When you're done with the CS under the DAC, you should try them under the preamp where you currently have Magico Qpods. The comparison would be very interesting as the Qpods are known to be highly capable footers.
Confessions of an Audiophile Junky-I Got Center Stage With Pitch Perfect Sound
- Thread starter Steve Williams
- Start date
Yes I have 8 more footers coming and one set is for my preamp. I agree about the QPods - I find them to be more natural sounding than Stillpoints (which can have a hard edged, analytical presentation).
Will post a comparison after I get the new footers.
Cheers, Joe
It is interesting to me about the Stillpoints observation here...i have seen this more and more recently. And I agree (and I use multiple Ultra 5s)...it was something I also observed (after a few maddening late evening/early mornings of trying to get the sound right) which i managed to solve by using an HRS coupler on top of the Stillpoints Ultra 5 before it meets the underside of the equipment.
Have you tried their new Ultra 6?
Agree about the Stillpoints. To date the only footers worth their price IMHO have been two - Qpods and the HEM-25 by fo.q. Anxious to hear what the CS do.
While I respect this forum and the right of every member to express their opinion, I do not support criticizing other manufacturers. Respectfully, I ask the members to refrain from posting direct comparisons to ANY other product that denigrates the performance of those products or manufacturers.
I said this before and I’ll say it again, I admire Bruce Jacobs and his products and the benefits they have brought and do bring to our great hobby. I will ask Steve to remove any post that crosses a basic line of decency and respect. If you want to criticize or support or discuss another manufacturer’s products, that’s fine. Please do not do it here.
I realize that there are circumstances when comparisons are impossible to avoid. But, please try to manage your comments so that this thread does not spin out of control. This is not what CMS advocates or supports.
I said this before and I’ll say it again, I admire Bruce Jacobs and his products and the benefits they have brought and do bring to our great hobby. I will ask Steve to remove any post that crosses a basic line of decency and respect. If you want to criticize or support or discuss another manufacturer’s products, that’s fine. Please do not do it here.
I realize that there are circumstances when comparisons are impossible to avoid. But, please try to manage your comments so that this thread does not spin out of control. This is not what CMS advocates or supports.
Mods might I suggest that this thread be moved to the CMS forum instead of General Audio Discussions
It is not for me to pass judgement on the forum's Terms of Service. However, I am beginning to see a trend here at WBF. Stillpoints were heavily discussed to the point where it almost seemed like a marketing campaign. Then Stacore and MasterBuilt came into the picture and there were a few interesting threads which did get into the topics of marketing and exposure for products. Those threads seemed to be all about brand exposure. The manufacturers joined the discussions and contributed insight into those products. I found those threads interesting reads and they made me aware of new products in the industry. Now, the Center Stage footers have taken this exposure/marketing to a new level. It is almost as if this site is being used for beta testing marketing ideas. And one of the owners has a business interest in the product.
It is just my observation, and I am not trying to pass judgement or to even indicate one way or the other how I feel about this. I am curious to know, though, if the owners and moderators welcome this new direction for WBF? There seems to be an interesting transition taking place, or is it just my imagination?
Lots of products get introduced here. There are some with what, a hundred or more pages? Some get attention and some don't. Over all I think the mod team has been liberally consistent from when I was a mod until today. I do recommend however that this thread be moved to CMS or a new forum for Pitch Perfect be created and this be moved there since the principals are participating heavily. That has been the normal progression and has numerous precedents.
Peter, to put the Stacore story into perspective, based on Mike and Christian experience of Herzan, I was always planning to go the active route.
Blue58 alerted me to this interesting new product, the Stacore platform, and after negotiating a reasonable trial where my only money out of pocket on return would have been carriage back to Poland, I went ahead.
And was bowled over.
As one of the first, if not THE first, triallists of the product, I really felt compelled to spread the good word.
And that's the long and short of it.
I actually feel honoured to have got the company some visibility in a VERY tough marketplace.
I'm an official beta tester for a very promising new ultrasonic lp cleaner, and if things work out the trial, I'm sure I'll spread the word here too in a little while.
Blue58 alerted me to this interesting new product, the Stacore platform, and after negotiating a reasonable trial where my only money out of pocket on return would have been carriage back to Poland, I went ahead.
And was bowled over.
As one of the first, if not THE first, triallists of the product, I really felt compelled to spread the good word.
And that's the long and short of it.
I actually feel honoured to have got the company some visibility in a VERY tough marketplace.
I'm an official beta tester for a very promising new ultrasonic lp cleaner, and if things work out the trial, I'm sure I'll spread the word here too in a little while.
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I totally agree with you Jack. There is lots of precedent here if you look at the created subforum. So without much ado I am taking Jack's advice and will move it to a dedicated subforum
Not sure if this is addressed to me but it was not my intention to denigrate anyone. I only made a comparison in response to a directed question.
That said, I will respect your wishes and refrain from making any further comparisons to other products.
Cheers, Joe
ps I have a lot of respect for Stillpoints products and the engineering that goes into them. I have a set of Ultra 6 footers under my TT that were one of the most significant improvements to my analog front end...
I use quite a few stillpoints myself. At some point these feet will be directly compared with stillpoints in the same system back to back. That is the only way to make reasonable subjective comparisons between the two. There are of course a ton of variables...listener subjective preferences, different room and component damping/resonance properties, etc. my point is... are we not to mention any other footer inside this Subforum ? That would seem counterproductive. It needs to be done in a respectful manner however.
Hi Joe
No. Not you. In fact, I probably shouldn't have posted that. Comparisons are a necessary part of determining differences. My only concern was that sometimes the comparisons get nasty, and I don't think Steve or I want to be associated with anything like that. Quite the opposite, the comments of the members thus far have been measured and fair.
I apologize to you and anyone else who may have thought I was addressing them specifically.
You are absolutely correct. Please see my previous post. I went over the line and I want to apologize for that. I was concerned about something that hasn't happened and probably won't. I don't know any of you because I don't usually post here (or anywhere), but you're a great bunch.
I think I'll go back to work where I belong.
Now worries.Joe, I would be most curious about a direct comparison between the CS footers and the Qpods. If you do such a comparison, will it be with the rest of the components already sitting on CS footers, or will it be a simple direct comparison between the CS and the Qpod under one component with a description of the differences you hear? I hope you do this with your familiar system without any other variables added to confuse things.
Steve, is this Jack's post to which you refer? If it is, then I think you and Jack are saying slightly different things. Jack brings up products that get introduced here and those threads that have heavy participation from principals. I think you are referring to the manufacturer's sub forums which include the likes of Magico, Wilson, Boulder, DartZeel, etc. For me, it is a matter of perception. Those subforums are wonderful and seem to be places where members can discuss any number of products from a particular manufacture. In most cases, the manufacturers are well known and established, and the degree of interest and number of threads warrants a separate subforum in which those threads can be collected for easier reference later. Sometimes the manufacturers even join the discussion, and that is wonderful.
I see the current trend to be somewhat different. In the specific cases of Stillpoints, MasterBuilt, Stacore, and now Center Stage, these are threads based around specific product introductions and promotions. These threads were started by enthusiastic members who wanted to share their experiences in these pages and to create buzz. In your case with CS, it is also a business. To me, these examples exhibit more hyperbole and promotion than the typical thread about a new speaker from Wilson or Magico, or amp design from Pass Labs or Boulder. These are niche products which are basically being launched, specifically in the pages of WBF. In a couple of cases, the marketing, return policy, and trial periods are being discussed between the members, the sellers, and the manufacturers. Those members who share their views on these threads are basically giving direct feedback to those who represent the products. This is like beta testing during the initial product launch and marketing campaign. For me, this is a distinction with a difference. One is a subforum for a manufacturer where we can discuss the brand, a specific product or an entire line of products. The other is a specific product launch where WBF has become the marketing branch and customer feedback source for the company.
So yes, I agree with Jack that there is some precedent, but I do not think it is as universal as you suggest. MaterBuilt was a precedent for Center Stage. Perhaps the Herzan threads were a precedent for Stacore, but Wilson and Pass are not precedents for new companies like Stacore and Center Stage. There seems to be a difference between the larger, more established companies having subforums and these new, little known new players. Again, for me it is all about perception. I don't know the actual data, it is just a feeling I am getting about a slight tonal shift in the direction of this site. I'm not saying it is good or bad, nor am I in a position to have any influence on what the purpose of this site is. It is a private site, and you are the owner who can choose to set policy and direction, and the Terms of Service. You can also ban dissenting opinion. I am a strong defender of the rights of private business owners. I'm just sharing my recent observations.
It is hard for me to gauge how influential audio forums really are. They now advertise like the magazines, reviews get uploaded and discussed, consumer feedback is gathered and products are launched and brand awareness is created and expanded. Magazines used to fill this role, but I hardly even read Stereophile or TAS anymore. Few dealerships exist anymore. As has been discussed for years, a major transition is taking place. I see this site evolving too, and it seems to be more and more a virtual place for audiophiles and manufacturers and now sellers to do business. It used to be a place to simply discuss ideas and share listening impressions.
Peter, I directly discussed buzz on Entreq that I set off some years back with the UK distrbr.
I was told very few sales resulted directly from it, ie no one ever said they try/buy as a result of my words, or those of Barry2013 who kinda took the baton on.
First, I was suprised, I thought there might be more knock on effect for a niche product.
It didn't damp my enthusiasm for talking about it, so pivotal was it in wrangling me a half decent sound back in London.
The distribr was grateful however because it contributed to brand awareness, and this all in the long run helps visibility and the brand becoming established with provenance.
To some extent I'm doing the same thing w Stacore, and I feel like I have a duty to inform the community of a really interesting product which despite my initial doubts actually outperformed in my room over the default choice active product. Here, I'm right in at the beginning, maybe my words mean more. Again, if not a single extra sale results, I still feel I'm contributing to what I consider an excellent new enterprise wet its feet, and it would please me no end if Stacore establishes itself as a natural "go to" option in it's sector.
It's a slightly different matter IMHO if the originator of the thread is an active partner in the selling of the product, then it all feels a bit formal and saturation coverage, and now the forum is an official marketplace.
I'll make an admission, I was very close to quitting participation in WBF over the MasterBuilt spat, one of the most wholly negative and vitriolic things I've ever seen on a forum populated by so-called intelligent and reasonable individuals.
I was told very few sales resulted directly from it, ie no one ever said they try/buy as a result of my words, or those of Barry2013 who kinda took the baton on.
First, I was suprised, I thought there might be more knock on effect for a niche product.
It didn't damp my enthusiasm for talking about it, so pivotal was it in wrangling me a half decent sound back in London.
The distribr was grateful however because it contributed to brand awareness, and this all in the long run helps visibility and the brand becoming established with provenance.
To some extent I'm doing the same thing w Stacore, and I feel like I have a duty to inform the community of a really interesting product which despite my initial doubts actually outperformed in my room over the default choice active product. Here, I'm right in at the beginning, maybe my words mean more. Again, if not a single extra sale results, I still feel I'm contributing to what I consider an excellent new enterprise wet its feet, and it would please me no end if Stacore establishes itself as a natural "go to" option in it's sector.
It's a slightly different matter IMHO if the originator of the thread is an active partner in the selling of the product, then it all feels a bit formal and saturation coverage, and now the forum is an official marketplace.
I'll make an admission, I was very close to quitting participation in WBF over the MasterBuilt spat, one of the most wholly negative and vitriolic things I've ever seen on a forum populated by so-called intelligent and reasonable individuals.
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I can understand that. While the eventual outcome was correct (criticism of, and then correction of, misleading marketing information) the process was more difficult than it needed to be).
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