Embarking on building a classical LP collection...in 2023!

[spiritofmusic]

Hiya all, hope 2023 is working out.
After buying classical vinyl in fits and starts over 25 years, about 500 LPs in my modest collection, this is the year (world recession notwithstanding) that I want to seriously get my head down to building a proper collection or library.
1...since we moved to Norfolk we've attended a shedload more classical concerts, on average fortnightly, and I've got a real passion developed for the music.
2...my system/gear/tweaks spending and navel gazing is pretty much done, my system is excelling way more than back in my old apartment in London, especially on classical and jazz, even compared to 6 months ago, recent TT/arm/cart/amp mods have really come thru, and my Arya Audio Airblades tweeters purchase alongside my venerable Zu spkrs has opened up sonically just what's needed for classical to flourish here.
--
So, my mental energies moving from gear to music, funds that would have gone on boxes, cables and footers can now go on music, and I've just acquired a 1983 copy of The Penguin Guide To Recorded Classical Music.
I'd just like some tips, alerts to pitfalls, and just all round advice, on entering what's quite a daunting field.
All and any advice welcome from this relative newbie to classical, and classical LP collecting.

 

[rando]

I personally would devote about 1/3 of my research to a less structured pursuit. One is bound to encounter a lot of unknowns. Gaining some insight towards how to assess your potential for interest, an instinct if you will, can become a valued means of discarding large tracts of information. That very directly means avoiding web searches or any other outside determinant. Let LP find you.

Countering that, make quite intense contact with the physical element of construction and state of reproduction. Whatever means you choose to perform this should bear out in listening sessions the manner in which determination of a flawed element in one singular pressing on hand can exist within another to no or positive effect. I doubt you will struggle to find an example that initially appears to be impeccable and sounds awful.

 

[LL21]

Go with an updated Penguin Guide, Spirit. It was super helpful for me with a 2010 Guide starting out 12-13 years ago. For at least 2 if not 3 reasons:

- brand new performances since 1983 (Hilary Hahn, Joshua Bell, Helene Grimaud, Angela Hewitt, the list goes on...)
- remasterings (I think they are often noted as remaster available)
- hidden away older performances (many) that are discovered

 

[astrotoy]

Congratulations on your new adventure into recorded classical music. I think an important decision is whether you want to focus on collecting classical LPs or more broadly look at recorded classical music of all media. In amassing my classical music collection, I focused on LPs. There are still many used copies of LPs, very often in excellent playing condition for very reasonable prices, particularly in the UK. There are also many superb reissues done in audiophile pressings (like Acoustic Sounds reissues of RCA Living Stereo albums, and Testament and Speakers Corners reissues of EMI and Decca recordings). I just checked the stock list of a reliable classical used record dealer in central England whom I have purchased from for many years and visited a few years ago. She currently has a stock list of 1600 albums. Sorted by price, the median price is about 10 GBP going down to 2.50 GBP. So about 800 albums at 10 GBP or less. (spiralclassics.co.uk). For a walk in store, Classical Music Exchange is at 38 Notting Hill Gate (the website says they are currently closed for refurbishment) I have bought many records there over the years mostly for under 10 GBP.

Larry

 

[oldvinyl]

Hiya all, hope 2023 is working out.
After buying classical vinyl in fits and starts over 25 years, about 500 LPs in my modest collection, this is the year (world recession notwithstanding) that I want to seriously get my head down to building a proper collection or library.
1...since we moved to Norfolk we've attended a shedload more classical concerts, on average fortnightly, and I've got a real passion developed for the music.
2...my system/gear/tweaks spending and navel gazing is pretty much done, my system is excelling way more than back in my old apartment in London, especially on classical and jazz, even compared to 6 months ago, recent TT/arm/cart/amp mods have really come thru, and my Arya Audio Airblades tweeters purchase alongside my venerable Zu spkrs has opened up sonically just what's needed for classical to flourish here.
--
So, my mental energies moving from gear to music, funds that would have gone on boxes, cables and footers can now go on music, and I've just acquired a 1983 copy of The Penguin Guide To Recorded Classical Music.
I'd just like some tips, alerts to pitfalls, and just all round advice, on entering what's quite a daunting field.
All and any advice welcome from this relative newbie to classical, and classical LP collecting.

Get ye to a record show! record show calendar

I found it useful to go to some local shows, get to know some of the dealers and let them know what I was interested in. I have purchased through one dealer for over 25 years now. He lets me know when he gets a collection with LPs that I would be interested in. Sometimes, estate or even yard sales can yield incredible deals, but take a lot of time.

Also, let your friends and family know that you enjoy and collect vinyl. I have had several collections given to me and have had several estates leave me their records.

For collecting, I found some labels that had music and artists that I liked. I could explore lots of music by relying on those labels and getting more familiar with the composers and performers. I bought a lot of records from labels such as Éditions de l'Oiseau-Lyre, Harmonia Mundi, Telefunken (Das Alte Werke), Archiv, EMI Reflexe, Hungaroton. So far, I have amassed a lot of records from those labels that I really enjoy.

Same idea with performers - when I found an artist or group, I would buy records with them performing. This includes Collegeum Aurem, Jordi Savall, Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, Gerard Souzay, Elly Ameling, Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli, Earl Wild, etc. Same idea again for composers - the music of Bach, Bartok, Chopin, Debussy, Widor, Ralph Vaughn Williams, Ravel. Once I heard something I liked, I just looked for more works by that composer.
And of course - YouTube. It is easy to listen to various artists and composers to discover music that appeals to me, then find it on LP.

Enjoy the record hunting!

 

[astrotoy]

Classical music has two major issues. First is the artist and performance on the album. Second is the quality of the sonics of the album. The two may match in an ideal album (which can be old or new). There may be a major or minor mismatch - great performance and not as great sonics, or the reverse. Also for used records, there can be both great performance and great recording, but the condition of the record is not so good.

Also people who are not very knowledgeable about classical music (which itself is a huge topic), often one starts collecting with some list of top pieces with top performances, and slowly learn from there. Typically one starts with top pieces from top composers - Bach, Handel, Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Dvorak, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Stravinsky, Bartok to name a few. There is the genre of Opera and also Ballet which also have top composers, pieces and performers.

Larry

 

[tima]

I've just acquired a 1983 copy of The Penguin Guide To Recorded Classical Music.

I used to think the world of these back in 1983 and later, etc. but after gaining more knowledge and experience now find them a bit sketchy. I would not go on a buying spree based on the Penguin Guides.

I'd just like some tips, alerts to pitfalls, and just all round advice, on entering what's quite a daunting field.

1. The masters are masters for very good reasons. Don't worry about 'why', just take what you may know already about who they are and go with that for now. There is no inherent reason to begin a classical music journey with obscure performers regardless of possible skill. Stick with the big name performers and conductors and (my bias) I'd look back a generation or so to classically trained performers in the 1950-80 period and conductors in the 1940-80 period.

2. Here's a simple way (yes there are others) to think about CM for intial approach:

Classical music is grouped into periods that roughly match to periods of history, but maybe easiest just to think in terms of centuries. Think Medieval to Modern and many divisions in between. Each period generally has a broad style and there are lots of people who prefer a particular period. Instruments evolved over time and that is reflected in periods. Earlier music typically came out of a religious background and became more secular moving toward The Enlightenment (1700s).

There are a bazillion listening choices; here are a few suggestions across different periods that s/b accessible for most listener's ears:

Bach - Brandenburg Concertos
Vivaldi - The Four Seasons
Mozart - String Quartets No.17, 18, 19; Piano Concerto No. 21
Beethoven - 6th Symphony (aka Pastoral); Piano Concerto No.5 (aka Emperor)
Dvorak - 9th Symphony (aka New World Symphony)
Copland - Appalachian Spring

If you find something you really like, try another piece from the same composer or another well known composer from the same period. The journey expands outward from there.

Classical music is grouped into the size and scope of the performance. From solos to small groups (typically called chamber music) to complete orchestras and varying sizes in between. The names of types of composition also indicate this, such as: Sonatas (typically solo or solo with acommpanist) Quartets, Concertos (a featured performer with a backing group), Ensembles, Symphonies (large orchestra) and other variations.

3. Looking at your signature, what I see missing is 'that without which' a classical LP collection is a non-starter, viz. the ability to clean your records. I recall you were an early tester for the Degritter. Do you still have one in proper operating condition?

 

[bonzo75]

Hiya all, hope 2023 is working out.
After buying classical vinyl in fits and starts over 25 years, about 500 LPs in my modest collection, this is the year (world recession notwithstanding) that I want to seriously get my head down to building a proper collection or library.
1...since we moved to Norfolk we've attended a shedload more classical concerts, on average fortnightly, and I've got a real passion developed for the music.
2...my system/gear/tweaks spending and navel gazing is pretty much done, my system is excelling way more than back in my old apartment in London, especially on classical and jazz, even compared to 6 months ago, recent TT/arm/cart/amp mods have really come thru, and my Arya Audio Airblades tweeters purchase alongside my venerable Zu spkrs has opened up sonically just what's needed for classical to flourish here.
--
So, my mental energies moving from gear to music, funds that would have gone on boxes, cables and footers can now go on music, and I've just acquired a 1983 copy of The Penguin Guide To Recorded Classical Music.
I'd just like some tips, alerts to pitfalls, and just all round advice, on entering what's quite a daunting field.
All and any advice welcome from this relative newbie to classical, and classical LP collecting.

will monitor this at end of 2023 to check if you got into LPs or more tweaks.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Marc,

This seems like a very healthy and honorable project! What are your favorite classical pieces thus far? (In my typically binary way there are half a dozen pieces I really love.)

 

[Holmz]

Marc,

This seems like a very healthy and honorable project! What are your favorite classical pieces thus far? (In my typically binary way there are half a dozen pieces I really love.)

Ok….
Please tell, what are they?

<…>.
I'd just like some tips, alerts to pitfalls, and just all round advice, on entering what's quite a daunting field.
All and any advice welcome from this relative newbie to classical, and classical LP collecting.

I am not big into streaming normally. But I finally got a DAC last year.
And I find that the streaming is absolutely great for testing out various styles, track and albums.

I generally like woodwinds and oboes. And Vagner, Vivaldi, and some Mozart.
I try to like Jazz, but streaming before a purchase usually confirms why I have a lot more blues than Jazz.

I try to like classical, but I am not going to pretend that I like it… and I would need look in the stack to find what we have.
But 1/2 the reason to post is to get the alerts as sometimes I do find that I what others like, and it is noce to something other than just blues and 80s new wave.

goof luck!

 

[spiritofmusic]

I personally would devote about 1/3 of my research to a less structured pursuit. One is bound to encounter a lot of unknowns. Gaining some insight towards how to assess your potential for interest, an instinct if you will, can become a valued means of discarding large tracts of information. That very directly means avoiding web searches or any other outside determinant. Let LP find you.

Countering that, make quite intense contact with the physical element of construction and state of reproduction. Whatever means you choose to perform this should bear out in listening sessions the manner in which determination of a flawed element in one singular pressing on hand can exist within another to no or positive effect. I doubt you will struggle to find an example that initially appears to be impeccable and sounds awful.

Rando, maybe you could rephrase your post because I'm having real problems understanding it.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Go with an updated Penguin Guide, Spirit. It was super helpful for me with a 2010 Guide starting out 12-13 years ago. For at least 2 if not 3 reasons:

- brand new performances since 1983 (Hilary Hahn, Joshua Bell, Helene Grimaud, Angela Hewitt, the list goes on...)
- remasterings (I think they are often noted as remaster available)
- hidden away older performances (many) that are discovered

That's fine Lloyd, I decided on 1983 because that was the year of passing the baton to CD.
Ironically or not, I'm not a great fan of classical on CD, but have no issues with a lot of DG digitally mastered LPs from the mid/late 80s that I own. Audiophilia is nothing if not an unpredictable hobby.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Congratulations on your new adventure into recorded classical music. I think an important decision is whether you want to focus on collecting classical LPs or more broadly look at recorded classical music of all media. In amassing my classical music collection, I focused on LPs. There are still many used copies of LPs, very often in excellent playing condition for very reasonable prices, particularly in the UK. There are also many superb reissues done in audiophile pressings (like Acoustic Sounds reissues of RCA Living Stereo albums, and Testament and Speakers Corners reissues of EMI and Decca recordings). I just checked the stock list of a reliable classical used record dealer in central England whom I have purchased from for many years and visited a few years ago. She currently has a stock list of 1600 albums. Sorted by price, the median price is about 10 GBP going down to 2.50 GBP. So about 800 albums at 10 GBP or less. (spiralclassics.co.uk). For a walk in store, Classical Music Exchange is at 38 Notting Hill Gate (the website says they are currently closed for refurbishment) I have bought many records there over the years mostly for under 10 GBP.

Larry

Larry, you're the friendly fellow I met at The General's some years back. I believe I did drool over your list of recently at the time acquired master tapes.
I'll certainly contact Spiral Classics.
Larry, any other specific contacts other than Spiral and Record Exchange.
FWIW, one of the saddest days ever to me was the final day of Harold Moores Classical Records in Central London, all of my 500 albums were sourced from their gloomy, dusty shelves, a fantastic resource and amazing prices for a West End business.
One of my Qs is whether there are indeed any dealers out there (for the black stuff, not the white lol).
Ie physical shops or respected/reliable online sources that can hold your hand, help procure and provide, give advice, and sell at reasonable prices.
I don't particularly want to get into online auction bidding wars with the likes of The General, I know who the loser will be.
FTR, it's just LPs that I'm interested in, maybe CDs of new stuff never released on vinyl/Avant Garde, deffo not tape or streaming.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Get ye to a record show! record show calendar

I found it useful to go to some local shows, get to know some of the dealers and let them know what I was interested in. I have purchased through one dealer for over 25 years now. He lets me know when he gets a collection with LPs that I would be interested in. Sometimes, estate or even yard sales can yield incredible deals, but take a lot of time.

Also, let your friends and family know that you enjoy and collect vinyl. I have had several collections given to me and have had several estates leave me their records.

For collecting, I found some labels that had music and artists that I liked. I could explore lots of music by relying on those labels and getting more familiar with the composers and performers. I bought a lot of records from labels such as Éditions de l'Oiseau-Lyre, Harmonia Mundi, Telefunken (Das Alte Werke), Archiv, EMI Reflexe, Hungaroton. So far, I have amassed a lot of records from those labels that I really enjoy.

Same idea with performers - when I found an artist or group, I would buy records with them performing. This includes Collegeum Aurem, Jordi Savall, Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, Gerard Souzay, Elly Ameling, Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli, Earl Wild, etc. Same idea again for composers - the music of Bach, Bartok, Chopin, Debussy, Widor, Ralph Vaughn Williams, Ravel. Once I heard something I liked, I just looked for more works by that composer.
And of course - YouTube. It is easy to listen to various artists and composers to discover music that appeals to me, then find it on LP.

Enjoy the record hunting!

Old Vinyl, great advice. I've been into a half dozen s/h shops recently, and none have any classical of note to speak of. With Harold Moores closing, my options seem to be eBay or Discogs only.
I'd not considered record fairs.
No chance on inheriting an attic-full from any recently deceased, noone I know is into music other than via Alexa.
So, one really "gets to know" dealers, and relationships fostered to channel buying and collecting?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Classical music has two major issues. First is the artist and performance on the album. Second is the quality of the sonics of the album. The two may match in an ideal album (which can be old or new). There may be a major or minor mismatch - great performance and not as great sonics, or the reverse. Also for used records, there can be both great performance and great recording, but the condition of the record is not so good.

Also people who are not very knowledgeable about classical music (which itself is a huge topic), often one starts collecting with some list of top pieces with top performances, and slowly learn from there. Typically one starts with top pieces from top composers - Bach, Handel, Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Dvorak, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Stravinsky, Bartok to name a few. There is the genre of Opera and also Ballet which also have top composers, pieces and performers.

Larry

Larry, my fledgling collection procured for a couple of decades since 1997 from Harold Moores includes a good hardcore of what I really like, Scheherazade, Rites/Firebird/Petrushka, Planets, some Mahler, Bartok, some Shostakovich, Bach harpsichord and organ, Romeo And Juliet, smattering of Mozart and Beethoven, Copland, Britten, Wagner, Handel, Smetana etc.
I certainly have a predeliction for bombastic, reinforced by recent concerts in Cambridge featuring Shostakovich 11th and Petrushka.
But having heard Vaughn Williams Lark Ascending in concert for first time ever, I need to fill out pure beauty in my life as well, and I have a real love for Plain Chant and a lot of "early music".
The big positive is that my system is now suitably low noise, resolving and transparent to recording, to make listening to such music enlightening and not a chore.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I used to think the world of these back in 1983 and later, etc. but after gaining more knowledge and experience now find them a bit sketchy. I would not go on a buying spree based on the Penguin Guides.



1. The masters are masters for very good reasons. Don't worry about 'why', just take what you may know already about who they are and go with that for now. There is no inherent reason to begin a classical music journey with obscure performers regardless of possible skill. Stick with the big name performers and conductors and (my bias) I'd look back a generation or so to classically trained performers in the 1950-80 period and conductors in the 1940-80 period.

2. Here's a simple way (yes there are others) to think about CM for intial approach:

Classical music is grouped into periods that roughly match to periods of history, but maybe easiest just to think in terms of centuries. Think Medieval to Modern and many divisions in between. Each period generally has a broad style and there are lots of people who prefer a particular period. Instruments evolved over time and that is reflected in periods. Earlier music typically came out of a religious background and became more secular moving toward The Enlightenment (1700s).

There are a bazillion listening choices; here are a few suggestions across different periods that s/b accessible for most listener's ears:

Bach - Brandenburg Concertos
Vivaldi - The Four Seasons
Mozart - String Quartets No.17, 18, 19; Piano Concerto No. 21
Beethoven - 6th Symphony (aka Pastoral); Piano Concerto No.5 (aka Emperor)
Dvorak - 9th Symphony (aka New World Symphony)
Copland - Appalachian Spring

If you find something you really like, try another piece from the same composer or another well known composer from the same period. The journey expands outward from there.

Classical music is grouped into the size and scope of the performance. From solos to small groups (typically called chamber music) to complete orchestras and varying sizes in between. The names of types of composition also indicate this, such as: Sonatas (typically solo or solo with acommpanist) Quartets, Concertos (a featured performer with a backing group), Ensembles, Symphonies (large orchestra) and other variations.

3. Looking at your signature, what I see missing is 'that without which' a classical LP collection is a non-starter, viz. the ability to clean your records. I recall you were an early tester for the Degritter. Do you still have one in proper operating condition?

Tim, excellent stuff. I think I'm ok on choosing pieces, it's more when I'm presented with maybe over a dozen versions of Planets Suite on eBay and Discogs, then decisions to be made.
Interestingly, I have two such versions, and the performances are very different, one more bombastic, one a little more atmospheric. SQ identical.
Here the Penguin Guide is useful, it gives a very basic overview of the "differences" between conductor's, and some thoughts on sonics.
--
Yes, Degritter in use here.

 

[spiritofmusic]

will monitor this at end of 2023 to check if you got into LPs or more tweaks.

Ked, I'd have come to you more directly for advice, but when you stated only the best vinyl (I'm assuming you mean most exhalted conductors/masterings), otherwise it's Lampi all the way, I can't really hack that elitism.
Of my 500 classical LPs, only a fraction would fit your definition, and yet only a fraction (a different fraction, obviously) are meh.
I'm obviously enjoying a lot of LPs you wouldn't.
--
Ftr, you can rest easy, my system is done, my only spends are saving the budget for tubes and stylii, the one expenditure I can't avoid.
But my Airblades purchase in top of recent analog and amps mods have "made" my sound. Recessions aside, my spending is 100% music now.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Marc,

This seems like a very healthy and honorable project! What are your favorite classical pieces thus far? (In my typically binary way there are half a dozen pieces I really love.)

Hi Ron, yes I'm very excited for this phase. I'll freely admit the hobby had become too gear-oriented, to re engage w the reason I got into audio seems appropriate.
I've pretty much been below the waterline since we moved here, but my system results have totally benefitted.
I do kick myself for not shopping at Harold Moores way more than I did.
My desert island list includes Pictures At An Exhibition, Rites/Petrushka/Firebird, Scheherazade, Lark Ascending, pretty much any Shostakovich, and I have a deep addiction to Bach organ works.
Mahler's 9th that we heard live recently left us a bit unmoved, do I lose major street credibility by admitting that?

 

[analyzer]

Honorable project... and in 2023!
I agree completely with Larry/Astrotoy.
My two cents? Take a look to the Arthur Salvatore's list in the web of fine recordings on lp. There are detailed opinions almost shareables. I also own many lp's of his list and I agree with him and recommend many titles.
One example: a good number of Lyrita's recordings of British symphonic and chamber music) are surprisingly enjoyable and well recorded, mostly of them cheap... now I'm playing "The Pure" by Gustav Holst, very very good...

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ok….
Please tell, what are they?





I am not big into streaming normally. But I finally got a DAC last year.
And I find that the streaming is absolutely great for testing out various styles, track and albums.

I generally like woodwinds and oboes. And Vagner, Vivaldi, and some Mozart.
I try to like Jazz, but streaming before a purchase usually confirms why I have a lot more blues than Jazz.

I try to like classical, but I am not going to pretend that I like it… and I would need look in the stack to find what we have.
But 1/2 the reason to post is to get the alerts as sometimes I do find that I what others like, and it is noce to something other than just blues and 80s new wave.

goof luck!

Holmz, my good audiophile friend very much concurs with you. It may be worth getting a very inexpensive streamer/DAC to purely compare recordings. Of course if the cheapest ones are so low quality that they obscure contrasts and differences, then defeats the object lol.