GT Audio Works Planar/Ribbon Speakers and Sound Insight Open Baffle Sub Woofers

Bodhi

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2014
1,065
346
155
#81
There were a number of issues with that Magico room not sounding as good as it should, incl (but not limited to) source, isolation, ac power and room acoustics (or lack thereof). I mean what kind of doofus demo's speakers that good while they're still on their temporary coasters?! So imho that is an unfair comparison. This room from Axpona 2016 featuring the $130k CAT Statement mono blocks, R2R tape, Kronos and Magico isolation products would be a fairer comparison...

 
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GT Audio Works

Industry Expert
Feb 12, 2015
132
74
60
59
Stockholm NJ
www.gtaudioworks.com
#82
There were a number of issues with that Magico room not sounding as good as it should, incl (but not limited to) source, isolation, ac power and room acoustics (or lack thereof). I mean what kind of doofus demo's speakers that good while they're still on their temporary coasters?! So imho that is an unfair comparison. This room from Axpona 2016 featuring the $130k CAT Statement mono blocks, R2R tape, Kronos and Magico isolation products would be a fairer comparison...
Sorry Bodhi, it was not my intention to dis Magico owners or show Magicos in a poor light. My only intention is to demonstrate how my speakers perform in the context of comparing against ANY SPEAKER PLAYING THE SAME SONG.
The way I look at it, if a manufacturer comes to a show and exhibits their product they should be ready to take the heat...At shows, we are all in the same boat...you come up to bat and take your best swing, no excuses or post game griping about how things turned out. (at least not in public)
I have had my own share of screw ups, but as Tom Hanks said "There is no crying in baseball !"

Regarding my videos...I never make any comments, or post my opinions, its up to the viewer to make their own conclusions.
People may balk and say you cant listen to youtube videos to get an accurate comparison. To this I respond...while these videos cant approach the real event, they can give you a general idea of the character of each system you are hearing.

Of course I do this because I believe my speakers will perform as well or better than just about any speaker you can name, in many cases at significantly less cost.That being said, let me stress the words "I believe" Doesn't mean anyone else will have the same belief. Individuals have their own set of parameters and preferences when purchasing a loudspeaker. I can only offer anyone interested in hearing them a demo at my dealer in the NYC area. As an incentive to demo we will reimburse airfare upon purchase. I also offer show discounts as an incentive for anyone interested in hearing them . The only show you will currently hear them at is Capital Audiofest in the Washington DC area.

Unfortunately I dont have the resources of the big boys like Gryphon , Von Schweikert, Wilson etc, to do show after show to spread the word.
The logistics of transporting such a large system is daunting and expensive. but if you are near the east coast of the US. CAF 2019 will be a great place to hear them in person and to compare to other high end offerings.
 
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Bodhi

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2014
1,065
346
155
#83
Sorry Bodhi, it was not my intention to dis Magico owners or show Magicos in a poor light. My only intention is to demonstrate how my speakers perform in the context of comparing against ANY SPEAKER PLAYING THE SAME SONG.
My post was just for the benefit of any newbie audiophile who stumbled on this thread who might have been offered a good deal on a pair of Magico S5 Mk2's, but got turned off by that video of a setup I can only describe as amateur. A seasoned audiophile would spot that those speakers were sitting on coasters, and the CAT amps were sitting directly on the carpet; things a newbie might miss. So my post was to say to that audiophile "Here is a good setup of the S5 Mk2's which shows what they can really do". Dat's it.
 
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GT Audio Works

Industry Expert
Feb 12, 2015
132
74
60
59
Stockholm NJ
www.gtaudioworks.com
#84
Bodhi...I have these 3 tracks in my collection, not master tapes like Myles... just lowly cd's.
I am pretty sure Myles has his Magicos set up properly, so if you think this will be a more appropriate comparison, I will video my speakers playing the same tracks.
It will not be for another week or better, but I promise I will get to it.
Greg


 

GT Audio Works

Industry Expert
Feb 12, 2015
132
74
60
59
Stockholm NJ
www.gtaudioworks.com
#85
Just as a teaser...here is a prototype driver I built years ago..you are hearing a single full range planar driver hooked directly to the amp no crossover no bass or treble augmentation.
Obviously the sound is rough in my video, and the level on my video is too high...its not a completed speaker, just a single driver...better things to come.
The system uses a 90's JVC cd player worth very little, a primaluna preamp and paradox pulse amps and wire..total system cost about $6k.
There is little deep bass since a small area driver such as this cant go lower than maybe 100hz, but you get the idea...please compare.
 
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Leif S

Industry Expert
Feb 14, 2015
709
98
65
California
www.vonschweikert.com
#86
Sorry Bodhi, it was not my intention to dis Magico owners or show Magicos in a poor light. My only intention is to demonstrate how my speakers perform in the context of comparing against ANY SPEAKER PLAYING THE SAME SONG.
The way I look at it, if a manufacturer comes to a show and exhibits their product they should be ready to take the heat...At shows, we are all in the same boat...you come up to bat and take your best swing, no excuses or post game griping about how things turned out. (at least not in public)
I have had my own share of screw ups, but as Tom Hanks said "There is no crying in baseball !"

Regarding my videos...I never make any comments, or post my opinions, its up to the viewer to make their own conclusions.
People may balk and say you cant listen to youtube videos to get an accurate comparison. To this I respond...while these videos cant approach the real event, they can give you a general idea of the character of each system you are hearing.

Of course I do this because I believe my speakers will perform as well or better than just about any speaker you can name, in many cases at significantly less cost.That being said, let me stress the words "I believe" Doesn't mean anyone else will have the same belief. Individuals have their own set of parameters and preferences when purchasing a loudspeaker. I can only offer anyone interested in hearing them a demo at my dealer in the NYC area. As an incentive to demo we will reimburse airfare upon purchase. I also offer show discounts as an incentive for anyone interested in hearing them . The only show you will currently hear them at is Capital Audiofest in the Washington DC area.

Unfortunately I dont have the resources of the big boys like Gryphon , Von Schweikert, Wilson etc, to do show after show to spread the word.
The logistics of transporting such a large system is daunting and expensive. but if you are near the east coast of the US. CAF 2019 will be a great place to hear them in person and to compare to other high end offerings.
LOL....let's just say we spend a lot which means we have to sell a lot
 

GT Audio Works

Industry Expert
Feb 12, 2015
132
74
60
59
Stockholm NJ
www.gtaudioworks.com
#87
LOL....let's just say we spend a lot which means we have to sell a lot
For Sure....I see what you guys go through on setup day,..quite a traveling caravan.
If your come to CAF 2019 stop by, i'm across the atrium from you..we'll have a drink.
Greg
 
Likes: Leif S

Bodhi

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2014
1,065
346
155
#88
Bodhi...I have these 3 tracks in my collection, not master tapes like Myles... just lowly cd's.
I am pretty sure Myles has his Magicos set up properly, so if you think this will be a more appropriate comparison, I will video my speakers playing the same tracks.
It will not be for another week or better, but I promise I will get to it.
Greg


Myles has a good setup, but they're S5 Mk1's. There's a huge difference between the Mk1 and Mk2, so they're not really comparable. That said, It is pointless in any case posting 'comparison' videos of systems with different upstream equipment in different rooms. That isn't a comparison at all, and worse, could be misleading for anyone seriously considering your speakers, or the speakers you're using for comparison as I've now pointed out on two occasions.
 
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GT Audio Works

Industry Expert
Feb 12, 2015
132
74
60
59
Stockholm NJ
www.gtaudioworks.com
#89
Lets just say we disagree on that point.
If you are so adamant about a truly scientific comparison, why is it then so many audiophiles buy a speaker from an audition at a dealer or friends system..or even worse unheard and unseen on a recommendation of a reviewer or friend ? Are not these systems different than the one you own ? Are the rooms you hear the systems in not different than your own ?
How did you come to own your S5 Mk2's ? Did you hear them in your exact system before buying them ?
As flawed as you think my videos are, at least you can sync up an exact portion of a track and play in repeatedly in an AB comparison to establish a base line to get an idea as to the differences.
Try going from dealer to dealer on different days and remember what the other system sounded like.

My intention is to hand out samples ..so to speak...aural soundbites to snack on.
I really dont think anyone with an objective mind after watching one of these videos will be swayed either way...unless they are biased towards one brand to start.
My reason for these videos is to bypass all the he said she said about the performance of a piece of audio gear so prevalent in our hobby.
I would rather put forth some small shred of reality without any advertising hype or bias than to sit here and talk up my speakers , which in my opinion means absolutely zip.
If after watching the videos they wish to contact me...great...if not well then at least we have something different on the forum to yack about for awhile.

Bodhi...I cant help but to feel I have struck a nerve , since the only time you have responded negatively to these videos is when the comparative video was a speaker you own.
If you were closer I would gladly invite you over to my dealers hot seat. but since thats highly improbable, maybe someone can take me up on an offer.
I would like to invite any open minded, objective thinking Magico speaker owner who owns a model of greater retail cost than the value of my GTA3.1R speakers and SI OB sub combo @$50k USD.
I dont care if you own Q7's in a million dollar system..I am happy invite you over to experience my system and relate your findings back to the readers of WBF.
Please understand this is not an affront on Magico...Or any other high end speaker. I simply wish to inform the audiophile gentry there are alternatives out there that do not follow the same business plan (aka...huge advert budgets) as other high end companies.

Sincere Regards,
Greg
GTAW
 

Tinear1

New Member
Aug 25, 2019
4
14
3
54
#93
Greg... PM me about the GTA3.1 CAF demo discount. I'll be there.
 

GT Audio Works

Industry Expert
Feb 12, 2015
132
74
60
59
Stockholm NJ
www.gtaudioworks.com
#95
Verity Audio Sarastro IIS $48k
VS

GT Audio Works GTA3.1r with optional subs...as shown $48k
This demo pair with subs will be for sale at Capital AudioFest ...$25k


We may break up the set, but prefer to sell the subs as well.
 

GT Audio Works

Industry Expert
Feb 12, 2015
132
74
60
59
Stockholm NJ
www.gtaudioworks.com
#99
For all you planar purists out there , I would like to talk a bit about why I recommend subs with my speakers.
Planar advocates believe you cant get articulate bass out of a box..right ??
Mating a box sub (where the rear wave is absorbed by the box) with a fast planar usually doesn't work well due to their different radiation patterns and SPL output rolloff for a given distance.
So lovers of dipole speakers usually forgo subs to enjoy the purity of bass a planar produces.
Better a little of a good thing than a lot of a bad philosophy.
If you feel this way, I think you are missing out on a lot of what's in the music.

Trouble is with palnar bass is you cant get around natural laws so depending to what resonance you tune your diaphragm the bass response will be dictated by this resonance. Tune low and you will get low with a bump at resonance. Tune high and that bump will be higher in frequency and the panel will roll off below resonance.
Problem is you cant have your cake and eat it too, so you make a choice between where you want that panels output to be strong. I believe tuning low puts that resonance in a spot where its very audible and excited my room interactions, which creates situations where the mid and upper bass suffers. Low tuning also takes that resonance away from where you want it..in the mid to upper bass regions where the music lies. Look at big 15-18" pro drivers bass drivers..they dont tune for low, they tune for impact, that punch that whacks you in the chest. Most music lies above 50hz. So why tune lower in a planar type of driver that is not comfortable in reproducing such a range ? Planar excursion is fixed by the magnets distance from the diaphragm, too close and as the spls rise the diaphragm will hit the magnet stator. So to get decent output you need to have a large gap and a larger area panel which will limit the HF ability of such a panel.
Why not design a speaker system around what drivers are best at a particular job ? Design a planar that is happy at producing 50hz all day at very high spls and leave the heavy lifting sub sonics to a bass system that will not only meld with the planar in terms of radiation pattern and spl rolloff at distance but one that by nature can move tons of air with very little distortion.
That bass system is dipole bass which I incorporate in my speakers..they produce output front to rear just like the main speakers.
If you have not heard what a system like this can do in terms of speed, articulation and resolution , not to mention LF response and high spl output. All I can say is it has to be experienced to be understood.
This sub system in the wrong hands can harm you...15hz at 110 db is dangerous, but if you dont go crazy with the volume knob, you will hear nuance in LF instruments like pipe organ and other LF instruments like few have experienced.
The bass system is modular and even the 2 per side stack will go to down 15hz . In most room this is more than enough, but 6 per side takes it to a level few other subs can muster.
Lets say you dont like subs..Ok the speakers on their own will go down to 50hz with dynamics that need to be heard to be appreciated.
I often turn the subs off during a demo and people are surprised how the balance changes very little, unless the music calls from very deep bass.

Greg
 
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