Axpona 22’ pictures

morricab

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Apr 25, 2014
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Part 2

Elliot Goldman at Bending Wave had excellent sound as well (in a tough room) with the Goebel Divin Marquis loudspeakers, CH Precision pre/power and Wadax DAC. I first heard this system about 3 weeks ago when I stopped by Elliot's place for a long listen when visiting family in Elliot’s neck of the woods in FL. My take on the Wadax is that it is clearly a good unit, but it just isn’t suited for me in my system. I’m of the belief that, as Dave Wilson said, you need a tube in their somewhere. Since I have a SS preamp and amp, I count on a tube Lampi DAC to provide some tube magic. My sense is the Wadax provides a different picture than the Lampi, particulary in the ability of these units to float harmonics and provide a sense of depth in space. This seems to me, to be a classic vanilla, chocolate, and strawberry dilemma with preference determined by who’s eating the ice cream. One might think the Wadax would be a good fit with tube gear but at the VTL display, I was disappointed again. I know the VTL gear well having owned their excellent preamp and amp for several years (before moving to Soulution gear). As soon as I heard a well recorded Beethoven violin concerto I remarked to myself that anyone who thinks that’s the sound of a violin has very different opinion as to what a violin sounds like than I do. The tone was lovely, the distortion was extremely low, but it was flatter than the real thing to a degree that for me, detracted from the life of a real violin playing. Frankly, I prefer the sound of my Lampi GG2 (my version of Haagan Daz vanilla, I guess!).

There was a surprisingly good low priced performer (another newcomer to me) called Alta Audio who makes wonderful 2 and 3 way speakers out of Huntington NY. They were demoing their 2 way with a cool Chinese class A amplifier (50K/pair) playing Ahmad Jamal to a silent and observant room. 17K speakers. Very nice. I also liked the Vimburg room (as I did in 2019). Conspicuous absence- ARC and Wilson. Conspicuous presence- VAC and Aurender.

Question- if Darth Vader were a piece of audio gear, what would he be?
Answer-The new Gryphon Apex amplifier. O my lord, what a beast! 450+ lbs of intimidation that happens to play music!

View attachment 92023

I spent a long time trying to understand Wally tools. I have new found respect for how nearly impossible it is to set up a cartridge correctly. It’s frankly amazing to me we get sound as good as we do. We are so totally in the dark about issues such as zenith. It’s a more intimidating science than I first gave it credit for so I have some learning to do.

I’ll end my notes the same way I began, with a reminisce. The hands down best room at the show for me (but not for the sound) was the Wilson WAMM system, serially number 001.

View attachment 91977

Some guy bought this system from a private user and rented a room to display it in all it's working glory using the same gear Dave Wilson used when he displayed it in public in 1986 (now with new D'Ag amps for the subs). Crown crossover, Krell amps, original brochure, original invoices!! It was a rocket ship in time travel back to audio SOA 35 years ago!!



View attachment 91975 View attachment 91976

It brought back unbelievable memories. Worthy of tears. Sadly, the sound was not particularly good and in fact it's almost hard to believe this really was the state of the art only 35 years ago.

But wow, whoever put on that display deserves a prize. I don’t see how they made any money from that display so I take my hat off to the sponsor. This was the closest thing I’ve seen to the old days at the SHOW in Vegas when 4 local guys rented a hotel room wherever the SHOW was held, filled the tub with beer and wine, hooked up a Sansui receiver to some KLH speakers and a lava lamp, and partied all night, every night. They basically bought drinks for anyone that stopped by. Thanks to this Wilson demo that spirit was refreshed at AXPONA..
It wasn't SOTA 35 years ago...just advertised as such...
 

Alrainbow

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2013
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NYC , USA

This speaker looks interesting.

It would have been nice if I could go there this year.
I spoke to them a few times. like you it’s design was interesting to me.
They are only 81db eff the amp he used was 350 watts at 8 ohms. they were not open baffle as I thought but sealed boxes. the mirror he had behind them was. For show to let viewers see the back.
Nice polish makers cool to talk too. before you entered there room was an odd metal cone ona stand each side of the door. they are speakers too. There not a complete model yet he needs a sub
but there goal is speaker’s that don’t look the part
 

Apk99

Member
Nov 9, 2021
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I spoke to them a few times. like you it’s design was interesting to me.
They are only 81db eff the amp he used was 350 watts at 8 ohms. they were not open baffle as I thought but sealed boxes. the mirror he had behind them was. For show to let viewers see the back.
Nice polish makers cool to talk too. before you entered there room was an odd metal cone ona stand each side of the door. they are speakers too. There not a complete model yet he needs a sub
but there goal is speaker’s that don’t look the part
I also enjoyed this room and speakers. Here is a picture I captured showing the mirror effect
20220422_115629.jpg
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
9,660
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North Shore of Boston

This speaker looks interesting.

It would have been nice if I could go there this year.

Interesting or different looking for sure. Not great music for a demo. The guy front center had a pretty sophisticated looking recording device with two mics.
 

Verastarr

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2015
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125
I have great difficulty understanding why anyone would watch video from that person. Taking restaurant advice from the kid at the drive in window at McD is to me about the same.
Audio shows are just that a show and they can only at best give an inkling of what products are about. I have said many times the room, seating position and the placement of the speakers are the foundation for getting great sound. This in a hotel room is virtually impossible and particularly impossible in the few hours allowed to get the gear to the room, unpacked and working. They are important at a people level as it is a time to gather, talk, enjoy and exchange opinions and ideas. I love the shows! I only wished this time that I had some of our business partners were able to attend. I didn't get to see any of the show once it opened however I thought the show was busy, attitude was upbeat and that people were enjoying the event. I do not think that anyone is trying to take advantage of anyone and that we all know what we are signing up for. No show environment is going to be perfect, no show will go without issues and I agree with some of the opinions here that things like name badges for all would be a really good idea. My company will continue to support the events, hopefully do better next year as our experience in the room will allow some pre show planning to try to get better and better results going forward. I know how hard it is for everyone to go and put forth the effort to show and entertain all the visitors. I do not see this as the attempt to take advantage of anyone.
I have an expression that I use frequently and I am sorry I don't remember who's quote it is but it goes like
"perfect is the enemy of great" No event can be perfect but it does not mean it can't be great or at least great fun.
Till the next imperfect event Bending Wave will be there and try our best.
Hey Elliot, you dont know me. Id like to come visit your store with a $24K DAC and make a video of it against your Wadax most expensive DAC in the world. I think the forum members would love to see this ... Im willing to prove my system building prowess to you and challenge your own.
 

Verastarr

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2015
89
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125
Yeah, the OCD guy is a dealer. I dont see him going through the effort to set up a room. He just sits back and throws rocks. I used to watch some of his videos back during covid but have since stopped. He is one of the people who says that the stuff he sells is magic and everything else sucks. Not cool.
The reason you dont see me going through the effort to put together a room is because you are too new to HiFi..LOL

Heres a video of me exhibiting in my room 11 years ago when Mark Levinson chose me as his USA Representative for Daniel Hertz. This video was ten years after I started exhibiting..


The stuff I sell IS magic, come here. I will prove it. I NEVER say things suck.. I say I dont like them.

wow.... youre a hater...
 
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caesar

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May 31, 2010
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I

I bought all the travel packages and Axpona tickets last year.

But it got cancelled.

This year I could not go since I had something to take care of.

I have yet to assemble Scaena 3.2 that I had bought used 2 years ago.

But I am getting addicted to Altec A7 with active bi amping right now.

It is fun to tune it.

It would have been nice if I could go there this year.

i appreciate many photos and stories done by Mike L and other people.

ThomasK,
Oh my GOD! I know Altecs have their following for excellent reasons. And when you are ready, think you are in for an incredible journey with the Scaenas. Please share your experiences when you are ready to embark on it.
 
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caesar

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What do you mean with "sounds like hifi"?
audio file vocabulary, no emotion . Like virtually all wilson / audio reseach systems I have heard. Guys who share my taste know exactly what I am talking about :) Hahaha

PS . should start a thread on this, LOL
 

caesar

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May 31, 2010
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Man I feel for you lol. negative energy is not cool over all.
People arguing about how their taste is better than someone else's without being honest about the trade offs does it all the time. Hahaha
 

caesar

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May 31, 2010
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Whats wrong with that?
Ever opened a car magazine or a Yacht magazine??
Its the audiophiles own fault they treat some like gurus and take every word literally .
See it as a combination of own opinion and marketing and everything will be fine .
Hi Andromeda ,

in advance, sorry for the rushed response , I’m busy and pulled in 3 dozen different directions . right now! so no time for a more thorough reply.

But , yeah, what you describe is what we have now: A bunch of old shriveled, impotent, deaf? (can they hear all highs?) - so called “experts” have been pushing really bad sounding gear - in exchange for large discounts and long term loans of Wilsons and Magicos.

With their incentives not aligned with their readers, they are the polar opposite of trusted advisors. These people provide incomplete and misleading information about their favorite gear.

And what are the results? Surprise, surprise: A dying industry! The People who can actually afford the high prices and are searching for gear, are instead led to waste time and money. Passionate audio fans sometimes fly to a different continent to hear something . Some less experienced hobbyists may have been saving their whole life, for a dream system , but are mislead by the so called experts.

From a personal stand point, it took me a good number of years to get through all the garbage and misinformation . A lot of trial and error! It took a long time to get the lay of the land, and now every time I turn on any of my systems, it’s a WOW experience. My friend, not so lucky. He finally saved and cobbled together a Wilson - audio research system based on the hype , and it contributed to his (painful and expensive) divorce. And after all that, his system SUCKED!!! In comparison to my friend, I lucked out!

(Of course there are many guys who like that analytical and dynamically weak type of wilson- audio research sound. God bless them. But if the “expert” is not honest about weaknesses and trade offs , which becomes clear during comparisons, and stepping outside of one’s imagination to understand others’ realism triggers, he’s just a worthless, slobbering sycophant of those brands...after all , audio research got sold off because of the serious issues I describe. )

But to get to your main question of "what's wrong with that", first, there are ethics. Why not be fully honest and open about strengths and weaknesses of gear? Why have the “audio journalists “ in this industry chosen to emulate Bernie madoff instead of warren buffet? Buffet is trustworthy because he openly reveals weaknesses and mistakes.

Yet, most of the “experts” we have in the hobby are not credible. Except for “Yoda” Valin and “fearless” Michael Fremer. These guys, although imperfect , are not scared to talk about a product’s drawbacks. (Examples: Valin: MBL will never have box speaker pin point imaging or please guys acclimated to box speaker sound ; fremer: Wilson wamm bam junior is not for high efficiency , horn guys, but for traditional audiophiles.). The rest of these idiots promise Wilson wamm bamm junior to be a “time machine “, but when many people go hear it, they perceive it’s sterile drek. Travel 6,000 miles thinking you’ll get a "time machine" but instead get an analytical presentation of the recording, with the designer’s strong coloration/ sonic signature.

Furthermore, there is no trustworthiness . These "audio journalists" have destroyed it. Most of these , so called experts, will never recover. Their reputations will stay with them for the rest of their careers, and post their deaths . The servers with their advice will likely outlive them , and future generations will know them for the disgusting charlatans they are

These guys treat audio fans like idiots. Only idiots believe every piece of gear reviewed is flawless, metaphysical perfection. Everyone else is suspicious of the phony claims . Especially the new guys coming into the hobby, who are not as familiar with the audiophile culture, and are used to dealing with honest, principled people.

Finally, by dwelling on the strengths of the bigger brands, while whitewashing their weaknesses and avoiding discussion of trade offs, the “audio journalists” have skewed the balance of power toward the larger brands even further . As a result, smaller brands are ignored, hurt, and not able to distinguish themselves . And in a social online environment, it’s embarrassing to own a smaller brand that no one wants to share experiences about. Zesto vs. audio research? Pass Labs vs. Wells Audio?

Overall innovation suffers. People who don’t like the hifi - sounding dreck these guys are pushing don’t even get to hear the smaller brands , which they may enjoy, further hurting the industry.

Because the smaller brands are not (1) distinguished and differentiated enough, and (2) because they can’t reach a larger audience, they are doomed forever to mediocrity (from a business perspective). And so is our industry .

Our society is flush with cash. So many millionaires and billionaires these days. If high end audio were a better experience , more people would grin and immediately arouse emotional reactions upon hearing music on these Uber expensive systems that the elites and experts are peddling, New folks would flock to this hobby like kids to a park!

Bottom line: Most of these experts and “audio journalists” shot their reputations and reputations of the brands they write for . The owners of the publications have traded short term profits , coming from pretty pictures of Wilson, Magico and soultution , for long term viability. Every exaggeration, once detected by others, destroys their credibility and makes all they say suspect , at best, and makes many feel true disgust at worst. And it has had a malignant impact on the hobby

Back to regularly scheduled programming.: Guys would rather argue about their tastes and preferences … and if you’re an expert , set an example - beat the crap out of the guy who doesn’t share your taste- like valin and breninger fighting about the best turntable
 
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caesar

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May 31, 2010
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I had listened to MBL radial speakers about 15 years ago at CES Las Vegas.

I was not that impressed with it at that time.

But this video sounds very attractive.;)

MBL is a very polarizing sound. Just like every other popular brands. This years setup was superlative in center seat of the first few rows. If you don't like that, you will never like any of it
 
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howiebrou

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Jun 29, 2012
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The reason you dont see me going through the effort to put together a room is because you are too new to HiFi..LOL

Heres a video of me exhibiting in my room 11 years ago when Mark Levinson chose me as his USA Representative for Daniel Hertz. This video was ten years after I started exhibiting..


The stuff I sell IS magic, come here. I will prove it. I NEVER say things suck.. I say I dont like them.

wow.... youre a hater...
Whatever happened to Daniel Hertz. Seems to have done a magical disappearing act?
 

Lagonda

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Whatever happened to Daniel Hertz. Seems to have done a magical disappearing act?
He goes into sleeper mode when the last investor runs out of money ! ;)
 

Lagonda

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Feb 4, 2014
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Hi Andromeda ,

in advance, sorry for the rushed response , I’m busy and pulled in 3 dozen different directions . right now! so no time for a more thorough reply.

But , yeah, what you describe is what we have now: A bunch of old shriveled, impotent, deaf? (can they hear all highs?) - so called “experts” have been pushing really bad sounding gear - in exchange for large discounts and long term loans of Wilsons and Magicos.

With their incentives not aligned with their readers, they are the polar opposite of trusted advisors. These people provide incomplete and misleading information about their favorite gear.

And what are the results? Surprise, surprise: A dying industry! The People who can actually afford the high prices and are searching for gear, are instead led to waste time and money. Passionate audio fans sometimes fly to a different continent to hear something . Some less experienced hobbyists may have been saving their whole life, for a dream system , but are mislead by the so called experts.

From a personal stand point, it took me a good number of years to get through all the garbage and misinformation . A lot of trial and error! It took a long time to get the lay of the land, and now every time I turn on any of my systems, it’s a WOW experience. My friend, not so lucky. He finally saved and cobbled together a Wilson - audio research system based on the hype , and it contributed to his (painful and expensive) divorce. And after all that, his system SUCKED!!! In comparison to my friend, I lucked out!

(Of course there are many guys who like that analytical and dynamically weak type of wilson- audio research sound. God bless them. But if the “expert” is not honest about weaknesses and trade offs , which becomes clear during comparisons, and stepping outside of one’s imagination to understand others’ realism triggers, he’s just a worthless, slobbering sycophant of those brands...after all , audio research got sold off because of the serious issues I describe. )

But to get to your main question of "what's wrong with that", first, there are ethics. Why not be fully honest and open about strengths and weaknesses of gear? Why have the “audio journalists “ in this industry chosen to emulate Bernie madoff instead of warren buffet? Buffet is trustworthy because he openly reveals weaknesses and mistakes.

Yet, most of the “experts” we have in the hobby are not credible. Except for “Yoda” Valin and “fearless” Michael Fremer. These guys, although imperfect , are not scared to talk about a product’s drawbacks. (Examples: Valin: MBL will never have box speaker pin point imaging or please guys acclimated to box speaker sound ; fremer: Wilson wamm bam junior is not for high efficiency , horn guys, but for traditional audiophiles.). The rest of these idiots promise Wilson wamm bamm junior to be a “time machine “, but when many people go hear it, they perceive it’s sterile drek. Travel 6,000 miles thinking you’ll get a "time machine" but instead get an analytical presentation of the recording, with the designer’s strong coloration/ sonic signature.

Furthermore, there is no trustworthiness . These "audio journalists" have destroyed it. Most of these , so called experts, will never recover. Their reputations will stay with them for the rest of their careers, and post their deaths . The servers with their advice will likely outlive them , and future generations will know them for the disgusting charlatans they are

These guys treat audio fans like idiots. Only idiots believe every piece of gear reviewed is flawless, metaphysical perfection. Everyone else is suspicious of the phony claims . Especially the new guys coming into the hobby, who are not as familiar with the audiophile culture, and are used to dealing with honest, principled people.

Finally, by dwelling on the strengths of the bigger brands, while whitewashing their weaknesses and avoiding discussion of trade offs, the “audio journalists” have skewed the balance of power toward the larger brands even further . As a result, smaller brands are ignored, hurt, and not able to distinguish themselves . And in a social online environment, it’s embarrassing to own a smaller brand that no one wants to share experiences about. Zesto vs. audio research? Pass Labs vs. Wells Audio?

Overall innovation suffers. People who don’t like the hifi - sounding dreck these guys are pushing don’t even get to hear the smaller brands , which they may enjoy, further hurting the industry.

Because the smaller brands are not (1) distinguished and differentiated enough, and (2) because they can’t reach a larger audience, they are doomed forever to mediocrity. And so is our industry .

Our society is flush with cash. So many millionaires and billionaires these days. If high end audio were a better experience , more people would grin and immediately arouse emotional reactions upon hearing music on these Uber expensive systems that the elites and experts are peddling, New folks would flock to this hobby like kids to a park!

Bottom line: Most of these experts and “audio journalists” shot their reputations and reputations of the brands they write for . The owners of the publications have traded short term profits , coming from pretty pictures of Wilson, Magico and soultution , for long term viability. Every exaggeration, once detected by others, destroys their credibility and makes all they say suspect , at best, and makes many feel true disgust at worst. And it has had a malignant impact on the hobby

Back to regularly scheduled programming.: Guys would rather argue about their tastes and preferences … and if you’re an expert , set an example - beat the crap out of the guy who doesn’t share your taste- like valin and breninger fighting about the best turntable
Ceasar, did you catch your wife with a audio reviewer at a Christmas party ?;)
 

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
6,744
2,821
503
Switzerland
MBL is a very polarizing sound. Just like every other popular brands. This years setup was superlative in center seat of the first few rows. If you don't like that, you will never like any of it
My wife loves the sound of MBLs at shows and I know why, the illusion they create is really impressive when set up correctly as is the transparency and feeling of "being there" or "they are here" depending on the recording. However, I hear a metallic edge to the sound everytime I have heard them. Once heard, I cannot unhear it and therefore I cannot live with it. Otherwise, I would perhaps even own this tech...room permitting.
 
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