Bakoon Amp-41R and 51R integrated amps using SATRI circuit

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
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#1
Any information or feedback on Bakoon, and relevance thereof re their SATRI circuit?

I listened to the tiny Bakoon 13W model 6-7 years ago on the Cessaro Liszts horns, and was hugely impressed. Slayed Tron 60W 211s and Mola Mola Class D 700W on the same spkrs.

I love my SET amps, but tbh struggle a little w inherent noise and tube hash, and I know this is an impediment to ultimate transparency.

As a lover of left field brands and vfm/SQ maximisation w interesting engineering approaches, Bakoon should be right up my street.

Would be the amp for my current Zus, the soon to be released update to them, or a move to horns.
 

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
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#2
Any information or feedback on Bakoon, and relevance thereof re their SATRI circuit?

I listened to the tiny Bakoon 13W model 6-7 years ago on the Cessaro Liszts horns, and was hugely impressed. Slayed Tron 60W 211s and Mola Mola Class D 700W on the same spkrs.

I love my SET amps, but tbh struggle a little w inherent noise and tube hash, and I know this is an impediment to ultimate transparency.

As a lover of left field brands and vfm/SQ maximisation w interesting engineering approaches, Bakoon should be right up my street.

Would be the amp for my current Zus, the soon to be released update to them, or a move to horns.
Heard Bakoon with Sound Kaos (another left field speaker brand) and it was quite good.
 

marmota

Active Member
Feb 3, 2016
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#3
Good questions, I'm interested on Bakoon too, haven't heard one but they seem to be incredibly well implemented and executed designs.

They introduced a new amp not too long ago, the AMP-13R, which has an upgraded Satri circuit ("JET Satri"), that ditches the emitter resistors and goes away with much shorter signal paths compared to all the other amps of Bakoon Korea and Bakoon Japan (the chassis and layout also helped there).
According to them, this tech will trickle up to the bigger models (AMP-41 & AMP-51R), so it may be wise to wait a couple of months (or a year or two? no one knows) for the new, upgraded models.
Bakoon (Korea) also had a DAC and a Phono but now they do not appear on their website, probably the new JET Satri tech will be implemented on the DAC and Phono stage too, that would be great.

Bakoon seems to be a very compelling proposition if one owns reasonably efficient speakers with an impedance curve as flat as possible and higher than 4 ohms. Ditto for low impedance cartridges as My Sonic Lab or Air Tight, as their phono preamps are transconductance designs, the lower the impedance of the cartridges, the better.
 
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spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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#4
Marmota, interesting you say that. My Zus, or the updated ones I might get are a genuine 99-101dB, and flattish 6-8Ohms. I was thinking I need to go to at least 50W, but I could try the 25W AMP-13R.

My Bakoon dealer says there is a branding change in the next 12-24 months and the Jet Satri circuit in the 13R will also go in the 41R and 51R.

Tbh, if 25W works in my room, £5k on the 13R could prove a real bargain. I've got a chance to demo whenever I want.
 

morricab

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Apr 25, 2014
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#5
Marmota, interesting you say that. My Zus, or the updated ones I might get are a genuine 99-101dB, and flattish 6-8Ohms. I was thinking I need to go to at least 50W, but I could try the 25W AMP-13R.

My Bakoon dealer says there is a branding change in the next 12-24 months and the Jet Satri circuit in the 13R will also go in the 41R and 51R.

Tbh, if 25W works in my room, £5k on the 13R could prove a real bargain. I've got a chance to demo whenever I want.
I would be surprised if it can give your NATs a legitimate run for the money.
 

marmota

Active Member
Feb 3, 2016
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#6
Marmota, interesting you say that. My Zus, or the updated ones I might get are a genuine 99-101dB, and flattish 6-8Ohms. I was thinking I need to go to at least 50W, but I could try the 25W AMP-13R.

My Bakoon dealer says there is a branding change in the next 12-24 months and the Jet Satri circuit in the 13R will also go in the 41R and 51R.

Tbh, if 25W works in my room, £5k on the 13R could prove a real bargain. I've got a chance to demo whenever I want.
As far as I could understand reading about the Satri circuit, it is a transconductance amplifier with an I/V converter to avoid the gross frequency response aberrations that would happen if paired with a typical loudspeaker (the usual reactive load that varies considerably with frequency). If it didn't had the I/V converter, it could only be used with speakers with resistive impedance (read: planars or cone speakers with extensive impedance correction circuits).
The thing with an amplifier that is current based such as Bakoon is that they don't have damping factor (zero feedback current drive design) and it's power doesn't increase if the impedance decreases, the AMP-13R should have 25 watts both at 4 and 8 ohms. To get the maximum out of such amps, a speaker with an impedance as flat as possible and over 4 ohms is required, +90db-1 watt sensitivity would be a good idea too.

Basically, almost SET amp territory, they better sound great and un-transistor like to be successful, that's why I'm interested, I'm kinda tired of the grey sound of most transistor amps I've heard, but the real bread and butter tube amps that don't sound overly warm or colored cost a fortune, for the price they're asking for the AMP-13R (or the AMP-41), if the sound is as grainless, pure and lively as expected, I see it as a nice offer, but that's a big if. I would like to hear them myself once they update the designs.
 
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spiritofmusic

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#7
Marmota, all I can say is I heard the Bakoon on Cessaro Liszts horns, and it was a really beguiling sound. Either the 13R or it's predecessor. And I've heard the same spkrs on 211 SETs and 700W Class Ds, and the Liszts were decidedly ordinary.
 
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spiritofmusic

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#8
I would be surprised if it can give your NATs a legitimate run for the money.
I do hope so Lol.
Brad my only issues w the Nats is they're not dead silent. This was also highlighted by The General and Audiophile Bill when auditioning Nat Magmas v Mayer 46 amps on Pnoes; and a slight emphasis on lower mids which doesn't always sit well w my Zus which can be a tad opaque in that region.
 

morricab

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Apr 25, 2014
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#9
I do hope so Lol.
Brad my only issues w the Nats is they're not dead silent. This was also highlighted by The General and Audiophile Bill when auditioning Nat Magmas v Mayer 46 amps on Pnoes; and a slight emphasis on lower mids which doesn't always sit well w my Zus which can be a tad opaque in that region.
I never said there weren't better SETs out there ;)...the brand I represent comes to mind...however, NAT is one of the best values out there (except maybe the Magma).
 

AMR / iFi audio

Industry Expert
Aug 21, 2019
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#10
They introduced a new amp not too long ago, the AMP-13R, which has an upgraded Satri circuit ("JET Satri"), that ditches the emitter resistors and goes away with much shorter signal paths compared to all the other amps of Bakoon Korea and Bakoon Japan (the chassis and layout also helped there).
There was some interesting feedback on this puppy at 6moons a while ago. I'm not sure whether as a manufacturer we can post such links, but the article is easy to find.
 
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spiritofmusic

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#11
Sjraen's review was a good read. As was the HiFi Knights review of the AMP-13R. It's certainly a brand I might investigate, esp w my stellar experience of it some years back.

But my Nats despite certain quibbles will remain a tough act to beat. And I'm extremely wary of any SS tendency to grain and greyness of tone. Bakoon would really have to not fail here to seriously consider it.
 

morricab

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Apr 25, 2014
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#12
Sjraen's review was a good read. As was the HiFi Knights review of the AMP-13R. It's certainly a brand I might investigate, esp w my stellar experience of it some years back.

But my Nats despite certain quibbles will remain a tough act to beat. And I'm extremely wary of any SS tendency to grain and greyness of tone. Bakoon would really have to not fail here to seriously consider it.
As a former NAT owner I think You would have to have a momentary lapse of reason to switch your NATs for Bakoon...just IMO of course...
 

spiritofmusic

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#13
As a former NAT owner I think You would have to have a momentary lapse of reason to switch your NATs for Bakoon...just IMO of course...
Well Brad, i AM a huge Floyd fan...lol.

Understood, I'm picking holes in my Nats ownership. So many things done well, especially the visceral heft in mids/upper bass. Hard to do without.
 

spiritofmusic

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#15
All I can say is the little Bakoon was hugely dynamic and lacking in grain running the Cessaro Liszts. Got me reassessing my view on SS. At the point of the demo, I had been running SETs for a couple of years, and I thought nothing could sway me. Bakoon in pole position if I ever seriously want to consider switching back to SS.

But I have a better appreciation of the unique properties of triodes, and there's no doubt my formula of medium power SETs on high efficiency spkrs w Class D subs in a very large room produces magic. I would really need to listen long and hard to Bakoon to even consider a permanent change.
 

spiritofmusic

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#17
Indeed. Any change would be on the benefits of maybe greater speed, transparency and linearity of Bakoons versus established pluses of current tone density, heft, and texture apparent from my Nats.
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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#19
It's more just a suspicion or hint of overly lower mids tilted balance. Now this is a good "problem" to have Lol. But certainly the centre of gravity of my sound is lower than the Audion Black Shadows 845 tubes and Hovland HP200 tube pre/Radia SS pwr I ran previously. And w my Zus having a hint of opaqueness thru their full range drivers, the sound can lack the last degree of transparency.

Certainly if I consider going for the new version of my Zus, reports of the new generation supporting their big advance in neutrality and lack of colouration, it would be an ideal opportunity to consider Bakoon.

Additionally, I have some low level tubes-related hash that would be great to eliminate.

And Phil/213Cobra is of the strong opinion that 211 amps, of which my Nats SE2SEs are, wouldn't be his first choice.

So, no real complaint, just suspicions. And that's all that I can say veers negative, since the overall holistic presentation of Nat triodes on Zus is hugely compelling.
 

JackD201

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Apr 21, 2010
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