Given this room, what is best for windows reflection and correct positioning of speakers

the sound of Tao

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Duke LeJeune

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Thank you for supplying so much information, Gankhuyag.

And I can't help but notice that your English is better than mine.

I am aware of at least one US-based acoustician who does all of his work remotely, so it matters not whether you live on the other side of town or the other side of the planet. He knows the acoustic properties of all sorts of ordinary materials so he can tell you how to disguise "room treatments" if needed. His name is Jeff Hedback, he is a multi-award-winning recording studio designer, he has done work for some of the members here, and he is still affordable:


Compared to him I am a total amateur, but here is my first thought, looking at the rendering in your initial post:

Would it be feasible to set up your system along a diagonal? In other words, using that first image as the starting point, move one of the speakers to that widest panelled section along the glass wall, and leave the other one on its original wall, but repositioned to be symmetrical with the one we moved. So now that corner is in between (and behind) the two speakers, and the best listening area would be along the centerline between the two speakers, so along the diagonal. This would probably call for re-arranging the rest of the room as well, but if the top priority is sound quality, it might be worth it.

Here is why this geometry should work well: The undesirable first reflections off of the two "side" walls, the glass wall and the one where the speakers are now, would miss the main listening area. No significant early reflections means that you would probably have much less need for room acoustic treatment. Also, from the main listening area, the view out the windows is a little over half of your normal field of view.

Floyd Toole used this set-up geometry in one of his listening rooms when he lived in Canada. If you happen to have the third edition of his book, "Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms", see the description on page 188 and photo on page 189. His room was much smaller, but both of the walls which formed his corner included glass which was nearly floor-to-ceiling.

Anyway that is just my thought, and it is worth nothing compared to the advice of a professional acoustician.

Very best of luck to you.

Duke
 
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Gankhuyag

Member
Oct 20, 2020
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Mongolia
Thank you for supplying so much information, Gankhuyag.

And I can't help but notice that your English is better than mine.

I am aware of at least one US-based acoustician who does all of his work remotely, so it matters not whether you live on the other side of town or the other side of the planet. He knows the acoustic properties of all sorts of ordinary materials so he can tell you how to disguise "room treatments" if needed. His name is Jeff Hedback, he is a multi-award-winning recording studio designer, he has done work for some of the members here, and he is still affordable:


Compared to him I am a total amateur, but here is my first thought, looking at the rendering in your initial post:

Would it be feasible to set up your system along a diagonal? In other words, using that first image as the starting point, move one of the speakers to that widest panelled section along the glass wall, and leave the other one on its original wall, but repositioned to be symmetrical with the one we moved. So now that corner is in between (and behind) the two speakers, and the best listening area would be along the centerline between the two speakers, so along the diagonal. This would probably call for re-arranging the rest of the room as well, but if the top priority is sound quality, it might be worth it.

Here is why this geometry should work well: The undesirable first reflections off of the two "side" walls, the glass wall and the one where the speakers are now, would miss the main listening area. No significant early reflections means that you would probably have much less need for room acoustic treatment. Also, from the main listening area, the view out the windows is a little over half of your normal field of view.

Floyd Toole used this set-up geometry in one of his listening rooms when he lived in Canada. If you happen to have the third edition of his book, "Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms", see the description on page 188 and photo on page 189. His room was much smaller, but both of the walls which formed his corner included glass which was nearly floor-to-ceiling.

Anyway that is just my thought, and it is worth nothing compared to the advice of a professional acoustician.

Very best of luck to you.

Duke
Duke,

Thanks a lot for a detailed explanation and introduction to Jeff. Once I move into my new house, I will experiment every possible options to find the "Sweet" spot, where minimum distortions/reflections present. Will look at Flyod's book for further study.

Appreciated a lot.

Gangar
 
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Gankhuyag

Member
Oct 20, 2020
28
12
10
45
Mongolia
Thank you for supplying so much information, Gankhuyag.

And I can't help but notice that your English is better than mine.

I am aware of at least one US-based acoustician who does all of his work remotely, so it matters not whether you live on the other side of town or the other side of the planet. He knows the acoustic properties of all sorts of ordinary materials so he can tell you how to disguise "room treatments" if needed. His name is Jeff Hedback, he is a multi-award-winning recording studio designer, he has done work for some of the members here, and he is still affordable:


Compared to him I am a total amateur, but here is my first thought, looking at the rendering in your initial post:

Would it be feasible to set up your system along a diagonal? In other words, using that first image as the starting point, move one of the speakers to that widest panelled section along the glass wall, and leave the other one on its original wall, but repositioned to be symmetrical with the one we moved. So now that corner is in between (and behind) the two speakers, and the best listening area would be along the centerline between the two speakers, so along the diagonal. This would probably call for re-arranging the rest of the room as well, but if the top priority is sound quality, it might be worth it.

Here is why this geometry should work well: The undesirable first reflections off of the two "side" walls, the glass wall and the one where the speakers are now, would miss the main listening area. No significant early reflections means that you would probably have much less need for room acoustic treatment. Also, from the main listening area, the view out the windows is a little over half of your normal field of view.

Floyd Toole used this set-up geometry in one of his listening rooms when he lived in Canada. If you happen to have the third edition of his book, "Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms", see the description on page 188 and photo on page 189. His room was much smaller, but both of the walls which formed his corner included glass which was nearly floor-to-ceiling.

Anyway that is just my thought, and it is worth nothing compared to the advice of a professional acoustician.

Very best of luck to you.

Duke
I got your point.
 

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ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
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A lot of advice and fixes but what is the exact problem you want to solve :)? Glass might not be your main problem. Given the size of this space you need to load up on a ton of acoustic product to make a dent. It will be very expensive not to mention ugly and even then no guarantee what you’ll end up with.

Measurement software may help someone with experience with an overall impression but they’re not easy to use properly and mostly an exercise in futility for a novice.

Speaker positioning is certainly important but you didn’t mention if you’re setting up for intimate listening or whole room experience?

IMO looking at this space and those speakers your biggest issue will be anemic or even lack of bass. There must be at least one hallway off of this space leading to adjacent rooms, that can have a drastic effect on the bass too and needs to be dealt with. I highly recommend that you wait until you’re in the space with all your furnishings and see what type of problem you need to solve before making any decisions.

david
 

Gankhuyag

Member
Oct 20, 2020
28
12
10
45
Mongolia
A lot of advice and fixes but what is the exact problem you want to solve :)? Glass might not be your main problem. Given the size of this space you need to load up on a ton of acoustic product to make a dent. It will be very expensive not to mention ugly and even then no guarantee what you’ll end up with.

Measurement software may help someone with experience with an overall impression but they’re not easy to use properly and mostly an exercise in futility for a novice.

Speaker positioning is certainly important but you didn’t mention if you’re setting up for intimate listening or whole room experience?

IMO looking at this space and those speakers your biggest issue will be anemic or even lack of bass. There must be at least one hallway off of this space leading to adjacent rooms, that can have a drastic effect on the bass too and needs to be dealt with. I highly recommend that you wait until you’re in the space with all your furnishings and see what type of problem you need to solve before making any decisions.

david
A lot of advice and fixes but what is the exact problem you want to solve :)? Glass might not be your main problem. Given the size of this space you need to load up on a ton of acoustic product to make a dent. It will be very expensive not to mention ugly and even then no guarantee what you’ll end up with.

Measurement software may help someone with experience with an overall impression but they’re not easy to use properly and mostly an exercise in futility for a novice.

Speaker positioning is certainly important but you didn’t mention if you’re setting up for intimate listening or whole room experience?

IMO looking at this space and those speakers your biggest issue will be anemic or even lack of bass. There must be at least one hallway off of this space leading to adjacent rooms, that can have a drastic effect on the bass too and needs to be dealt with. I highly recommend that you wait until you’re in the space with all your furnishings and see what type of problem you need to solve before making any decisions.

david
sorry to ask this question prematurely in a case where the room is not ready yet. Anyhow, I am truly grateful to get responses and advices so far. I am now more relaxed to know that my room is not too bad for a sound music listening given that I position it correctly. I will experiment first and will share my experiences. Thank you everyone here.
 
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ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
5,974
3,420
870
Utah
sorry to ask this question prematurely in a case where the room is not ready yet. Anyhow, I am truly grateful to get responses and advices so far. I am now more relaxed to know that my room is not too bad for a sound music listening given that I position it correctly. I will experiment first and will share my experiences. Thank you everyone here.
I never meant you shouldn’t ask questions merely pointing out the obvious before taking action. It’s a beautiful space.

david
 
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Willgolf

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Jul 22, 2019
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I am curious, did you ever move in and did you solve your issues? What did you end up doing? Are you happy with your final product? In your mind what still needs to be done?
 
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ecwl

Member
Mar 20, 2021
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I can't believe how I spent so long mesmerized by the beautiful rendering of the future space. So jealous and happy for you.
With such a large space, I agree with others that it is unlikely room nodes/bass resonances or first reflection points are going to play a major factor. Once you moved in, if the space is truly too resonant, you can always add some artistic broadband absorbers.

As others have said:
1) It all comes down to separation of speakers and toe in to get the optimal sound balance in terms of bass vs midrange vs treble and imaging
2) If you're going to have a coffee table between the listening position and the speakers, cover up the coffee table with a cloth or just move the coffee table during listening sessions to reduce the sound reflection from the coffee table
3) Moving the speakers further from the wall would definitely increase soundstage depth. However, the downside would be less low bass. My guess is that your best bet is to have a calibrated microphone available, e.g. miniDSP UMIK-1 so that once you've moved in and settled on where to sit, just use the microphone to measure how even and low the bass is and based on your measurement, you can try moving the speakers closer to the wall and further away to get the bass response that you prefer. But I suspect whatever you do, it'll be a trade-off between how deep the low bass is vs how deep your soundstage is.
 
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