Anyone Understand Design Approach of Stenheim? What are they doing differently from Magico, YG, Wilson, etc., to have High Sensitivity?

[caesar]

Stenheim seems to be a new, breakout brand and is uniquely positioned to appeal to those who want modern audiophile sound in a handsome box AND to those audiophiles who want the "emotion of tubes", especially SETs, due to their high sensitivity.

Anyone understand what Stenheim is doing differently design-wise from the Magicos, YGs, and Wilsons, three of the most popular brands today, yet whose speakers do not work well with most tube amps (unless one doesn't mind diminished dynamics and a syrupy sound)?

 

[Ron Resnick]

I think this is an interesting topic. Many members have heard Stenheims in Europe. Quite a few members have heard Stenheims in the USA, as well.

I met Jean-Pascal Panchard in person briefly, and he is a friendly, knowledgable and passionate about sound "class act."

PS: I have heard tube amps drive Wilson Alexx and XVX beautifully (to my ears). Brian Berdan, proprietor of the wonderful Audio Element audio salon in Pasadena, California, demos his Alexx V with, among other amplifiers, VTL Siegfried IIs. I am certain I would love that sound!

 

[caesar]

Hi Ron,
Yes, I think large tube amplifiers like VTL would work well on most modern speakers (again, with somewhat reduced dynamics than most SS).

But I think the genius of the Stenheim design is that it can appeal to guys who like medium and low powered amps.

 

[beaur]

A quick look at the specs shows they are quoting their sensitivity with the XX SPL/2.83V/1M instead of the usual 1W/1M. No impedance specs quoted but I would guess that is for 4 ohms which would make it less sensitive with 8/16 ohm tube amps.

I've only heard the monitors with SS amps so I can't comment on what they are like with tubes. I do remember liking them though.

 

[caesar]

I think they are frequently presented with CH Precision at dealers and shows. I am not sure if there is a "deeper" relationship between CH and Stenheim companies.

I also heard them with CH, and it's a little to clean sounding for my taste. I also heard them at the last Axpona with Einstein OTL (70 or 80 W) , and I thought they were excellent, one of the top sounds of the show, and I am not a box speaker guy. An acquaintance heard them with both SET (<20 W) and medium powered tubes and was equally impressed.

 

[Golum]

I'm not really into technical part of the question but regarding the "relationship" maybe I can shed some light. I know personally JPP, Florian, Herve and quite a few other guys whose companies are near Lac Leman (Geneva lake) and the point is, believe it or not, that those guys are in general in a very very good relationship even being friends. So JPP in his new demo room (been there like three months ago for the premiere of Reference Ultime 2) is using electronics from all of his buddies (CHP, DazTzeel, Nagra) depending on the need/wishes and vice versa. Did I mention he was Sales director of Nagra, so hence Nagra is always in the picture . Also as far as I know Serge from Audio Consulting is helping with his ideas, advices, etc.
On another note despite Stenheim speakers being sensitive and "easier load" I never heard them with tube electronics - it was always SS amps and only once I've seen Nagra VPA floating around the old demo room of JPP in Vetroz. So go figure...

 

[heihei]

Key difference between Stenheim and YG / Magico is that Stenheim is ported whilst the other two are sealed.

I've only heard Stenheims at Munich but have always been impressed. I may at some point have the opportunity to hear them at home with the Stern / Heisenberg, which will be interesting, as on paper at least, they should be overkill!

 

[caesar]

I'm not really into technical part of the question but regarding the "relationship" maybe I can shed some light. I know personally JPP, Florian, Herve and quite a few other guys whose companies are near Lac Leman (Geneva lake) and the point is, believe it or not, that those guys are in general in a very very good relationship even being friends. So JPP in his new demo room (been there like three months ago for the premiere of Reference Ultime 2) is using electronics from all of his buddies (CHP, DazTzeel, Nagra) depending on the need/wishes and vice versa. Did I mention he was Sales director of Nagra, so hence Nagra is always in the picture . Also as far as I know Serge from Audio Consulting is helping with his ideas, advices, etc.
On another note despite Stenheim speakers being sensitive and "easier load" I never heard them with tube electronics - it was always SS amps and only once I've seen Nagra VPA floating around the old demo room of JPP in Vetroz. So go figure...

That's quite a social network you guys have in Switzerland! Kind of similar to Silicon Valley, where networks have special importance in the movement of labor, the evolution of influence and power, and the actual production of innovation. But I do wish they had more tube guys in your neck of the woods.

 

[caesar]

Key difference between Stenheim and YG / Magico is that Stenheim is ported whilst the other two are sealed.

I've only heard Stenheims at Munich but have always been impressed. I may at some point have the opportunity to hear them at home with the Stern / Heisenberg, which will be interesting, as on paper at least, they should be overkill!

Very true, on your first point. But so do Wilson and Sonus Faber, yet I find tube amps driving those make "not fully alive" sound.

If you hear the Stern / Heisenberg, please report back. For whatever reason, these guys have not gotten the publicity of the swiss brands.

 

[Golum]

Key difference between Stenheim and YG / Magico is that Stenheim is ported whilst the other two are sealed.

I've only heard Stenheims at Munich but have always been impressed. I may at some point have the opportunity to hear them at home with the Stern / Heisenberg, which will be interesting, as on paper at least, they should be overkill!

Just do it just do it

 

[Golum]

That's quite a social network you guys have in Switzerland! Kind of similar to Silicon Valley, where networks have special importance in the movement of labor, the evolution of influence and power, and the actual production of innovation. But I do wish they had more tube guys in your neck of the woods.

We have some very very very nice tube guys - Tobian Soundsystems for example

 

[KeithR]

very nice sounding up and coming brand - I auditioned them several times on my speaker thread. they distinguish themselves by using paper drivers in ported aluminum cabinets. I found them warm, musical, and dynamic but also a tad dark on Doshi tubes with perhaps a lower soundstage than others. with CH there is no darkness but sounds a bit dry. I left my audition thinking Dart would be ideal.

i am looking forward to hearing the Alumine 5 v2 whenever that comes. i'm sure the cabinet design and crossovers will get better over time. JPP personally answered my email as well - super cool dude.

but they aren't SET friendly at like 93db/4ohms

 

[bonzo75]

Stenheim seems to be a new, breakout brand and is uniquely positioned to appeal to those who want modern audiophile sound in a handsome box AND to those audiophiles who want the "emotion of tubes", especially SETs, due to their high sensitivity.

Anyone understand what Stenheim is doing differently design-wise from the Magicos, YGs, and Wilsons, three of the most popular brands today, yet whose speakers do not work well with most tube amps (unless one doesn't mind diminished dynamics and a syrupy sound)?

I first said this is a good cone and quite superior to wilsons and magicos back in 2016. It has much better integrated bass and gigantic stage. Much quicker, not sluggish. In 2018 did hear the Alumine 5 in the same room and with the same electronics as the 300k Zellation at audio arts. Despite the smaller size, it held its own in bass and oomph, while the Zellaton had more midrange magic and tone (it is more ribbon like at least with the FM electonics). Never heard the Stenheims with valves though.

 

[Hear Here]

Stenheim seems to be a new, breakout brand and is uniquely positioned to appeal to those who want modern audiophile sound in a handsome box AND to those audiophiles who want the "emotion of tubes", especially SETs, due to their high sensitivity.

Anyone understand what Stenheim is doing differently design-wise from the Magicos, YGs, and Wilsons, three of the most popular brands today, yet whose speakers do not work well with most tube amps (unless one doesn't mind diminished dynamics and a syrupy sound)?

Not many Swiss speaker brands but both Stenheim and Piega use aluminium enclosures. I've heard the Piega Coax 711 (alarmingly good) but not Stenheim.

Sensitivities of both brands are in the low-mid 90s so not particularly high but higher than most box enclosure designs and suitable for tube amps, even some SETs. If the cone needs to move a smaller distance to produce high volumes of sound, this is achieved in the sweet spot in the driver's voice coil rather than it being extended to where the driver is working hard to achieve this required volume (well it's a story I've read!), so these speakers should sound better. However far more quality is attributed to system design and drivers chosen.

 

[cannata]

I first said this is a good cone and quite superior to wilsons and magicos back in 2016. It has much better integrated bass and gigantic stage. Much quicker, not sluggish. In 2018 did hear the Alumine 5 in the same room and with the same electronics as the 300k Zellation at audio arts. Despite the smaller size, it held its own in bass and oomph, while the Zellaton had more midrange magic and tone (it is more ribbon like at least with the FM electonics). Never heard the Stenheims with valves though.

PHL PA drivers from France (I believe own by devialet). Corrugated paper. Not superior to anything, but cardboard. Some people like that kind of sound.

 

[Atmasphere]

Stenheim seems to be a new, breakout brand and is uniquely positioned to appeal to those who want modern audiophile sound in a handsome box AND to those audiophiles who want the "emotion of tubes", especially SETs, due to their high sensitivity.

Anyone understand what Stenheim is doing differently design-wise from the Magicos, YGs, and Wilsons, three of the most popular brands today, yet whose speakers do not work well with most tube amps (unless one doesn't mind diminished dynamics and a syrupy sound)?

None of these speakers have the efficiency to qualify for SET operation, unless you have a 100 watt SET (in most rooms, at least in the US anyway).

The highest sensitivity figure I found was 95dB on a speaker that was 4 Ohms. Translated to efficiency, since sensitivity is 2.83 Volts at one meter, if 4 Ohms that means its 2 Watts. Efficiency is 1 Watt/1 Meter, so subtracting 3dB to get to 1 Watt we have 92dB efficiency. This is a mid level efficiency as per the rest of the speakers in the lineup. 'High efficiency' might be 98 or 99dB at the low end; something that might work in most (American) rooms with only 10-15 Watts. Some European rooms are considerably smaller; if in such a room then maybe you could make these speakers work with most SETs.

 

[microstrip]

As far as I have read Stenheim's have low EPDR in the 2 ohm zone - I doubt that they can be successfully used with SET's.

Sometime ago an used Stenheim Alunime V was being offered at a very low price in the local market and I researched it for the Lamm ML3 - it was not suitable at all.

 

[bonzo75]

As far as I have read Stenheim's have low EPDR in the 2 ohm zone - I doubt that they can be successfully used with SET's.

Sometime ago an used Stenheim Alunime V was being offered at a very low price in the local market and I researched it for the Lamm ML3 - it was not suitable at all.

Can you please clarify "research"? Did you hear it, or Google it

 

[microstrip]

Can you please clarify "research"? Did you hear it, or Google it

I have read technical reviews and measurements, googled and asked a Stenheim distributor, as well as reading other reviews by reviewers I consider.

 

[jespera]

Last night I listened to stenheim v and harbeth 40.2 at a friend’s house. Amp was a kondo push-pull.

The stenheim made elvis and armstrong sound in need of blood transfusions. In fact, i was in doubt whether it was the king or a pretender from jutland. Bass was distinctly non-physical. After a few tracks we switched to the harbeths and didnt bother going back.

I have heard them before at a dealer’s with ch precision amp and was also then underwhelmed. An academic experience.

So no, i dont understand the design concept of stenheim. Id say there are more amusing ways to spend 470,000 dkk.