Furutech GTX-D Rhodium NCF Outlet

Dec 24, 2014
30
0
6
#1
Hi

I have been using a strip with Cary tube preamp and digital sources on a Furutech GTX-D Gold outlet and Pass power amp to a Maestro on the wall for a while now.

The combination seems decent but lately with some bass heavy recordings I have found the bass thick and boomy on extreme low bass notes. The mids and highs are fine and I tend to be sensitive to bright treble.

I took the preamp out and put it to the Maestro on the wall and this ameliorated the bass somewhat. Everything became fuller sounding but as a result, there was less low bass reverb (sounds contradictory?)

I suspect it is the GTX-D Gold. I am guessing if I replaced that with a GTX-D Rhodium NCF, it will tighten up the bass and hopefully eliminate the excessive low bass reverb. But in doing so, will the highs become too forward, hard or bright as Rhodium tends to be vs Gold?

Any experienced feedback from users who have tried the Maestro, GTX-D Gold and GTX-D Rhodium NCF is much appreciated.

Thanks
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
7,774
926
113
#2
Hi

I have been using a strip with Cary tube preamp and digital sources on a Furutech GTX-D Gold outlet and Pass power amp to a Maestro on the wall for a while now.

The combination seems decent but lately with some bass heavy recordings I have found the bass thick and boomy on extreme low bass notes. The mids and highs are fine and I tend to be sensitive to bright treble.

I took the preamp out and put it to the Maestro on the wall and this ameliorated the bass somewhat. Everything became fuller sounding but as a result, there was less low bass reverb (sounds contradictory?)

I suspect it is the GTX-D Gold. I am guessing if I replaced that with a GTX-D Rhodium NCF, it will tighten up the bass and hopefully eliminate the excessive low bass reverb. But in doing so, will the highs become too forward, hard or bright as Rhodium tends to be vs Gold?

Any experienced feedback from users who have tried the Maestro, GTX-D Gold and GTX-D Rhodium NCF is much appreciated.

Thanks
personally I view the GTX-D R NCF as 'right' and truthful. but other feel it reveals too much.

this is a question of personal taste and overall system balance. the GTX-D 'R' NCF will open things up and bring more vibrancy. but how that plays out is a matter of context. if your system tends toward 'edge' then this could tip it over more that way. if it's a bit soft or thick it might bring it more into neutrality. reading your comments it should help with the direction you are desiring.
 

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
2,596
493
83
#3
Agreed w/Mike. NCF is truthful and accurate, low noise/distortion.

How other options play out depends a lot on system, but I do feel that, in general, gold is a bit looser on bass.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
6,675
1,067
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Beverly Hills, CA
#4
Do the Furutech NCF outlets "sound" different than the Furutech rhodium-only outlets?
 

ayreman

Active Member
Jan 2, 2017
124
36
28
Ukraine
#5
I have ten GTX-D R NCF in my system and I agree with Mike completely. Gold gives fuzzy sound. Bass is woolly and inarticulate. With rhodium - wow - everything is crystal clear. Bass guitar plays solo on every track non-stop - it is THAT clear. I love rhodium. There is only one drawback - it takes 500 hrs to break-in those receptacles:mad:. And these 500 hrs seem to drag on forever...
 

bazelio

Active Member
Sep 27, 2016
887
238
43
California
#6
Do the Furutech NCF outlets "sound" different than the Furutech rhodium-only outlets?

Yes.

Gold is as described above. Rhodium-only is clear and unbloated, but with a slight polish or smoothness. NCF is crisp and clear.

I've had all three in wall directly behind my equipment simultaneously. The golds are gone now, and I've left a mixture of Rhodium-only and NCF in the wall.
 

bazelio

Active Member
Sep 27, 2016
887
238
43
California
#7
personally I view the GTX-D R NCF as 'right' and truthful. but other feel it reveals too much.

this is a question of personal taste and overall system balance. the GTX-D 'R' NCF will open things up and bring more vibrancy. but how that plays out is a matter of context. if your system tends toward 'edge' then this could tip it over more that way. if it's a bit soft or thick it might bring it more into neutrality. reading your comments it should help with the direction you are desiring.
+1

Cary isn't likely to ever get hard or bright, but should benefit from the improved edge definition and clarity provided by NCF.
 
Dec 24, 2014
30
0
6
#8
Mike and DaveC, thanks for getting back. I was concerned that the top end may tip too much to the bright side.

bazelio, I was under the impression that the NCF Rhodium's were less analytical sounding and fuller and more natural. At least that is what I was led to believe from comments on various fora.

Furutech tells me they will be releasing a Gold NCF later this year. So am wondering whether to wait for that or to get a Rhodium NCF.
 

bazelio

Active Member
Sep 27, 2016
887
238
43
California
#9
Mike and DaveC, thanks for getting back. I was concerned that the top end may tip too much to the bright side.

bazelio, I was under the impression that the NCF Rhodium's were less analytical sounding and fuller and more natural. At least that is what I was led to believe from comments on various fora.

Furutech tells me they will be releasing a Gold NCF later this year. So am wondering whether to wait for that or to get a Rhodium NCF.
I would not use Gold outlets with that tube gear. It's just too warm a combination. This is just my opinion.
 

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
2,596
493
83
#10
I agree that the ncf removes a slight glaze or polished sound the regular rhodium has.

I can't see a gold ncf being as good but who knows!
 

CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
1,350
455
83
Hong Kong
#11
My friends chose to install some Furutech NCF and some SR Black wallsockets for mix & match with diff components.

We will try the new SR Blue wallsocket soon. It must be better than the SR Black in some aspects.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
6,675
1,067
113
Beverly Hills, CA
#12
Yes.

Gold is as described above. Rhodium-only is clear and unbloated, but with a slight polish or smoothness. NCF is crisp and clear.

I've had all three in wall directly behind my equipment simultaneously. The golds are gone now, and I've left a mixture of Rhodium-only and NCF in the wall.
Thank you!
 
Dec 24, 2014
30
0
6
#13
Has anyone tried the Cardas 4181?

It's spoken of very little. Just asking because the power cords I use are mostly Cardas Clear Beyond with a Golden Reference
 
Dec 24, 2014
30
0
6
#14
OK so I got the GTX D Rhodium NCF’s.

I have about 5 hours on them now. I have the Cary tube preamp and digital sources on a strip to the outlet. I have the Pass Labs power amp on the Maestro.

There is greater clarity, air and instrumental separation. Image outlines are also more distinct, but with less bloom and fullness - I guess this would constitute a minor negative. The bass has tightened up and there is more micro detail all round.

More on the downside, the treble has become "silvery" with a bit of hardness and brightness. There is more extension but the sound doesn’t seem like it has opened up yet and still sounds etched and shut in.I do hope the treble hardness and brightness goes away. How long does this take?

The GTX D Gold had boomy low bass but I liked the top end on that.

Overall, if I had to choose one among the 3 outlets, I prefer the Maestro so far.
 

bazelio

Active Member
Sep 27, 2016
887
238
43
California
#15
OK so I got the GTX D Rhodium NCF’s.

I have about 5 hours on them now. I have the Cary tube preamp and digital sources on a strip to the outlet. I have the Pass Labs power amp on the Maestro.

There is greater clarity, air and instrumental separation. Image outlines are also more distinct, but with less bloom and fullness - I guess this would constitute a minor negative. The bass has tightened up and there is more micro detail all round.

More on the downside, the treble has become "silvery" with a bit of hardness and brightness. There is more extension but the sound doesn’t seem like it has opened up yet and still sounds etched and shut in.I do hope the treble hardness and brightness goes away. How long does this take?

The GTX D Gold had boomy low bass but I liked the top end on that.

Overall, if I had to choose one among the 3 outlets, I prefer the Maestro so far.

You say there is greater clarity, air, and separation, then say it sounds shut in? I don't understand. But in any event, the GTX-D NCF is open, airy, and detailed. The bloom you heard with the gold was its coloration. My opinion is the NCF is far and away more accurate and desirable. It's not a bright sound in an absolute sense. It's that the gold was a bit dark, and now you're getting used to hearing more treble. Over time you may come to realize this is a good thing. Or you could retune the system with power cords, interconnects, and even tubes. Kubala Sosna, Cardas, Mullard, Brimar all come to mind. My suggestion: keep the NCF, give it a chance, and after a couple weeks retune elsewhere if you still think it's needed.
 
Dec 24, 2014
30
0
6
#16
You say there is greater clarity, air, and separation, then say it sounds shut in? I don't understand.
Yes, I realise that sounded contradictory when I wrote it but it did have greater clarity, air and separation on some material and yet did sound like it was etched and shut in with other material.

OK I am already using Cardas cabling mostly all throughout, a Mullard rectifier and Grey Glass RCA 6SN7 GT's - all in pretty warm stuff.
 

bazelio

Active Member
Sep 27, 2016
887
238
43
California
#17
Yes, I realise that sounded contradictory when I wrote it but it did have greater clarity, air and separation on some material and yet did sound like it was etched and shut in with other material.

OK I am already using Cardas cabling mostly all throughout, a Mullard rectifier and Grey Glass RCA 6SN7 GT's - all in pretty warm stuff.
This is a case where we need to break in the listener, then. :D Give it a chance. Live with it for a while. You might like it. Treble clarity and detail is a good thing!
 

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
2,596
493
83
#18
OK so I got the GTX D Rhodium NCF’s.

I have about 5 hours on them now. I have the Cary tube preamp and digital sources on a strip to the outlet. I have the Pass Labs power amp on the Maestro.

There is greater clarity, air and instrumental separation. Image outlines are also more distinct, but with less bloom and fullness - I guess this would constitute a minor negative. The bass has tightened up and there is more micro detail all round.

More on the downside, the treble has become "silvery" with a bit of hardness and brightness. There is more extension but the sound doesn’t seem like it has opened up yet and still sounds etched and shut in.I do hope the treble hardness and brightness goes away. How long does this take?

The GTX D Gold had boomy low bass but I liked the top end on that.

Overall, if I had to choose one among the 3 outlets, I prefer the Maestro so far.
You need to give them about 4 weeks if they are used for a few hours every day... burn-in on these is fairly dramatic and it takes a LONG time, which is why I burn them in for my customers. You may notice them changing back and forth from closed-in to sounding open and normal many times before they stabilize. The shifts in sound can be quick and are very noticeable. I have definitely heard that closed-in sound from the GTX receptacles, it will go away. :)
 
Likes: ayreman

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
6,675
1,067
113
Beverly Hills, CA
#19
You need to give them about 4 weeks if they are used for a few hours every day... burn-in on these is fairly dramatic and it takes a LONG time, which is why I burn them in for my customers. You may notice them changing back and forth from closed-in to sounding open and normal many times before they stabilize. The shifts in sound can be quick and are very noticeable. I have definitely heard that closed-in sound from the GTX receptacles, it will go away. :)
Hello Dave,

Do you have a theory to explain this phenomenon of the sound changing back-and-forth quickly?
 

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
2,596
493
83
#20
Hello Dave,

Do you have a theory to explain this phenomenon of the sound changing back-and-forth quickly?
None at all. The way many things burn-in... which tends to follow a more exponential curve... meaning you get a large improvement quickly then it tapers off but still improves more gradually for a longer time... has some explanations that are known. This back and forth thing the GTX rhodium receptacles do is bizarre and confusing to me to be honest.

The switch from sounding closed-in to normal may only take seconds but if it happens when you're paying attention it's very obvious. I've brought a modded SurgeX to a potential customer's system for a demo and during the course of the afternoon it changed a couple times, both times the owner of the system heard it and commented on it. So, IMO it's important to burn-in parts for customers as much as possible. It really helps everyone, the customer gets to hear what the part sounds like without a month of burn-in and I don't have to answer as many questions about how the part's sound is changing! :)
 

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