Center Stage2 "LS" Series Loudspeaker Feet

marcbrown

Member
Apr 17, 2018
45
4
15
Another review that is just breaking is the Soulution 760 DAC in TAS by Jon Valin. Jon is a tough critic so if he doesn't like something........ouch. I have the whip marks to prove it. :)

Seriously, Cyrill has been making outstanding equipment for years. He asked us to make feet for his equipment years ago, as a result CS2 exists primarily due to him. Thank you for the leap of faith, Cyrill.
Hey Joe, from your perspective, if either set-up is doable, would one be better off using or not using the hardware to connect speakers to the 1.0 footers? I am planning for the installation of the 1.0s with my Wilson Sophia 3s on carpet, thanks marc brown
 

joelavrencik

Industry Expert
Nov 15, 2016
319
51
113
Chicago
www.criticalmasssystems.com
Hey Joe, from your perspective, if either set-up is doable, would one be better off using or not using the hardware to connect speakers to the 1.0 footers? I am planning for the installation of the 1.0s with my Wilson Sophia 3s on carpet, thanks marc brown
Hi marcbrown

My best recommendation is to forego adapters for now. Placing the LS 1.0s under your Sophia 3s is all that is required to enjoy their effect.

The reason I say this at this point is, we are developing a special custom made "cradle" supported by LS feet that loudspeakers can be placed into. But, custom made is really a misnomer. Something is only "custom" the first time you do it. Since we anticipate making many "cradles" for many different loudspeakers in the future, our 2-fold emphasis right now is to make the entire device as low-cost and performance enhancing as possible. Your feet will be able to screw into the cradle when we have it ready. All LS feet are pre-tapped to screw into "something", you just don't see it.

Do we know a "cradle" will be performance effective? The answer is, yes, based on the excellent results we are seeing with LS feet under Magico M Series loudspeakers. Essentially the M Series tripod is a "cradle". Our objective is to do it better and we have a design in process. Like the LS feet, we need to perfect it before we release it.

So, if you want to convert to another configuration in the future, you will be able to do so. Having said this, I am not ignoring the piece of your question that asks, can I do this now. What I know for sure is that you get the most benefit from the feet when the feet are in direct contact with the bottom of the loudspeaker or in direct contact with the configuration of its unique support base. My concern is the hole in the bottom of your loudspeakers, exposed when you unscrew your diodes. There are 8 gaskets on top of each LS foot and I'd prefer that all 8 touch the bottom of your 3s. I'm being anal.

I hope this seems a reasonable answer to your question. You have great loudspeakers; a substantial and worthy investment in high end audio. I want you to get the most out of your investment in CMS.....

All the Best

Joe
 

joelavrencik

Industry Expert
Nov 15, 2016
319
51
113
Chicago
www.criticalmasssystems.com
Hey Joe, from your perspective, if either set-up is doable, would one be better off using or not using the hardware to connect speakers to the 1.0 footers? I am planning for the installation of the 1.0s with my Wilson Sophia 3s on carpet, thanks marc brown
I failed to mention that the LS 1.0 is 2 3/8" in diameter. This means that the center of each diode hole would need to be 1 3/16" from the edge of the loudspeaker to achieve complete coverage. I admit that my answer assumed the center of at least 1 diode hole was closer to the edges based on Steve's experience. I could be wrong in the case of the Sophia 3s. Am I wrong? Please advise.
 

marcbrown

Member
Apr 17, 2018
45
4
15
Hey Joe, to make sure you know my set-up, right now i have the Ultrs5s under my Sophia 3 speakers. All of the U5 footer (which is right at 3" diameter) fits under speaker and does not stick out. As far as hole distance from edge of speaker i can check this evening when at home if you still need that info after what i explained about the U5s fitting under speakers. Also since you brought up the hole in speakers for footers, do you recommend anything for now, or wait for the cradle upon completion to solve that issue? Thanks marc brown
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
You don't need the adapters Marc. Joe suggested the same for now and later you can decide if you want to add them. I saw no need to use them with my speakers
 

marcbrown

Member
Apr 17, 2018
45
4
15
Hey Joe, to make sure you know my set-up, right now i have the Ultrs5s under my Sophia 3 speakers. All of the U5 footer (which is right at 3" diameter) fits under speaker and does not stick out. As far as hole distance from edge of speaker i can check this evening when at home if you still need that info after what i explained about the U5s fitting under speakers. Also since you brought up the hole in speakers for footers, do you recommend anything for now, or wait for the cradle upon completion to solve that issue? Thanks marc brown
You don't need the adapters Marc. Joe suggested the same for now and later you can decide if you want to add them. I saw no need to use them with my speakers
Hey Steve, your assurance is fine, but i hope Joe gives a more complete answer. For instance, in my post i ask Joe about the holes in the bottom of my speakers that he himself was slightly concerned about. Should i get a stainless steel plug or a flat-top screw to screw into hole in order to fill hole? Or is proposed cradle going to solve that concern besides other interface issues? Also not sure if we are on same page, you speak of adapters, but Joe's previous post already recommended no adapters, and brought up the cradles he plans to fine tune as much as possible. That is reason for the question of whether cradle will solve the hole and other interface issues? Thanks for any input given or in future. marc
 

joelavrencik

Industry Expert
Nov 15, 2016
319
51
113
Chicago
www.criticalmasssystems.com
Hey Joe, to make sure you know my set-up, right now i have the Ultrs5s under my Sophia 3 speakers. All of the U5 footer (which is right at 3" diameter) fits under speaker and does not stick out. As far as hole distance from edge of speaker i can check this evening when at home if you still need that info after what i explained about the U5s fitting under speakers. Also since you brought up the hole in speakers for footers, do you recommend anything for now, or wait for the cradle upon completion to solve that issue? Thanks marc brown
Hi marcbrown

Coming back to your Ultra 5s, I have these questions:

Are they screwed into the bottom of your loudspeakers?
Are they flat up against the bottom of your loudspeakers? If not, is the bottom of your loudspeaker flat from the edges to the screw hole?

Making progress.

Joe
 

Kingsrule

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2011
1,053
247
485
Do the adapters.
How else are you going the move the speakers for final positioning?
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Do the adapters.
How else are you going the move the speakers for final positioning?
The reality is that I have found correct speaker position should be achieved before you place these footer IMHO. Thats why I don’t need adapters and I’ve had both the LS 1.5 and the LS 1.0 under my speakers. Of course as they say YMMV
 

marcbrown

Member
Apr 17, 2018
45
4
15
Hi marcbrown

Coming back to your Ultra 5s, I have these questions:

Are they screwed into the bottom of your loudspeakers?
Are they flat up against the bottom of your loudspeakers? If not, is the bottom of your loudspeaker flat from the edges to the screw hole?

Making progress.

Joe
Hey Joe, yes they are screwed in, but have a small gap by design. I turned my speakers over so i could give you the info wanted. I see if i come in about 3/4" towards the center of each speaker there is only one hole about 1/4" diameter that will be under the footer while the rest is flat for the 1.0s. The reason i say to come in appr.3/4" to the center is to give the 1.0s some flat area to contact and it also takes a 1/2" hole out of equation that is right next to the footer attachment hardware of the Ultra 5s. Let me know if u need anymore info and i really appreciate your professionalism, thanks marc brown
 

joelavrencik

Industry Expert
Nov 15, 2016
319
51
113
Chicago
www.criticalmasssystems.com
Hey Joe, yes they are screwed in, but have a small gap by design. I turned my speakers over so i could give you the info wanted. I see if i come in about 3/4" towards the center of each speaker there is only one hole about 1/4" diameter that will be under the footer while the rest is flat for the 1.0s. The reason i say to come in appr.3/4" to the center is to give the 1.0s some flat area to contact and it also takes a 1/2" hole out of equation that is right next to the footer attachment hardware of the Ultra 5s. Let me know if u need anymore info and i really appreciate your professionalism, thanks marc brown
Thank you for your patience.

I read your post several times and did some research. All things considered, I think you should place the feet where you get the most coverage of their top surface. This will give you optimal performance which is most beneficial to you.

When you insert the feet under your 3s, do so with the Sophias as close as possible to their current position. If you need to change the toe or make a small move, simply grab 2 of the the LS 1.0 saucers at their rim and move them concurrently. The load of your loudspeakers will secure them to your feet for small adjustments.

One of the pairs of speakers I use to dial in the final iteration of all our products has a bottom surface that does not allow the use of adapters with the LS. I used the above method to make minor adjustments to them. No worries.
 

siddh

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2012
24
9
343
Hi Joe,
Curious about the break-in period. If, the speakers are relocated,, either for speaker adjustment or a residence move, will the Center Stages require a new break-in? Also, for Avalon Time speakers, do you suggest the 1.0 or 1.5?
Thanks, Steve
 

joelavrencik

Industry Expert
Nov 15, 2016
319
51
113
Chicago
www.criticalmasssystems.com
Hi Joe,
Curious about the break-in period. If, the speakers are relocated,, either for speaker adjustment or a residence move, will the Center Stages require a new break-in? Also, for Avalon Time speakers, do you suggest the 1.0 or 1.5?
Thanks, Steve
Hi siddh

If the speakers are relocated for adjustment there is no re-settling.

If you move residence, it would be minimal if you shut the system down and restart it with the LS feet under the loudspeakers.

With the Avalon Time, it appears you could do either. The speaker is full range down to 20Hz. That's impressive and you would hear it either way.
 

marcbrown

Member
Apr 17, 2018
45
4
15
Thank you for your patience.

I read your post several times and did some research. All things considered, I think you should place the feet where you get the most coverage of their top surface. This will give you optimal performance which is most beneficial to you.

When you insert the feet under your 3s, do so with the Sophias as close as possible to their current position. If you need to change the toe or make a small move, simply grab 2 of the the LS 1.0 saucers at their rim and move them concurrently. The load of your loudspeakers will secure them to your feet for small adjustments.

One of the pairs of speakers I use to dial in the final iteration of all our products has a bottom surface that does not allow the use of adapters with the LS. I used the above method to make minor adjustments to them. No worries.
Hey Joe, wanted to post before now, but work, due to multiple intermittent problems with some production critical equipment, had me buried. And still does, but at least one is solved. I am at work now but this evening i will post a couple of questions once i recheck something on speaker bottom. One i have now is will the cradle you are working on help with my situation as far as placement under speakers? Or in other ways, thanks marc brown
 

my2sons52

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2017
4
3
70
Maryland
I would like to first start by saying hello to everyone, I’m a long time WBF reader and first time posting. I’m not the greatest at putting pen to paper but I’ll give it my best shot here. To start my review on the new CMS LS 1.5 footers I have to start from the beginning of this journey. I’ve been using the CMS CS2 footers under all my components since earlier this year when I took the plunge to first try a pair under my DCS Rossini & Clock and it just blew me away how much better and lifelike my digital side got from this upgrade, to the point that I would spend so much more time enjoying listening to Qobuz & Tidal compared to prior I would strictly only listen to vinyl. I could not stop there I had to have more CS2 footers under my Preamp, phono stage, tape stage, and my Dan D’Agostino Restless mono amps, yes I went there! All my components took approximately a week to settle in to start to hear the full benefits of the CS2 footers, except for the massive Relentless Amps that took over two weeks of playing music everyday till the CS2 magic finally kicked in.

This brings us to the introduction on the incredible CMS LS 1.5 footers that I ordered in October and I installed under my Wilson Audio XLF’s speaker on 10/25/20 and here the saga begins! The night I installed them I thought I would see if something would change right away so I have to be honest I really did not hear much of a change or difference in sound from being on the footers compared to being on the Wilson spikes, so I left the system streaming music using Roon ( PS-I’m all solid state so I wasn’t too worried about leaving my system running for days) This is where you guys may shoot me because I really did not go back into my room each day to listen for changes I started the process on a Sunday and I own a business and work a lot of hours so I apologize for not being able to give you daily updates. The next time I was able to really sit down and listen was the following Saturday evening which was 7 days later after the install and I have to tell you I was a little worried and concern because I just wasn’t hearing the results that Steve wrote about. The music sounded out of place and the bass was very loose. It was hard to really enjoy this listening session so I called Steve and Joe explained to them what I was hearing and they both agreed that every system is different and to leave them under the speakers and continue to play music. While that is what I did, in fact I had to go out of town for a week, so I left my system running streaming music. When I returned home on a Monday I did not listen to anything till the following Saturday which now is approximately 4 weeks later! So just like last time I started my Saturday evening listening session and BAM!! There it was that CMS magic that I thought I was not going to ever achieve. It’s true when they say it’s like the clouds have parted and everything is so much clearer, detailed and most of all life like. I kid you not it’s as if I’m at the New York Philharmonic and I’m in the front row. By the way I was just streaming Qobuz through Roon achieving this magic. I played the Cecilia version of Amazing Grace (prayers of the whales) in 16 bit 44.1 standard Red book audio that reminds me of losing my mother and it put chills down my back and a tear in my eye it was so life like. The bass extension is amazing to the point I have yet to turn my Wilson Thor hammer subs back on yet. All I can say is you have to try them for yourself to really believe the magic, but I urge you to please be patient with the break in period because when it does finally happen and it will, you will not be disappointed what so ever. Thanks Tony
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Hi Tony

thanks for having the patience. We knew the clouds would part. We have had several users who had a settle in time of 4 weeks. I have learned this is system specific.
 

joelavrencik

Industry Expert
Nov 15, 2016
319
51
113
Chicago
www.criticalmasssystems.com
I would like to first start by saying hello to everyone, I’m a long time WBF reader and first time posting. I’m not the greatest at putting pen to paper but I’ll give it my best shot here. To start my review on the new CMS LS 1.5 footers I have to start from the beginning of this journey. I’ve been using the CMS CS2 footers under all my components since earlier this year when I took the plunge to first try a pair under my DCS Rossini & Clock and it just blew me away how much better and lifelike my digital side got from this upgrade, to the point that I would spend so much more time enjoying listening to Qobuz & Tidal compared to prior I would strictly only listen to vinyl. I could not stop there I had to have more CS2 footers under my Preamp, phono stage, tape stage, and my Dan D’Agostino Restless mono amps, yes I went there! All my components took approximately a week to settle in to start to hear the full benefits of the CS2 footers, except for the massive Relentless Amps that took over two weeks of playing music everyday till the CS2 magic finally kicked in.

This brings us to the introduction on the incredible CMS LS 1.5 footers that I ordered in October and I installed under my Wilson Audio XLF’s speaker on 10/25/20 and here the saga begins! The night I installed them I thought I would see if something would change right away so I have to be honest I really did not hear much of a change or difference in sound from being on the footers compared to being on the Wilson spikes, so I left the system streaming music using Roon ( PS-I’m all solid state so I wasn’t too worried about leaving my system running for days) This is where you guys may shoot me because I really did not go back into my room each day to listen for changes I started the process on a Sunday and I own a business and work a lot of hours so I apologize for not being able to give you daily updates. The next time I was able to really sit down and listen was the following Saturday evening which was 7 days later after the install and I have to tell you I was a little worried and concern because I just wasn’t hearing the results that Steve wrote about. The music sounded out of place and the bass was very loose. It was hard to really enjoy this listening session so I called Steve and Joe explained to them what I was hearing and they both agreed that every system is different and to leave them under the speakers and continue to play music. While that is what I did, in fact I had to go out of town for a week, so I left my system running streaming music. When I returned home on a Monday I did not listen to anything till the following Saturday which now is approximately 4 weeks later! So just like last time I started my Saturday evening listening session and BAM!! There it was that CMS magic that I thought I was not going to ever achieve. It’s true when they say it’s like the clouds have parted and everything is so much clearer, detailed and most of all life like. I kid you not it’s as if I’m at the New York Philharmonic and I’m in the front row. By the way I was just streaming Qobuz through Roon achieving this magic. I played the Cecilia version of Amazing Grace (prayers of the whales) in 16 bit 44.1 standard Red book audio that reminds me of losing my mother and it put chills down my back and a tear in my eye it was so life like. The bass extension is amazing to the point I have yet to turn my Wilson Thor hammer subs back on yet. All I can say is you have to try them for yourself to really believe the magic, but I urge you to please be patient with the break in period because when it does finally happen and it will, you will not be disappointed what so ever. Thanks Tony
HI my2sons52

I really like your post. I think telling the bad stuff is as important as telling the good stuff. You make clear that there is distinctly different evolution in the settling process for each system. You make clear you were concerned things weren't clicking during the settling process and perhaps the performance of your loudspeakers was compromised by the LS feet. These things are important to say because everyone needs to know this.

The "BAM!!", as you put it, is important because it exposes an oddity of the settling process. Owner experience confirms that LS feet, under loudspeakers, tend to put them into prolonged cycle "performance despair", I might call it. The experience you had was the same as mine during the test cycle. Specifically, loudspeakers tend to pop into focus "all at once". The settling process grinds on and on until, I'll use your words, Bam!! And the arrival of the bam is different for everyone.

But, I wanted to ask you something in this public forum. Did you feel like an adjustment to your XLF upper modules was in order when you moved your chair. Steve did not feel it was necessary with his Alexandria 2s, but all loudspeakers are different so perhaps you adjusted yours. If so, was did you simply follow the Wilson guidelines?

I hope you don't mind me asking, but your answer would be beneficial.

All the Best,

Joe
 

my2sons52

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2017
4
3
70
Maryland
Joe to answer your question I'm still in the testing stage with nearfield- I did move my upper modules just one click according to the Wilson setup guide but to be completely honest it hasn't seem to make a whole not of noticeable difference-but this is still a work in progress so I will have to report back.
 

joelavrencik

Industry Expert
Nov 15, 2016
319
51
113
Chicago
www.criticalmasssystems.com
Joe to answer your question I'm still in the testing stage with nearfield- I did move my upper modules just one click according to the Wilson setup guide but to be completely honest it hasn't seem to make a whole not of noticeable difference-but this is still a work in progress so I will have to report back.
I would really appreciate your thoughts as you solidify your opinion. The reason is, I'm beginning to believe that drivers behave differently (in a good way) when their cabinet is placed on these feet. It seems that filling the room with sound nets a bettered (more fluid) driver integration. I might be way over my skis here, but something definitely changes that appears to make tweeter and related driver positions less critical. Please feel free to disagree, if you find differently.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I would really appreciate your thoughts as you solidify your opinion. The reason is, I'm beginning to believe that drivers behave differently (in a good way) when their cabinet is placed on these feet. It seems that filling the room with sound nets a bettered (more fluid) driver integration. I might be way over my skis here, but something definitely changes that appears to make tweeter and related driver positions less critical. Please feel free to disagree, if you find differently.
Those were my findings ...I saw no need to adjust the upper modules on my Wisen speakers after I placed the speakers on the LS 1.5's
 

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