DACs that excel at DSD playback (other than Lampi GG)?

[bonzo75]

Hi Mike, I believe you have done a direct comparison of Aqua and MSB in your system. Would you say, that the Aqua is a more analytical sounding DAC compare to the MSB?
Thanks.

Also check with Shakti, he also did compares of both at his shootout workshops

 

[EuroDriver]

May I ask what tubes he was using?

The tubes were Lampizator 45 GM (mesh plates) made for Lukasz by Emission Labs

This very happy GG owner just emailed the following to me

I listened to my system with the Setchi blocks after receiving them from Emile and they really do some amazing things. The bottom line is that they put the musicians in the room with you.

 

[abeidrov]

What does 'analytical' mean? More resolution of timbre and separation of instruments? If so, then that's more musical too, because that's what you hear live (unamplified music).

That’s just another audiophile term widely used. By ‘analytical’ I meant dry, cold, less timbre.

 

[abeidrov]

Both Merlot and Merging Nadac are excellent suggestions. Unfortunately, they are not available for a listen in a place where I live, and I have not seen any discussions where they are compared to the DACs discussed here.

 

[bonzo75]

The tubes were Lampizator 45 GM (mesh plates) made for Lukasz by Emission Labs

This very happy GG owner just emailed the following to me

Thanks

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Hi Mike, I believe you have done a direct comparison of Aqua and MSB in your system. Would you say, that the Aqua is a more analytical sounding DAC compare to the MSB?
Thanks.

I did own them at the same time, but my direct comparisons were brief, as shortly after I got the MSB Select II I got the SGM optimized for the 'bit perfect' output, and my Formula dac had been using more extensive HQ Player settings. and that Formula dac was the prior version that was PCM only, so my SGM upsampled everything to dxd.

that said; I had a pretty good feeling for the Formula dac. I would say from a presentation standpoint it was along similar lines to the MSB Select II, it certainly had excellent mid range weight and was never lean or edgy sounding. at it's best it had a degree of liquidity and ease that I appreciated and was always listenable. i would say that 'any'......and i do mean 'any' digital i have heard does not get to the 'analog' level of the MSB Select II, so the Formula was not quite as natural sounding as the Select II. but i would place the Formula in the higher reaches of natural sounding dacs i have heard, and I've heard none for the same money as good in that way.

I did prefer my Formula dac with XLR outputs. can't say about the newer or upgraded ones.

 

[abeidrov]

Thanks, Mike.

 

[Lee]

I think I am going to start calling WBF, the Lampi forums.

 

[Lee]

Maybe I can get traction by discussing how I plan to buy Fikus trees to put behind my Maggies.

 

[marty]

Maybe I can get traction by discussing how I plan to buy Fikus trees to put behind my Maggies.

Great idea but you can't take credit for it. Wendell Diller has been doing that at shows for about, oh, 40 years!

 

[Lee]

Great idea but you can't take credit for it. Wendell Diller has been doing that at shows for about, oh, 40 years!

I was riffing on "Fikus". Wendell told me about ficus trees in the 90s.

 

[asiufy]

Since I carry both products (MSB and Aqua Formula), and have heard both lines extensively, I can assure you the Aqua Formula, while not being anywhere near the MSB (SELECT or Reference) in terms of overall performance, IS an amazing DAC, with an intoxicating 3D presentation (sans tubes!). "Analytical" is the last word that'd cross my mind, in relation to the Aqua. Matter of fact, one of the things that struck me hard when I heard the Aqua line for the first time was how warm and organic it was.

 

[Tango]

Since I carry both products (MSB and Aqua Formula), and have heard both lines extensively, I can assure you the Aqua Formula, while not being anywhere near the MSB (SELECT or Reference) in terms of overall performance.

Can you rephrase "while not being anywhere near the MSB" to "while not as outstanding as the MSB," just to comfort an owner of the Aqua Formula like me a little .

Tang

 

[asiufy]

Can you rephrase "while not being anywhere near the MSB" to "while not as outstanding as the MSB," just to comfort an owner of the Aqua Formula like me a little .

Tang

hahaha you got it
I could've written it like "while not as outstanding as the MSB... but then, nothing else is!"
Enjoy that Aqua! It is really one of the good, solid products I've encountered in this crazy hobby! You might want to contact EuroDriver, and arrange for an audition of the SGM server. The Aqua and SGM are made for each other, I tell ya...


cheers,
Alex

 

[bibo01]

Another interesting, soon-to-be-released DAC is Audiobyte Hydra Vox/Zap, a 2-box DAC+PS.
VOX/ZAP is dual chassis pure 1-bit dac , fpga based, no dac chip ; smart and adjustable power supply, ultracapacitor based, minimum DSD512, target DSD1024.
HUB - upsampling network transport, spdif reclocker, usb interface
Aimed price 3500euro ...maybe it's too little for OP's budget

 

[Tango]

hahaha you got it
I could've written it like "while not as outstanding as the MSB... but then, nothing else is!"
Enjoy that Aqua! It is really one of the good, solid products I've encountered in this crazy hobby! You might want to contact EuroDriver, and arrange for an audition of the SGM server. The Aqua and SGM are made for each other, I tell ya...


cheers,
Alex

LoL.

I will just wait and see how Mike gets to the end of the road. Then I could just copy his recepe

Tang

 

[Al M.]

"Analytical" is the last word that'd cross my mind, in relation to the Aqua. Matter of fact, one of the things that struck me hard when I heard the Aqua line for the first time was how warm and organic it was.

How do the terms warm and organic contradict "analytical"? Can a system's sound not be highly resolving, warm and organic at the same time?

 

[Legolas]

How do the terms warm and organic contradict "analytical"? Can a system's sound not be highly resolving, warm and organic at the same time?

For me the term analytical means over exaggerated edges of notes, treble detail in the mid to upper ranges thrust too forward, and a plastic and 'hi-fi' sound to the music. That and classic female singers sounding like pinky and perky (little pigs for the non UK posters).

Basically the standard digital sound then. The DACs that break away from that mould, and hark back to a more analogue (where vinyl seems to do it best) or refer to real music as a reference are the ones I would call analogue sounding. The detractors of those DACs tend to then call them coloured or lacking resolution (in playback terms, not technical). My view is generally they should reference real music, or even a top vinyl rig, as opposed to this or that DAC, because which DAC do we all agree is the truth?

I am exhausted and bored with the wire with gain, resolution thing, numbers and formats, up sampling and filtering. Damb, I just want a DAC to sound like real music, not a glossy and trendy 'hifi' stuck in the room.

Completely ridiculous we have these terms but that is the thrills of the 'advance' in going digital my friends. Now I will go lie down and chill out, sorry if I went off on one.

 

[asiufy]

How do the terms warm and organic contradict "analytical"? Can a system's sound not be highly resolving, warm and organic at the same time?

I've used "analytical" is its widely accepted, borderline pejorative use. I see you have a different understanding of what it means.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/sounds-audio-glossary-glossary

 

[Al M.]

For me the term analytical means over exaggerated edges of notes, treble detail in the mid to upper ranges thrust too forward, and a plastic and 'hi-fi' sound to the music. That and classic female singers sounding like pinky and perky (little pigs for the non UK posters).

Basically the standard digital sound then. The DACs that break away from that mould, and hark back to a more analogue (where vinyl seems to do it best) or refer to real music as a reference are the ones I would call analogue sounding. The detractors of those DACs tend to then call them coloured or lacking resolution (in playback terms, not technical). My view is generally they should reference real music, or even a top vinyl rig, as opposed to this or that DAC, because which DAC do we all agree is the truth?

I am exhausted and bored with the wire with gain, resolution thing, numbers and formats, up sampling and filtering. Damb, I just want a DAC to sound like real music, not a glossy and trendy 'hifi' stuck in the room.

Completely ridiculous we have these terms but that is the thrills of the 'advance' in going digital my friends. Now I will go lie down and chill out, sorry if I went off on one.

I agree with you about what a DAC should do in sounding more like real music. Fortunately my DAC, the Schiit Yggdrasil does, and that on PCM material (it doesn't "do" DSD). There is none of the 'etching' that lesser digital exhibits, while resolution is outstanding (my system doesn't allow to hear all the resolution, even though it goes quite far, but I have heard it elsewhere).

Yes, the term "analytical" is ridiculous and should be avoided. Maybe many audiophiles intuitively agree on a 'meaning' of the term, but that meaning has NOTHING to do with the original meaning of the word.