Equi~Tech vs Torus

iostinato

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Mar 7, 2013
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Hi All,

I'm building a kind of hybrid room as an addition to my house for use as a band rehearsal room (I'm a hobbyist drummer), and for home theater use. The framing and treatments have been designed by Rod Gervais, who primarily has experience in studio design. We're in the framing stage now and I'm trying to learn more about optimizing the electrical supply. I'm planning a dedicated panel for the audio and video equipment and recognize the value of an isolated power supply. The electrician can provide a 50A 240V supply from the street. The system will exclusively power a Seaton Sound surround 7.4 setup (active monitors), projector, and associated switching/source equipment. I'll use a separate conventional supply for lighting, HVAC, wall outlets, etc. Mark Seaton and I figured peaks for movies might draw around 57A, so I'm specifically looking at the 10WQ or a similar capacity all in one (AIO) unit from Torus.

It's very possible I'm oversimplifying, but what I'm debating is the merits of a balanced power system (Equi~Tech) for improved line noise rejection, versus the Torus approach which uses standard voltage arrangement but has possibly superior surge (series mode protection) and filter protection. Austin is not known for frequent thunderstorms, but it only takes one and there's gonna be a lot of $ literally on the line. I've read the threads here with Mike L. and Bruce B.'s experiences with the Equi~Tech WQ wall cabinets, and I'd love to hear opinions on why a particular unit was chosen, recommended grounding methods with these units, any other guidance I should give the electrician. thanks!!
 

amirm

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I can't comment on either system. But can add some info about the right way to provide equipment protection. The answer for that always starts with a surge protection device (SPD) right the service entrance. You have the strongest ground there. A branch circuit way away from that will not have an effective ground. Adding SPDs there would be good but will only protect against internally generated surges (e.g. motors starting on HVAC and such). A belts and suspenders approach :) would put series protection at equipment position and SPD at service entrance. Series protection alone in my opinion cannot protect against strong surges as it simply cannot store the full load of an external surge.
 

iostinato

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Mar 7, 2013
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Thank you, and if you ever need to change the forum's name, I suggest BeltAndSuspendersForum a perfect alternative.:b
 

Mike Lavigne

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Welcome iostinato,

congrats on building a room. enjoy the process.

my views toward this question are that the Torus is a very good, low noise, isolation transformer. i've not compared it to the Equi=tech as a stand alone transformer....so i would defer to anyone who may have done that about comaprative performance. if you read the marketing literature about the Equi=tech 'Q' transformers claims are made that it has advantages over conventional isolation transformers. other than saying that my Equi=tech 10WQ wall panel system sounds great, i don't have the technical background to judge the claims made.

OTOH the Equi=tech is a wall panel system, which includes the distribution panel and even thermal sensors and cooling fans. and it's bad ass beautiful in an industrial way. it's also UL approved as a package.

the Equi=tech is also very quiet as far as mechnical hum; which can be an issue with some transformers.

last time i investigated the Tourus it was not cheap...but that was awhile ago. price might be an issue. in any case either of these units will be a great bang for the buck way to go over stand alone power conditioners.

grounding of either unit will depend on where it's located relative to your whole house A/C service and local codes. mine is in a separate building 150 feet from my main service so it's got it's own separate ground rods.
 
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Mike Lavigne

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Mike, are you saying the Torus costs more than the Equi=tech 10WQ

not exactly. to my knowledge the Tourus does not come as a wall panel system, but it might.

a few years a go a separate Tourus 10kva transformer was around $7k. if it's that much then might as well get the Equi=tech.
 

LenWhite

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I encountered issues with the local county permitting authorities when considering a Torus in-wall unit during 2011. The local permitting authority wouldn't approve the installation because Torus balanced power equipment didn't possess the proper US electrical certification. I decided not to pursue installation because of potential insurance consequences.

I also remember Equitech in-wall systems being approved only for commerical US applications at the time.

Ask your electrician to check with your local permitting authority for the specific model you're considering.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
not exactly. to my knowledge the Tourus does not come as a wall panel system, but it might.

a few years a go a separate Tourus 10kva transformer was around $7k. if it's that much then might as well get the Equi=tech.

I agree Mike

I did look into it recently for my new room build and still have it under consideration however so far my room is dead quiet with nothing extraneous heard anywhere
 

zztop7

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Dec 12, 2012
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Austin, TX ??? Lightning - I lived on the 21st floor of an Austin high rise for almost 20 years. There was a major telecommunications setup in the lower levels, and the setup had ~1/2 million dollars in surge protection. ONE DAY lightning hit the building; the lightning did not care. The lightning blasted through everything and wiped out the extremely expensive and extensive components.
I used to watch phenomenal lightning storms from that building.
??? Has something change in Austin since 2001 ???
Best to you,
zz
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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I agree Mike

I did look into it recently for my new room build and still have it under consideration however so far my room is dead quiet with nothing extraneous heard anywhere

i respect that your room sounds very quiet....and i would guess i'd agree if i heard it. but what an Equi=tech does is change your reference for 'quiet' and 'dynamic' and 'refined'. the power supplies in your gear see a better behaved electrical signal and therefore your gear performs better.

i know that before i installed my Equi=tech i had no sense of anything but very low noise. i was out in the country with my own transformer at the street, a dedicated heavy duty panel and dedicated lines. even a dedicated ground rod. doing all the correct things.

with the Equi=tech it was night and day better (relatively speaking). since i had not yet experienced what the Equi=tech could do in my system i had no way to expect what happened. until your ears hear things it's hard to imagine them.

and it was easy to compare directly to the 'dirty' power in my room how things had changed before and after. so that 'control' had not changed.

i'd recommend simply leaving a spot for one to be installed in the future should you want to. that is what i did when i built my room 8 years ago. at that time i did not want to spend the money but made sure it was 'Equi=tech ready'. then when i did do it it was quite straightforward.
 
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microstrip

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It would be interesting to know if the Equi=tech ameliorates sound quality mainly because it is a quality insulating/filter transformer or because its balancing features. The best suggestion would be comparing its performance using a grounded extreme or the middle tap (balanced mode). As I can easily imagine that its owners do not want to carry the experiment, I will have to wait until someday I have an Equi=tech. ;)
 
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zztop7

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Hello microstrip,
"grounded extreme" - are you referring to a dedicated & isolated deep earth grounding rod? or a function of the Equi=tech?
Best to you,
zz
 

microstrip

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Hello microstrip,
"grounded extreme" - are you referring to a dedicated & isolated deep earth grounding rod? or a function of the Equi=tech?
Best to you,
zz

Sorry I was not clear. A balanced transformer has three output wires coming from the secondary - two at the end of the coil and one at the middle point. An usual mains isolating transformer grounds one of the points at the end of the coil and uses it as neutral, the other is life. This is what I am calling a grounded (transformer secondary) extreme.
 

Speedskater

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Sep 30, 2010
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Getting back to AC power wiring.
Everything that you need to know about AC Power and Audio/Video instalations.
They total about 145 pages, but are well worth reading.

The Bill Whitlock of Jensen Transformers Seminar paper
http://www.jensen-transformers.com/an/generic seminar.pdf

The Jim Brown of Audio Systems Group white paper
"Power and Grounding for Audio and Audio/Video Systems"
http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/SurgeXPowerGround.pdf

"Power White Paper" from Middle Atlantic.com
http://www.middleatlantic.com/power.htm
http://www.middleatlantic.com/pdf/PowerPaper.pdf
 

vinylphilemag

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not exactly. to my knowledge the Tourus does not come as a wall panel system, but it might.

Yep, the Torus is now available as a wall panel, although the model most comparable (the WM 100 BAL) to your 10WQ has provision for only 5 circuits rather than 10. Here's a link to Torus' wall product info page: http://www.toruspower.com/products/north-american-custom-install-rm-series-balanced-wall-mount/

No affiliation, just something I found while doing my research.
 

Bill Hart

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May 11, 2012
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Iostinato: I have the E=Q and am in Austin, but it has not been installed yet, in fact, I haven't yet found a property to buy!
I'd be interested in comparing notes, though, including who you are using for construction, electrical contractor, etc. And if you PM me, you can fill me in on where you are. We are presently renting in Clarksville, which I love, but the houses and lots are small, with few options to build a dedicated building due to zoning restrictions. (There are a few big mansions, but those are tres cher, and I'm trying to downscale at this point). Thus, we've been looking in other neighborhoods proximate to downtown, including Judge's Hill, Old Enfield, etc.
Sorry I can't compare the merits of the two company's products.
I'm less concerned about lightning strikes (for which you can do little) and more concerned about the quality of the power feeding by system. Surge protection is a bonus, for the more 'normal' irregularities on the line. One of the best stories about lightning is the set up of the Trinity test, that first A-bomb test in the desert. The thing looked like a giant hairy ball with wires coming out of it, and sat atop a tower. They sent a guy up to 'mind' it while an electrical storm passed through, knowing that the trigger mechanism was susceptible to false discharge~ can you imagine? I think he took photos of the view from the 'windows' in the tower while he waited out the storm. By comparision, audio is almost childs-play. :)
 

arnies

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May 10, 2010
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Iostinato: I have the E=Q and am in Austin, but it has not been installed yet, in fact, I haven't yet found a property to buy!
I'd be interested in comparing notes, though, including who you are using for construction, electrical contractor, etc. And if you PM me, you can fill me in on where you are. We are presently renting in Clarksville, which I love, but the houses and lots are small, with few options to build a dedicated building due to zoning restrictions. (There are a few big mansions, but those are tres cher, and I'm trying to downscale at this point). Thus, we've been looking in other neighborhoods proximate to downtown, including Judge's Hill, Old Enfield, etc.
Sorry I can't compare the merits of the two company's products.
I'm less concerned about lightning strikes (for which you can do little) and more concerned about the quality of the power feeding by system. Surge protection is a bonus, for the more 'normal' irregularities on the line. One of the best stories about lightning is the set up of the Trinity test, that first A-bomb test in the desert. The thing looked like a giant hairy ball with wires coming out of it, and sat atop a tower. They sent a guy up to 'mind' it while an electrical storm passed through, knowing that the trigger mechanism was susceptible to false discharge~ can you imagine? I think he took photos of the view from the 'windows' in the tower while he waited out the storm. By comparision, audio is almost childs-play. :)

Hi Iostinato,

I also live in Austin and built a good sized dedicated room about 4 years ago. I went with a 10KVA Isolation transformer that feeds 12 dedicated 20 amp outlets, dedicated breaker box with bolt in breakers, solid core 10 gauge copper wiring which is manually twisted on 1" centers run through flexible steel conduit, isolated ground outlets, etc. The transformer that I used has some special options that are specific to audio applications. The transformer is not wall mountable but can be located either outdoors (with heavy duty case) or indoors (perhaps in a garage). They range in size from 5KVA - 25KVA. It has worked perfectly for the past 4 years - zero issues. A few of my audio friends have since gone with the same solution and all achieved the same results. Feel free to PM me is you would like to discuss further.

Arnie
 
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