Carver AV 505 Review

[witchdoctor]

I have been a fan of Sunfire gear for many years using the Sunfire TG 3 as my processor and a Sunfire TSEQ 10 subwoofer. I really like the SQ of the Sunfire products ans decided to try biamping my wide channels (or side axis channels as they are called in my Sunfire manual). I didn't want to drop more them $500 for a used Sunfire 5 channel amplifier and my saw a Carver AV 505 5 channel amp rated at 80 watts a channel all channels driven or 125 watts a channel in stereo on Craigslist.
I scored the amp for $130 (less than the cost of one of the power cables in my main rig) and set my expectations accordingly.
First I was surprised by the size of this thing, about 50 pounds and the size of a carry on bag with wheels you take on a plane.
I wanted to evaluate the SQ before dropping it into my main rig so I propped it up on a couple of chairs and connected it to my desktop system driving a pair of JBL 230 speakers. I was expecting the power of a sledge hammer and instead this amp was as delicate as a flower, almost tube like. Music just floated effortlessly from my speakers and when things became more dynamic no strain, no collapse just effortless rendering of the signal. These amps use something called "power steering" so it can direct power to whatever channels need it at the time instead of all channels constantly being driven at the same power. All i can say is that I think that is why this amp presents music so effortlessly, it has a giant reserve to tap whenever it needs it.
I am going to move this amp into my HT rig and now I feel I need to get a Carver 2 channel amp for my desktop (I have been spoiled).
Another nice thing about getting this amp is it has Made in USA stamped on it so no skimping on manufacturing costs.
I highy recommend this amp. If you are adding more speakers for immersive audio height channels and need more amplification check your local Crigslist or E Bay for a used carver amp and use the left over $$$ to buy some other new toys.

 

[treitz3]

Another nice thing about getting this amp is it has Made in USA stamped on it so no skimping on manufacturing costs.

Hello witchdoctor and good afternoon to you. There are many fans of the Carver gear that share your observations of the gear they have or have had in their rigs throughout the years. I would like to correct you on this quoted statement above though, or at least shed some more light on the subject.

Made in America should be more like "assembled in America" throughout many of the years Carver was in business as many of the parts were manufactured elsewhere and brought into the factory in Washington. Also, I know Bob pretty well and he is not a believer in high quality capacitors, resistors, wiring and the like. I'll put it to you this way, he hooks up his highly acclaimed Carver Silver 7 tube amps to power strips. Not the $7,000 kind.....we are talking about the $5 kind you would find at Rat Shack. Yes, I know that they used Monster wiring in some of the equipment but Bob to this day does not believe it made a difference. The BOD at Carver Corp. made that as a business decision/arrangement.

Perhaps you have heard of the Cherry 180's. At an audio event held before they came out to the public, some friends and audio enthusiasts got together and built prototypes of this amplifier high atop a mountainside in NC. Somewhere around 68-70 of them total. We have since modified this amplifier, upgrading the parts that were "skimped" on (basic, run of the mill parts) and made an already wonderful stock amplifier even better. Bob simply does not believe that upgraded parts make a difference in the end result....or if they do, he isn't interested in adding them in during production in order to keep costs down. Many manufacturers share the same thought on keeping a reign on production costs.

The Lightstar gear is about the only exception that I could think of where Carver used parts that were "audiophile grade" throughout. This was not a decision made by Bob himself, but after the board decided to oust Bob from making the final decisions at Carver Corp.. The decision made after Bob was off the authority of that project was to take his design and use whatever parts they could to build the "ultimate" gear still based mostly upon Bob's design. These were to be the pinnacle of Bob's work. For the most part, the Lightstar gear sounded really, really good but production was limited to extremely limited on all of the Lightstar gear. For example, if my memory serves me correctly, there may only be less than 100 Lightstar amplifiers and somewhere around a hand full of preamplifiers.

Tom

 

[witchdoctor]

Hi Tom, Thanks for that excellent info, if you have one of those pre cherry built amps please post a pic.
I saw some info about the AV 505 I want to share. It seems after Bob left Carver Corporation designer Jim Croft was the engineer involved with the Lightstar 2. He then used trickle down tech and in his words some "improvements" on the Lightstar 2 for these amps:
AV 705x/753x/505/405
A 760x/500x/220

http://thecarversite.com/yetanotherforum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=2184

It seems I fell into some luck as my AV 505 are one of the Jim Croft designed Carver amps. according to Jim the only difference between these amps is the amount of power they produce. Check out this review of the 705:
http://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_4_2/av705.html

BTW, it must be interesting to hang out with the man himself. After the 505 goes in my HT rig I need to hunt down another Carver amp for my desktop. I am thinking of the 220, any suggestions?
Any suggestions on a Carver/Sunfire preamp or integrated amp? Thanks

 

[treitz3]

Well, it turns out that I was teaching or helping most of the folks how to build the amplifiers on the mountain that day, so my two never did get built by the time we left. I will be picking up mine either down in Atlanta or at the same event we built the amps at a few years ago. All of the mods and upgrades have been completed and I can post a picture then.

Also, I would like to correct myself. I mis-spoke about the tube amplifier. I took a look at the 180 and I was thinking, "that's not the amp!". Sorry, it's been a while. The amps I have waiting for me are the prototypes of the VTA20S Black Magic tube amplifier. Different tube types, in mono configuration on a glass base with all upgrades and mods including the internal wiring. When I pick it up, I'll be happy to snap a shot for ya'.

In the meantime, here's a shot of one heck of a fun stereo system we built in '09. Silver 7's, pair of Silver 9's (I think only 3 were ever made), the rare Lightstar pre we were speaking about, prototype ribbon speakers never put into production along with some other audio goodies we played with for a couple of weeks up on the mountain. We will be headed back up in about a month. Good times!

Tom

 

[witchdoctor]

OMG, this pic gives me the chills. There is enough power there to launch the space shuttle. So can you recommend a Carver 2 channel setup for my desktop please? I see a Carver 6250 receiver on Craiglist for $50 right now but am thinking one of the A series designed by Jim Croft will be better.

 

[treitz3]

Are you looking for tube or an SS setup?

BTW, if memory serves, I think that was about 2K watts of pure tube power. Really fun to play with and listen too.

Tom

 

[witchdoctor]

I am looking for a solid state setup for my JBL 230's, thanks

 

[treitz3]

I am not that familiar with the Carver integrated gear as I am and always have been a 2-channel guy. If you do ever decide to go with separates, without getting into the rare or unobtainable Carver equipment? I would start to look at the M-500t's. I have heard almost every amplifier Carver has ever built (and all of the various mods as I reviewed them all) and it is of my observations that the M-500t has the sonic characteristics and headroom to do your speakers justice. It has a tube-like sound, is pleasing to the eye, can be had for around $400 in good to great condition if you play your cards right and can tame some of the comments I read about your speakers as being a little on the brighter side.

The second runner up for you from me would be the Carver M4.0t. Either one would do your office rig good. If you would like to talk to some folks who have attended this event and get a little bit more information on integrated Carver amps, I invite you to chat with some folks here >>> http://www.carveraudio.com/phpBB3/?page_id=53

You can also find some information on that site where you can also attend the event with Bob. I will be there this year as well.

Tom

 

[witchdoctor]

Hi Tom, thanks for the tip, i will keep my eye out for a 500t. How would you compare the Lightstar amp to the Silver 7/9 or the Black Beauty?
I am using a Sunfire TG3 for 2 channel and really like sonic holography. How do you think it compares to the Sunfire Classic Tube preamp for 2 channel?

BTW, thanks for the invitation to the site and the event. i joined the site but regretfully can't attand the event. Any chance you can do a google hangout with Bob while you are there?

 

[witchdoctor]

Hi Tom, I just found a Carver A500 for less than $350 in good condition. This is another A series amp like the AV 500. It is 250 watts into 2 channels!
I really liked the AV 500 in two channel, any opinion on the A500? Thanks

 

[treitz3]

Hi, witchdoctor. Please excuse my not chiming in until now. Life keeps getting in the way.

I'll answer your questions the best I can in the order given. The difference between the Lightstar pre/amp combo and the Silver 7's and 9's are night and day....for obvious reasons. The Lightstar gear does have a very clean and natural sound. Many people who have heard the gear agree. Parts and the scarcity of them is what prevented me from acquiring any of the Lightstar gear though. I think Rolland and perhaps James Sauter are the only two people in the world that have some of the most important parts needed for certain repairs and some parts are no longer available period. I didn't feel like paying that much for what may have amounted to a pretty doorstop one day. Also, the headroom on the Lightstar amplifier was not really what I expected it to be. It was clean all of the way up but ran out of headroom rather quickly when pushed under really demanding loads. This obviously wasn't a problem with the Silver 7's and 9's.

The Black Beauty is a much smaller amplifier in terms of power but Bob did it right. It was powerful enough to power a pair of Apogees *at moderate level* but ran out of steam quickly when asked to be pushed. This amp is best suited for a lighter load, 4 ohms or higher. The sound is very pleasing, fluid and enjoyable with plenty of detail without congestion within instruments or vocals. I am talking about the stock Black Beauty's and not the upgraded ones. The upgraded ones are a completely different animal as they use different tubes that utilize different voltages and double the output. If memory serves, both the upgraded and stock Black Beauties can be configured to run mono or stereo.

When it comes to Sunfire gear, I really never paid it that much attention. The sonic signature that they offered were not really what I was looking for. You might want to hit up the boys over at the other two forums to see what their observations are with regards to Sunfire. With what little I did pay attention too with Sunfire, I do have some positive audible memories from the Sunfire Classic tube amp. I don't recall having any with the TG3 but I wouldn't hold that as set in stone and I would most definitely would take my observations with a grain of salt when it comes to Sunfire gear. Like I said, I never really paid them that much attention.

We have tried in the past multiple times to coordinate and offer a live feed from Carverfest but the internet is spotty and even though Tim (one of the owners of the Watershed Cabins) has made many upgrades to the internet, it has just become way too much trouble than it's worth. What we have done in the past to get around this was to have folks offer any questions they would like to ask Bob prior to hosting the event. Then we video tape the questions and answers and post them online. Even though I started the event, I have not attended the past two years so I don't know what the plans are for this year's 'fest. The boys over at both forums would know more as I passed the torch to them a couple of years back. Sorry, but it's not like we hold the event in the middle of a major metropolitan city.....it's literally out in the vast boontillies of the mountains of NC, very close to the Tenn. border way atop a mountain. "Technology" out there is still a century behind. I'll put it to you this way, we are lucky to have a grocery store 7 miles away.

Regarding the AV500, once again, I'm a 2 channel guy......never paid any attention to the AV stuff. The only one I ever had in rotation was the CT-17 way back when I had a TV hooked up to the rig when it was in my office. Those days are long gone.

Congrat's on the new toy. New toys are always fun!

Tom

 

[witchdoctor]

Thanks Tom, I'll post my questions for Bob on the other site. Sounds like a great time

 

[Magnaryder]

So Tom....you're going to make the 'Fest? Tell Kim I have bacon

ray

ring me for couch space or get a cabin. they go public tomorrow

 

[treitz3]

Hello Ray! Staying with Jerry and Niki this year. Not for the entire time but I will be coming up on most likely a Thursday and staying until Sunday. Subject to change depending on business. We will be down in WS1, the Daniel's old cabin. Kimmie and the little one are planning on making it this year as well, most likely just for the weekend. Can you believe he's 7 years old now? Time flies my man....

Tom

 

[witchdoctor]

Any opinions on the Carver CT3 pre-amp?

 

[kleinbje]

I have a vg av705 in sitting idle. Open to offers. Great amp, just hums in my system.

 

[treitz3]

Hi, witchdoctor. I have not heard the CT3 preamp. Most of the preamps that I have heard vary little until you move up to the Lightstar, Sunfire, or C-series the likes of the C-16 or C-19. Welcome to the WBF Sassassin. Most of the Carver gear is found on Craigslist or E-Bay. Carver Corp. has been out of business for a while now.

Tom

 

[witchdoctor]

www.hifishark.com is a great place to find audio gear listed online. Good luck!

 

[treitz3]

Please forgive me for not for remembering this list of audio suppliers I have assembled. This should help you in your journey.

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?9937-AudiogoN-Alternatives-The-Master-List

Happy hunting!!!

Tom

 

[witchdoctor]

Where can I find a Carver 505 to buy as well? I tried https://www.amazon.com/ ... I don't know where these things are usually sold on...

Here, the AV 705 is the 505's big brother coming in at 125W a channel instead of 80:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carver-Prem...143921?hash=item236f98db31:g:H~EAAOSwdzVXpjp2

Local pick up so maybe not the one but you get the idea.