Midwest fly over state..
..hey there...OP here. This thread has veered off course slightly which is no biggie but just to tie a bow around it...I decided to stay with my Epson 6010 rather than updating, saving the $4K? I had a spare bulb on hand so replaced it and had my old buddy Ken Whitcomb come over and do his calibration thing. The result was an incredible improvement in picture quality. I'm good to go for the foreseeable future...now back to the "original" programming :)
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
13,207
1,591
698
..hey there...OP here. This thread has veered off course slightly which is no biggie but just to tie a bow around it...I decided to stay with my Epson 6010 rather than updating, saving the $4K? I had a spare bulb on hand so replaced it and had my old buddy Ken Whitcomb come over and do his calibration thing. The result was an incredible improvement in picture quality. I'm good to go for the foreseeable future...now back to the "original" programming :)

good to know! will keep that in mind...how long do bulbs generally last?
 

es347

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
1,578
27
430
Midwest fly over state..
good to know! will keep that in mind...how long do bulbs generally last?

..I'm almost embarrassed to say...Ken reprimanded me for letting it go so long but I had well over 4000 hrs on the original bulb but believe it or not the picture was still relatively bright. Of course it's a lot like the frog in boiling water...you get so used to it you lose touch with how poor the picture actually is. With Ken's calibration eqpt and his magic touch the results are striking!
 

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