Genesis VI speakers - can this pair be saved (hoping "yes!", certainly.

Feb 14, 2015
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#1
Just acquired (some people don't like really heavy things, I guess). Condition is marvelous. But they have an issue, and I have a couple myself, and among them all it's just not working yet.

Issue 1: one of the NL4 connectors (speaker left) is broken; some of the plastic shroud has cracked and fallen away. The connector does lock into place, however. Big deal?

Issue 2: no signal from the Genesis external amplifier. The amp lamp lights; it gets warm as it stays on. But running the main preamp outputs of a Mac MX113 to the external amplifier results in absolutely nothing from the speakers. Not a hum, not a buzz, nothing. Thus, I'm running the speakers simply off the binding posts of a Mac2205 amplifier to the binding posts of the Genesis. (and I did figure out to not use the biwire business on the Genesis...).

I don't have another amplifier with speakon connections just laying about, and I've not found anyone local (Oklahoma) who is game at even testing the amplifier, let alone doing repairs. I really hate not taking advantage of the VI's bass capability. Better to solicit amp diagnosis/repairs nationally, or just buy a pro amp with similar power ratings and speakon connections and hope that's the issue?

Issue 3: No owner's manual. Is there information in there I ought to be aware of? I can't find one of those things anywhere. I pulled the 500 manual from the Genesis site and it was helpful on things like placement, but not so much on connections and amplifier.

Any and all suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks!
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
#3
Just acquired (some people don't like really heavy things, I guess). Condition is marvelous. But they have an issue, and I have a couple myself, and among them all it's just not working yet.

Issue 1: one of the NL4 connectors (speaker left) is broken; some of the plastic shroud has cracked and fallen away. The connector does lock into place, however. Big deal?
As long as the connector does lock - the plastic shroud being cracked should be not much of a problem as long as the crack does not extend to the screws holding the connectors to the cabinet. There is quite a bit of air pressure behind the connector and if the screw is not secure, the cabinet could leak. The Neutrik NL4 connectors are cheap and easily available: http://www.parts-express.com/neutrik-nl4mp-speakon-connector-4-pole-panel-mount--092-052

However, the contacts do corrode after 20 years, and it is just prudent to have them replaced if you are working on the speakers.

Issue 2: no signal from the Genesis external amplifier. The amp lamp lights; it gets warm as it stays on. But running the main preamp outputs of a Mac MX113 to the external amplifier results in absolutely nothing from the speakers. Not a hum, not a buzz, nothing. Thus, I'm running the speakers simply off the binding posts of a Mac2205 amplifier to the binding posts of the Genesis. (and I did figure out to not use the biwire business on the Genesis...).

I don't have another amplifier with speakon connections just laying about, and I've not found anyone local (Oklahoma) who is game at even testing the amplifier, let alone doing repairs. I really hate not taking advantage of the VI's bass capability. Better to solicit amp diagnosis/repairs nationally, or just buy a pro amp with similar power ratings and speakon connections and hope that's the issue?
This is a very much bigger problem. The woofers are servo-controlled and you can't just buy a pro amp with similar power ratings and replace it. You would get very boomy, one-note bass as the woofer does not work in the cabinet volume without the servo-control system working properly.

Unfortunately, we do not know of anyone who would be able to work on the servo-bass amplifier of the Genesis VI. When the old Genesis technologies went bankrupt in 2001, the bank foreclosing on the company lost the entire warehouse storage unit holding the computers, product books and office files of the company. Hence, we do not have schematics and BOM of the G-VI amplifier. I haven't ever seen an example of this amp, so don't know the first thing about it. To compound the matter, the design is over 20 years old, and even component parts are obsolete and unavailable. For example, we once tried to fix the amplifier to the Genesis V but couldn't find a good replacement for the power transistors which are no longer manufactured.


Issue 3: No owner's manual. Is there information in there I ought to be aware of? I can't find one of those things anywhere. I pulled the 500 manual from the Genesis site and it was helpful on things like placement, but not so much on connections and amplifier.

Any and all suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks!
I haven't ever seen an Owner's Manual to the G-VI either. The closest we have that has the same connections and set-up might be the Genesis II.5. Here's the set-up guide: http://genesisloudspeakers.com/archeology/geniip5/iip5_setupguide.pdf

Here's a brochure if you're interested: http://genesisloudspeakers.com/archeology/genv_vi/vandvi_brochure.pdf

Let me know if you have any more questions.
 
Feb 14, 2015
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#4
Rapid and thorough analysis, Gary - thank you. And thanks again. In light of all this, I'm looking to add a sub that is particularly well suited to music and higher ranges to get into the frequencies that would be covered by the now-silent woofers. The mids and highs on the VI's are so incredible I cannot give them up but my kids are so intent on going to college 10 years from now that I cannot in good conscience go with a more current (and fully functional!) model.
 

DonH50

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert
Jun 23, 2010
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#5
Gary has a line of servo subs that should fit the bill! I use Rythmik, a less expensive servo sub, and am a firm believer is servo technology for subs.
 

DonH50

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert
Jun 23, 2010
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#7
Wasn't going to suggest that since this is about Genesis, but yes they do! And Brian, the man behind Rythmik, is another gem of a guy (like Gary).
 
Feb 14, 2015
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#8
Splendid news. Examined the interior of the servo amp; all appears intact; both fuses are good. Build quality is awesome. So started over from cold. Problem turned out to be bad y-splitters. Replaced those with new and now get excellent sound from one speaker. Nice! The other speaker, still no bass. But that one suffers from a fractured Neutrik connector on the speaker cable, very likely the source of the silent woofers. Can someone recommend a shop that would be able to swap out the broken connector for a new one? Given what these cables cost (25 meters I think this one is), I'd really like to invest in having a pro do the work instead of myself.
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
#9
Colin, if you managed to get inside the servo amp, you can change out the Neutrik connector. IIRC they are just screwed on to the cable and not soldered. You would be able to buy them from the Parts Express link I provided earlier.

Also, the old servo-bass cables had a design flaw that made the feedback circuit oscillate if you shorten the cables. So, do not cut the cables even if they are much, much too long.
 

DonH50

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert
Jun 23, 2010
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Monument, CO
#11
The speakON connectors have versions with screw terminals; XLR's are soldered (at least the ones I have used -- they have a crimped XLR, not sure about a screw terminal version). For XLR's they have a version for high EMI/RFI situations.
 
Feb 14, 2015
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#14
SpeakOns replaced at the cable ends. Both speakers are fully alive! The external powered subwoofer I've had for years already is listed on craigslist -- good riddance. Many, many thanks to Gary and all for their consults. Colin
 

Genesis56

New Member
Apr 8, 2015
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#16
Hi. I own a mint pair of Genesis V speakers. I have have had no issues or problems with them. But I was thinking about other Genesis V or Vl owners who have developed issues with their servo amplifiers. Assuming some are unable to afford going down Gary Koh's Genesis Technologies upgrade (the preferred option) how about these guys? It may be more expensive than what Gary or Rythmic Audio can offer - but maybe still something to consider :)

Edit: Sorry, I forgot to post the link forServoBass: http://servobass.com/OEM.html
 
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garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
#17
Your speakers would be hitting 20 years old - and a little maintenance may be helpful to keep the going. Especially if you are unable to afford going for a new Genesis servo amp or a Rythmik Audio plate amplifier + woofers you want to maintain the speakers BEFORE they catastrophically fail.

Woofers move much more than midranges and tweeters. Like the shocks and springs in your car, the spider and surrounds wear out. Companies like Orange County Speaker Repair can "re-cone" your woofers. Replacing the spider and surround with new ones before they fail will save you very expensive repairs. IIRC they charge less than $100 per woofer.

The servo-amp has electrolytic capacitors in the power supply. These can leak, dry out and wear out. The old Genesis sometimes used 1,000hr load life caps. We use 3- 5,000hr caps, but after 10 years it still makes sense to replace them before they fail. Any competent technician will be able to replace the caps with the same value just higher quality.

Inside the crossover there are a few non-polar electrolytic caps - replace them with equivalents as these also wear out. The film caps will last several lifetimes.

There are various places to get replacement parts - a bit of research will save you a lot of money. Unfortunately, I run a business and not a charity and we have to make a profit to stay in business. As a business, we also have to keep inventory which increases cost of doing business.
 

Genesis56

New Member
Apr 8, 2015
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#18
Hey, Gary,

Thanks for your prompt response.

I forgot to post that link in my previous post: http://servobass.com/OEM.html

For many of us, the only way to get into true reference quality speakers for a reasonable price is to buy early model Genesis speakers. I know some have age related issues, but with a little TLC and just a few dollars, it's possible to restore them to pristine condition. The result is something incredible to hear. I can only just begin to imagine the outstanding sound quality offered by the latest models using modern technology.

I have had my speakers serviced by a technician familiar with the early models. I've replaced the dome mid-range drivers and as you suggested previously, the servo bass cables have had the connectors replaced (I'm glad I had them checked as the technician showed me the speakon connectors were cracked). My amplifier checks out as well - no signs of capacitor leaking.

I guess for owners of early Genesis Vs, it's good to know that we can upgrade our speakers with new Genesis components (for a price of course :) ). When the time comes, I would be happy to retain my cabinets and bring my lovely Genesis V's to something close to the latest version that you currently make. I am thinking that I would save a considerable amount of $$$ over a new model plus retain a h-fi classic. Or bite the bullet and buy a new pair!

I have owned a bunch of different and expensive speakers in the past. None come close to my Genesis Vs.
 

Genesis56

New Member
Apr 8, 2015
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#19
Hi Gary,

For some reason my post that you responded to got deleted (?) Weird.

Anyhow thanks for the tips. I've had my speakers and amp serviced by a competent tech who's familiar with the Genesis V. SpeakON connectors replaced and mid-range dome drivers replaced. Result = awesome sound!

The other servo amplifier possibility I was trying to post previously for those that can't afford a Genesis Advanced Technologies replacement is from ServoBass. I don't know how suitable their products might be, but the might be a good alternative to Rythmic: http://servobass.com/OEM.html
 
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garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
#20
Hiya, I am glad that you are enjoying your G-V and you already had it service and maintained. It should still sound outstanding for years to come. If you keep watch, every once in a while a pair of later model speakers come available on-line. But they are usually snapped up quickly unless they are in poor condition.

Thanks for the link to the ServoBass Corp - another resource for the DIY-type who can't afford our solutions! I will keep them in mind.