Finally I have Saved- Kind Advice on Paradigm

Apr 17, 2017
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#1
:confused:

Hi guys, I worked really hard to save some money for a HT upgrade. I'm looking for Paradigm speakers, first here is my setup 7.2.4.

1- Front : Definitive Technology BP2006TL ( Powered)
2- Center: Definitive Technology CLR 2500 (Powered)
3- Surround: Definitive Technology BPVX (Powered)
4- Back Surround: Definitive Technology: BPX
5- Atmos: 4 Klipsch RP-140SA
6- Subwoofer: Definitive Technology SuperCube 1
7- AV Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR3030
8- Blu Ray: Denon DBT-3313UD
9- TV: Panasonic Plasma 65"
11- Room: My room size is 2150 Cubic Feet. Room floor Tiles, Walls are Concrete and Ceiling is Gypsum board. My listening distance is 11 Feet from front and center speakers.

I feel my front are no match for the rest of my system and I got a great deal on the Paradigm Prestige 95F as fronts and Prestige 55C as Center. I found them for a great price of $4,525.

My Question are they too large for my room, should I buy the 85F & 45C instead.

Kindly advice and as I have saved for the past two years to be able to upgrade.

Many thanks for your help in advance.
 
Last edited:

audioguy

WBF Founding Member
Apr 21, 2010
2,723
5
38
Near Atlanta, GA but not too near!
#2
Congrats on saving up. And good that you will be paying cash.

I could not help but notice that your room is all hard surfaces (concrete, tile, gypsum board). You may want to consider using some of the money you have allocated for speakers to some passive room treatment. Even if your Onkyo has some room correction ability, it can't fix that much reflection very effectively.
 

rblnr

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 3, 2010
1,878
1
38
NYC/NJ
#3
I'm an Anthem/Paradigm dealer so take this as you will.

You'll be fine with the 95Fs given your room size, and they (with the 45C) will be a major upgrade over what you have. At some point I think you'll want to upgrade that receiver to something with beefier amps. I completely agree with Chuck that some strategic room treatment will make an important difference in your room and should be a priority.
 
Apr 17, 2017
8
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#4
Congrats on saving up. And good that you will be paying cash.

I could not help but notice that your room is all hard surfaces (concrete, tile, gypsum board). You may want to consider using some of the money you have allocated for speakers to some passive room treatment. Even if your Onkyo has some room correction ability, it can't fix that much reflection very effectively.
Thank you for the advice, Unfortunately I can't do any changes on the Apartments as it is on lease. Once I get my own house, then I will be able to build the HT room from scratch. I Thought I could improve my Fronts and Center as they have to match in terms of tonality as my DT BP2006TL Fronts are no match to the rest of my setup. If you've noticed from my setup, The Definitive Technolgy Fronts, Center and Surrounds are all powered and along with the SuperCube I are a bit too much bass to my liking.
 
Apr 17, 2017
8
0
0
#5
I'm an Anthem/Paradigm dealer so take this as you will.

You'll be fine with the 95Fs given your room size, and they (with the 45C) will be a major upgrade over what you have. At some point I think you'll want to upgrade that receiver to something with beefier amps. I completely agree with Chuck that some strategic room treatment will make an important difference in your room and should be a priority.
Great to know you're a Anthem/Paradigm dealer, I've always had this fascination with to Anthem Receivers since I first heard them. Outstanding. A bit pricey though but you pay for quality.
I though the Onkyo 3030 was a top notch AV Receiver, 5 Star reviews everywhere. Would the Denon AVR-X7200 or 6300 offer beefier amps you were referring to.
Also, you mentioned the 45C, why not the 55C with the 95F. The offer on the table for 95F/Pair + 55C is $4,525. What do you think?
 

audioguy

WBF Founding Member
Apr 21, 2010
2,723
5
38
Near Atlanta, GA but not too near!
#6
I'm not suggesting anything permanent. Rugs on the floor; removable panels you hang on the walls. And, you will be able to use the panels in your home. I can't stress enough how critical room treatment is to getting good sound. Even if you end up purchasing less expensive speakers so that you have funds to pay for the treatments, you will be way ahead sonically. WAY AHEAD !!!!!

Check out GIK Acoustics. They are reasonably priced and very effective.
 
Apr 17, 2017
8
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#7
I'm not suggesting anything permanent. Rugs on the floor; removable panels you hang on the walls. And, you will be able to use the panels in your home. I can't stress enough how critical room treatment is to getting good sound. Even if you end up purchasing less expensive speakers so that you have funds to pay for the treatments, you will be way ahead sonically. WAY AHEAD !!!!!

Check out GIK Acoustics. They are reasonably priced and very effective.
I take your point and I'll see what can be done and good sound should be the priority, so if I manage to do these changes, any recommendation in terms of speakers and sub based on the options on offer. I'm attaching pictures from my room setup and any additional comments are most appreciated. IMG_0015.JPG IMG_0016.JPG IMG_0019.JPG IMG_0020.JPG
 

Attachments

rblnr

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 3, 2010
1,878
1
38
NYC/NJ
#9
Great to know you're a Anthem/Paradigm dealer, I've always had this fascination with to Anthem Receivers since I first heard them. Outstanding. A bit pricey though but you pay for quality.
I though the Onkyo 3030 was a top notch AV Receiver, 5 Star reviews everywhere. Would the Denon AVR-X7200 or 6300 offer beefier amps you were referring to.
Also, you mentioned the 45C, why not the 55C with the 95F. The offer on the table for 95F/Pair + 55C is $4,525. What do you think?
I haven't directly compared the Onkyo w/the Denons -- my guess is that they'd be more alike than different driving the Paradigms. I happen to think the Anthem receivers outperform either of those brands which is why I carry them -- but that's a dealer talking.

That's a good price, even a surprising one for the 95Fs/55C if they're new.
 

audioguy

WBF Founding Member
Apr 21, 2010
2,723
5
38
Near Atlanta, GA but not too near!
#10
One very large difference between Onkyo and Denon. Denon has the full boat Audyssey X32 room correction system and Onkyo/Integra dropped Audyssey and has a home grown room correction system THAT DOES NOT CORRECT THE LCR'S OR SUBS !!!!! (Yes, you read that right). Forget Onkyo.
 
Apr 17, 2017
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#11
Great, now for the next step of the upgrade.

One more Q, Should I replace my Onkyo TX-NR3030 with Anthem MRX 1120 OR Denon AVR-X6300 to power the Paradigm 95F & 55C speakers. You seem to prefer the Denon over Onkyo, but what about the Anthem?
 
#12
- The Onkyo TX-NR3030 is a very nice AV receiver; with AccuEQ.
- The Anthem MRX1120 has ARC EQ system; with the help of your laptop to customize your preferences.
- The Denon AVR-X6300 has Audyssey Platinum flavor (MultEQ XT32), plus this now → http://www.avsforum.com/denon-marantz-launch-audyssey-multeq-editor-app/ ($20 app)

And the Yamaha RX-A3060, which now EQ (YPAO/parametric EQ) the sub down to 15Hz (before it was only going down to 31.5Hz). https://ca.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/
- Yamaha RX-A3060 → https://ca.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/rx-a3060_u/index.html

The Yamaha RX-A3060 also supports HLG & Dolby Vision: https://www.whathifi.com/news/yamaha-av-receivers-now-support-hlg-dolby-vision-tidal-and-deezer

♦ If your 4K TV is Dolby Vision supported, and you have a Dolby Vision 4K BR player (Oppo 203 and 205, and LG 970), and you are using only one HDMI cable; you want a receiver that supports Dolby Vision and HLG.
Do some research if the other brands and models you just mentioned support Dolby Vision through a firmware upgrade. It's the future. :b

* If you have a sub or two (better two), to redirect all the low frequencies below 80Hz in addition to the LFE channel, any of those flagship AV receivers above will drive all your Paradigm speakers with ease.
 
Last edited:
Apr 17, 2017
8
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#13
I haven't directly compared the Onkyo w/the Denons -- my guess is that they'd be more alike than different driving the Paradigms. I happen to think the Anthem receivers outperform either of those brands which is why I carry them -- but that's a dealer talking.

That's a good price, even a surprising one for the 95Fs/55C if they're new.
Yes they are brand new with even the Midnight Cherry finish.
 
Apr 17, 2017
8
0
0
#14
- The Onkyo TX-NR3030 is a very nice AV receiver; with AccuEQ.
- The Anthem MRX1120 has ARC EQ system; with the help of your laptop to customize your preferences.
- The Denon AVR-X6300 has Audyssey Platinum flavor (MultEQ XT32), plus this now → http://www.avsforum.com/denon-marantz-launch-audyssey-multeq-editor-app/ ($20 app)

And the Yamaha RX-A3060, which now EQ (YPAO/parametric EQ) the sub down to 15Hz (before it was only going down to 31.5Hz). https://ca.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/
- Yamaha RX-A3060 → https://ca.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/rx-a3060_u/index.html

The Yamaha RX-A3060 also supports HLG & Dolby Vision: https://www.whathifi.com/news/yamaha-av-receivers-now-support-hlg-dolby-vision-tidal-and-deezer

♦ If your 4K TV is Dolby Vision supported, and you have a Dolby Vision 4K BR player (Oppo 203 and 205, and LG 970), and you are using only one HDMI cable; you want a receiver that supports Dolby Vision and HLG.
Do some research if the other brands and models you just mentioned support Dolby Vision through a firmware upgrade. It's the future. :b

* If you have a sub or two (better two), to redirect all the low frequencies below 80Hz in addition to the LFE channel, any of those flagship AV receivers above will drive all your Paradigm speakers with ease.
I didn't jump into 4K TV yet, a bit early as limited stuff on 4K up until now. Maybe in the near future.I really like my Onkyo and have read very positive reviews on it, yet there are still people who dropped it just because of the AccuEQ issue.
I'm not sure how it would do with the Paradigm speakers, but it works well with the DT speakers. In all cases the room needs to have its acoustics improved.
 
#15
That's why I started my post saying that you already have a very nice AV receiver, the Onkyo TX-NR3030

I used to keep track of Audyssey MultEQ XT32 (Denon/Marantz) versus AccuEQ (Onkyo/Integra) and the other EQ systems from Arcam (Dirac Live), Anthem (ARC), Yamaha (YPAO), Pioneer (MCACC), ...their DACs, their DSP chips, their build quality, features, etc. I still check but less.
______

Your Paradigm speakers look real nice: https://www.paradigm.com/products-current/type=tower/model=prestige-95f/page=overview
- https://www.paradigm.com/products-current/type=center/model=prestige-55c/page=overview

• Specs (95F): https://www.paradigm.com/products-current/type=tower/model=prestige-95f/page=specs
• Specs (55C): https://www.paradigm.com/products-current/type=center/model=prestige-55c/page=specs

Have you ever giving any thoughts on separates? Like from Yamaha, or Anthem, or Integra, or Marantz.
Your speakers deserve top amplification IMO, and separates with XLR connections is one way to look @ it, or a separate stereo amp just to power your two front flankers. ...From the front L & R preouts of your Onkyo.
You are using the bass management (two subs are better than just one), in addition to the relative easy load (from the specs) of your Paradigm speakers (with the real measurements in the below post), a flagship receiver like the one you have is fine. And if the volume level you listen @ is not 10dB over reference level (115dB with the LFE channel). ...The size of your room, the respect to your ears and siblings, ...your lifestyle...all look good to me. Enjoy your three new speakers.
 
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Apr 17, 2017
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#17
That's why I started my post saying that you already have a very nice AV receiver, the Onkyo TX-NR3030

I used to keep track of Audyssey MultEQ XT32 (Denon/Marantz) versus AccuEQ (Onkyo/Integra) and the other EQ systems from Arcam (Dirac Live), Anthem (ARC), Yamaha (YPAO), Pioneer (MCACC), ...their DACs, their DSP chips, their build quality, features, etc. I still check but less.
______

Your Paradigm speakers look real nice: https://www.paradigm.com/products-current/type=tower/model=prestige-95f/page=overview
- https://www.paradigm.com/products-current/type=center/model=prestige-55c/page=overview

• Specs (95F): https://www.paradigm.com/products-current/type=tower/model=prestige-95f/page=specs
• Specs (55C): https://www.paradigm.com/products-current/type=center/model=prestige-55c/page=specs

Have you ever giving any thoughts on separates? Like from Yamaha, or Anthem, or Integra, or Marantz.
Your speakers deserve top amplification IMO, and separates with XLR connections is one way to look @ it, or a separate stereo amp just to power your two front flankers. ...From the front L & R preouts of your Onkyo.
You are using the bass management (two subs are better than just one), in addition to the relative easy load (from the specs) of your Paradigm speakers (with the real measurements in the below post), a flagship receiver like the one you have is fine. And if the volume level you listen @ is not 10dB over reference level (115dB with the LFE channel). ...The size of your room, the respect to your ears and siblings, ...your lifestyle...all look good to me. Enjoy your three new speakers.
I think it is too much bass that I feel is ruining my enjoyment, it is that booming humming sound from too many powered speakers that is bothering me, remember the fronts, center and BPVX/P are all powered speakers + SuperCube 1.

In my latest AccuEQ Room Calibration, I opted to choose one sub instead of two subs although the two fronts speakers are connected with a Y and input in Sub 2 in the receiver. The following are the reading I got:

Speaker Impedance 6 ohms
Front Speaker Type: Normal
Height 1 & 2 : Dolby enabled back & front
Speaker Configuration:

Subwoofer 1 Ch
Front 150Hz
Center 120Hz
Surround 150Hz
Back 120Hz
Back ch 2ch
Height 150Hz
Height 60Hz
LPF of LFE 80Hz
Subwoofer Phase 0

As for speaker distance

Front Left: 11.1ft
Center 12.0ft
Front Right 1.2ft
Surround Right 8.0ft
Surround left 8.0ft
Back Right 5.0ft
Back Left 5.6ft
Subwoofer 1 15.6ft
Height 1 left 11.8ft
Height 1 Right 12.0ft
Height 2 Right 8.7ft
height 2 Left 8.6ft

Level Calibration

Front Left 0.0dB
Front Right -1.0dB
Center -1.5dB
Surround Right -5.5db
Surround Left -5.0dB
Back Right -2.5dB
Back Left -3.5dB
Subwoofer +7.0dB
Height 1 Left +3.5dB
Height 1 Right +3.0dB
Height 2 Left +3.0dB
Height 2 Right +3.0dB

I had to turn the knob on the back of all front, center and surround from 3 o'clock to 0. It was too much bass.

I really never thought of separates as everyone was referring to my room acoustics needing to be improved, my sub needing to be replaced and my fronts requiring a change. You're the first one who mentioned it. How can this really help.
Remember I haven't bought the 95F & 55C as of yet. I started this thread asking for an advice on these speakers. Some guys on other forums said my Onkyo is more than enough to drive my existing speakers as well as the 95F & 55C and there is no need to change. other as I have mentioned above had other advice regarding the subwoofer, fronts.

Probably it requires someone who has used similar Definitive Technology to understand how good these speakers are. I really wanted to improve my fronts and i didn't read very positive reviews on the new DT floorstanding speakers, therefore I was looking at the Paradigm 95F. But it doesn't makes sense to change the front without the center as they won't match in terms of tonality, this is where the 55C came into the equation.
 

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