Avantgarde Trio Luxury VS Tannoy Kingdom Royal

[Uwiik]

Hi all,
I am starting the build of my second system downstairs. I’ve already got Kondo Ongaku amp, Kondo G70 preamp and Kronos Pro with Black Beauty Turntable. I’ve auditioned the Avantgarde Uno and Tannoy Canterbury, I liked and impressed by both but found the Canterbury is a bit veiled compared to the Avantgarde. The dealer said Kingdom Royal doesn’t have that veiled feeling but no stock, must buy and order to listen to one, same with Avantgarde Trio Luxury 26. Both will be a blind purchase if I go ahead. Please advise between the two.

BTW: my dealer also offered to audition the Wolf Van Langa 33221 flagship horn speaker but it’s so huge and boxy I don’t like the design.

 

[Uwiik]

I am looking for totally different sound signature between my bedroom and my mancave systems. Upstairs (bedroom) system as follow:
Kuzma XL DC TT, Jadis JPS3 Phono, Accuphase C3900, Accuphase A-250, Franco Serblin Ktema, Siltech Signature series throughout from Ruby Hill PC to Double Crown XLR and King Speaker cable, Torus AVR16 power conditioner.

Sound is very very transparent, thick, tight, muscular, very fast and detailed and just translate the recording faithfully and truthfully. Bad recording will be very obvious and vice versa. Zero hint of harshness, clarinet will go very very high bordering on sharpness on ear but stop right there before my ears actually feeling it. Bass is big, tight, fast, zero boom, it feels like I have subwoofers. It’s just perfect and 4 of other audiophiles agreed the same. My only wish is female vocal (not a complaint, nothing to complain about really), feel a bit dry for me. Mixed 3 pcs of Telefunken NOS ECC83 with 2 pcs Mullard NOS ECC88 on the JPS3 Phono put the system on steroid and enhance the female vocal greatly thanks for the ECC88 from Mullard NOS but it’s not quite enough yet for me taste. Not sexy enough.

While I love the system very very very much I also miss the sexiness, sweetness, wet and romance of female vocal from an all tube system, I don’t miss the slow speed and soft beat though. Hence my new Kondo purchase for second system downstairs and my serious quest for speaker selection to make all tube system weakness disappear.

 

[howiebrou]

Have you ever thought of pairing your Ongaku with your Ktemas? That would be a sexy, sweet, wet and romantic sound. I paired a Kondo Ongaku with SF Stradivarius for a few years and would have no problem going back to that sound. I would have thought the Canterbury's would be more similar to your Ktemas than the Avantgarde speakers but I love those Tannoys too. I would go for something completely different in your second system. The Kingdom Royals are great speakers too but again, there will be greater similarity with your Tannoys or SF than with the horn speakers.

 

[bonzo75]

The uno and the Canterbury are both quite poor.

Your subject says trios while post says uno. The trio with bass horns is quite superior to unos and duos and one of the superior speakers all round.

For tannoys you have to look at vintage tannoys or the Westminster. The kingdom royal while low expensive and new is not in the same league, because tannoy as a company has been around for decades and things keep changing.

Whether to get the trios or one of the good tannoys, only you can decide. Your room, lifestyle and how you listen to music matters. I would get the trio with bass horns myself if I could afford, between the two

 

[marslo]

Dear Uwiik,
My experience with Tannoys and Kondo gear is limited to audio show presentations but I had Duo Omega G2 , Duo Mezzo XD and now Trio 26 LE.
If you look for "sexy" , warm female voice reproduction I think you should better consider Duo Mezzo XD instead of Trio 26 LE, unless you have enough place for basshorns.
At audioshark Paul from Toronto has Kondo with Duo Mezzo XD and could probably advise you about the sonic attributes of such a combo.

Imho the warmth comes mainly from bass satelites and Trios 26 LE themselves are not especially warm and saturated. All depends on your source, amp and cabling. As for spaekers, upper mid bass is critical for that and the short basshorn in Duo Mezzo XD - thanks to the built in DSP - makes the setup of 80 -200 Hz much easier. Moreover the midrange horn in Duo Mezzo is amplified directly from the amp without any crossover , the bandwith is limited by the shape and the size of the horn.

You can check for yourself if Trio 26 LE presentation in my system is sexy enough for you in Avantgardes thread , the first playback after the installation was made with native DSD recording of Haendel Arias by Johanette Zomer, without any sub.

Avantgarde Horn Speakers | What's Best Audio and Video Forum. The Best High End Audio Forum on the planet! (whatsbestforum.com)

 

[nirodha]

Hi all,
I am starting the build of my second system downstairs. I’ve already got Kondo Ongaku amp, Kondo G70 preamp and Kronos Pro with Black Beauty Turntable. I’ve auditioned the Avantgarde Uno and Tannoy Canterbury, I liked and impressed by both but found the Canterbury is a bit veiled compared to the Avantgarde. The dealer said Kingdom Royal doesn’t have that veiled feeling but no stock, must buy and order to listen to one, same with Avantgarde Trio Luxury 26. Both will be a blind purchase if I go ahead. Please advise between the two.

BTW: my dealer also offered to audition the Wolf Van Langa 33221 flagship horn speaker but it’s so huge and boxy I don’t like the design.

I am never going to buy a product anymore before having heard it at home. Second-hand maybe but also not very likely. If dealers are not interested in going the extra mile... it is their loss. In case of speakers, I paid a shop to have them at home. Why pay? Because it relieved me from the obligation of having to buy them at that particular shop.

 

[Hear Here]

I am never going to buy a product anymore before having heard it at home. Second-hand maybe but also not very likely. If dealers are not interested in going the extra mile... it is their loss. In case of speakers, I paid a shop to have them at home. Why pay? Because it relieved me from the obligation of having to buy them at that particular shop.

I would agree with you there 100% after having my fingers burnt by buying a pair of Martin Logan Expression 13As that were intended to replace 17 year old Avantgarde Unos, but my room decided otherwise! They sounded inferior by everyone who listened.

I'd certainly not buy new unless you know and like the house sound and attributes of the brand. By that I mean that I was happy to order new Duo XDs because (and only because) I already had Avantgarde speakers and was confident the new ones would sound great. They do, but the electrostatics (that sounded great in the showroom and enjoy good reviews) seriously disappointed in my own room.

The Trio in particular is a slightly troublesome speaker judged by the experience of marslo and others, although I'm sure he'll get there in the end. Don't take bonzo's misgivings about other Avantgarde models seriously. The Trio is a much older design compared with the regularly updated and hugely improved Duo. Also the Trio has its 3 horns arranged non-vertically - an unfortunate but unavoidable feature demanded by the physical size of its horns. Other AG models have their drivers vertically aligned, of which the Duo Mezzo seems to be the best. Avoid the horrid Primo!

Also (if you need to apply the XD DSP), bear in mind that it only applies to the active bass (a good things) but this means sub-170 Hz (approx.) on Duos, but limited to only sub -120 (approx.) on the Trios - and then only if you buy Avantgarde XD subs.

My expectation is that the Avantgarde will offer a much more exciting and involving rendition compared with a Tannoy, but you really should try at home first - it's a huge investment so a costly mistake if either speakers doesn't suit your particular room's acoustics. Or look around on the used market where a wrong purchase is likely to result in a very small loss - if any. Peter

 

[marslo]

I agree with Peter , the setup of Mezzo XD is much easier . But I am progressing with Trios / RELs and some recordings sound already fantastic. Yesterday it was a jaw dropping experience with Chesky's Girl from Guatemala . But with worse recordings Trios are less forgiving than Mezzos.
The potential is huge - here I agree with Ked - but the integration is difficult and takes time, especially when there is no enough room for basshorns. Trio LE 26 version is improved compared to the previous regular XD model. And limited to 26 pairs, made only on orders.

 

[jeff1225]

The Westminster is vastly superior to the Canterbury as it has a 13' backloaded horn. When set up correctly, with the super tweeter, the Westminster will be extremely transparent.

 

[bonzo75]

Vintage tannoys, and I assume the Westminster are quite superior to non-trio AG speakers

 

[marslo]

Vintage tannoys, and I assume the Westminster are quite superior to non-trio AG speakers

Ked, I know you don’t like Duos , I am of different opinion.These refurbished vintage Tannoys were very good with Polish TT Tentogra during AVS 2018 in Warsaw but I would not say that better than my former Mezzo XD , quite opposite.

 

[bonzo75]

We don't know what's in those tannoys. Refurbished ones can have any driver and any cross over.

 

[matakana]

Hi all,
I am starting the build of my second system downstairs. I’ve already got Kondo Ongaku amp, Kondo G70 preamp and Kronos Pro with Black Beauty Turntable. I’ve auditioned the Avantgarde Uno and Tannoy Canterbury, I liked and impressed by both but found the Canterbury is a bit veiled compared to the Avantgarde. The dealer said Kingdom Royal doesn’t have that veiled feeling but no stock, must buy and order to listen to one, same with Avantgarde Trio Luxury 26. Both will be a blind purchase if I go ahead. Please advise between the two.

BTW: my dealer also offered to audition the Wolf Van Langa 33221 flagship horn speaker but it’s so huge and boxy I don’t like the design.

Have you considered the 12 inch Fyne audio ( ex Tannoy boys )

 

[bonzo75]

Have you considered the 12 inch Fyne audio ( ex Tannoy boys )

The real Ex tannoy boys are probably no longer alive. The company is decades old

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hello Uwiik,

Just out of curiosity, why are you considering the Kingdom Royal but not the Westminster Royal Gold? As Jeff writes above there is the Westminster with its secret sauce backloaded horn -- and then there are all of the other Tannoys.

(I love the Westminster Royal. I have never heard AG Duos which after a while I did not find fatiguing.)

 

[tima]

Ked, I know you don’t like Duos , I am of different opinion.These refurbished vintage Tannoys were very good with Polish TT Tentogra during AVS 2018 in Warsaw but I would not say that better than my former Mezzo XD , quite opposite.

Is that a Tentogra turntable with the Kuzma 'arm?

 

[marslo]

Is that a Tentogra turntable with the Kuzma 'arm?

Yes, it is.

Tentogra turntable | Ksawerów | Gramofon Tentogra - Tentogra turntable

Tentogra Turntable I Gramofon Tentogra Oscar jest jedną propozycji odtwarzaczy winylowych powstałych w Polsce. Umów się na odsłuch!

en.tentogra.pl

High Fidelity

highfidelity.pl

 

[Anil Kalagatla]

I agree with Peter , the setup of Mezzo XD is much easier . But I am progressing with Trios / RELs and some recordings sound already fantastic. Yesterday it was a jaw dropping experience with Chesky's Girl from Guatemala . But with worse recordings Trios are less forgiving than Mezzos.
The potential is huge - here I agree with Ked - but the integration is difficult and takes time, especially when there is no enough room for basshorns. Trio LE 26 version is improved compared to the previous regular XD model. And limited to 26 pairs, made only on orders.

Hi @marslo , do you know what's different with the LE 26 version? They look amazing for sure, with the chrome frame (compared to my powder metal coated frames), are the parts and internals different too?

@bonzo75 What are your thoughts on going with a single pair of Basshorns, compared with (let's say) something like the REL 25s or JLAudio Gothams (I have the latter)? Right now, I'm finding that the volume on the subs (after adjustment) is fairly low on the Gothams (a few notches below the middle) - so I was wondering if I can get away with a single pair.

Anil

 

[bonzo75]

I compared the 6 bass horns to a single pair at the AG factory. I was fine with single pair and did my listening on single pair so all my comments are based on the single pair.

I had separately heard the single pair at Geoffrey Armstrong's place, in a approx 6m x 5m room.

I have never heard it with REL, except once 6 years ago which was an older trio version, so can't really comment

 

[BruceD]

I've owned Tannoy Reds/ Golds since the 60s/70's and always make point of listening to as many of the Brand that I come across--both in shows and private setups.

My comparison with the Kingdom Royals--I would not bother the Speaker is Ok but just does not seem to come out of its box--sadly it is not winner
in my book.

The Westminster Royals are the real deal in that heritage range now I feel--no contest.

My first introduction to Avantgarde's was in the early 90s when I first heard them -don't recall if they were named Unos though.
I do however recall the sonic presentation was one of the orchestra playing at the end of a tunnel and honking edge to the vocals

Sadly since then I've heard the latest reincarnations --but not Trios with the full Basshorns --only Trios "ua naturel"

Sorry my opinion of the brand has meditated somewhat-and it is a viable horn product--but I still hear the "tunnel Musicians"

Just my own opinion--and please you must hear all and decide for yourself!

Hopefully when this time of strife eases the ability to hear and appraise will be with us--until --

Good Luck,

BruceD