By all means, bring it on and let's hear what other people think based on their experience.
I'd prefer they left their thinking out of it and just reported what they heard.
By all means, bring it on and let's hear what other people think based on their experience.
Well I do agree there Bruce. In fact I took the lid off one of my SACD players (Pioneer) and found its using a PCM DAC from BB.
You'd have to convince me on a technical basis what constitutes a 'decent' DAC, pretty hard I reckon...
That's easy.... Playback Designs MPD-5 or MSB Diamond........
See there - you don't listen. I distinctly said 'technical basis' did I not?
. I haven't found the stories convincing from either Playback Designs or MSB.
Yeah I want a good story. Technical stories work for me. Pretty much like anyone else I need to be convinced of something before I'll pull the trigger on getting hold of it. I haven't found the stories convincing from either Playback Designs or MSB.
I'd prefer they left their thinking out of it and just reported what they heard.
Is this a nonsensical statement?
How can you report on something without thinking about what you are going to say first??
If someone's only reference to what beef tasted like was eating at McDonalds, would you think it was a little odd if they were commenting on how McDonalds beef should taste better than a NY Strip served at a fine steakhouse and they wanted to argue with you over which tasted better?
Wouldn't you just scratch your head and wonder how someone who only eats at McDonalds could possibly compare that experience with eating a really good NY Strip steak at a great steakhouse?
I'm only being slightly facetious here because it would be far more valuable to me to hear from people who regularly listen to PCM and DSD and have them tell me what they hear vice people who exclusively listen to only one format and assume what the other sounds like.
That is really not possible. While I agree that hearing in English, thinking in English and responding in English is more spontaneous than taking a detour through translating to Chinese, thinking in Chinese and translating to English, there is, except for expletives, always a cognitive stage between hearing and speaking. And I am not considering the transduction processes at either end.Simply by doing just that - describing something does not require thinking about what you're describing. Describe it spontaneously, in an un-premeditated manner. Thinking about something first leads to interpretation of the phenomenon, hence I prefer the raw description. I was training students in this excercise only a week or so ago, they understood what I meant and they weren't native English speakers. They understood (they were Chinese native speakers) that thinking about what to say in Chinese first then translating in their minds was inferior to coming up with English directly. One step in that direction I suggest to my students is thinking in English rather than thinking in Chinese. The aim though is spontaneous speech without premeditation.
Not to me, no. Does it become nonsensical because you choose not to make sense of it?
Simply by doing just that - describing something does not require thinking about what you're describing. Describe it spontaneously, in an un-premeditated manner.
Thinking about something first leads to interpretation of the phenomenon, hence I prefer the raw description. I was training students in this excercise only a week or so ago, they understood what I meant and they weren't native English speakers. They understood (they were Chinese native speakers) that thinking about what to say in Chinese first then translating in their minds was inferior to coming up with English directly. One step in that direction I suggest to my students is thinking in English rather than thinking in Chinese. The aim though is spontaneous speech without premeditation.
So its now becoming clear why you introduced the analogy. You seem to be saying that a person needs regular Happy Meals at McDonalds in order to appreciate the NY Strip steak. I disagree, I am perfectly content with my (very long ago) memory of a Big Mac to be sure that the NY steak tastes better.
That is really not possible.
While I agree that hearing in English, thinking in English and responding in English is more spontaneous than taking a detour through translating to Chinese, thinking in Chinese and translating to English, there is, except for expletives, always a cognitive stage between hearing and speaking.
I think the reasonable aim is more spontaneous speech with less premeditation.
No, it becomes nonsensical when the statement makes no sense.
Really?? Just start blabbering without thinking about what you want to say and describe?
If my only memory of digital was what it sounded like when it was first introduced in the 1980s, my thoughts about how digital sounds now wouldn't be valid.
That is really not possible. While I agree that hearing in English, thinking in English and responding in English is more spontaneous than taking a detour through translating to Chinese, thinking in Chinese and translating to English, there is, except for expletives, always a cognitive stage between hearing and speaking. And I am not considering the transduction processes at either end.
I think the reasonable aim is more spontaneous speech with less premeditation.
opus111 said:The aim though is spontaneous speech without premeditation.
That is really not possible. While I agree that hearing in English, thinking in English and responding in English is more spontaneous than taking a detour through translating to Chinese, thinking in Chinese and translating to English, there is, except for expletives, always a cognitive stage between hearing and speaking. And I am not considering the transduction processes at either end.
I think the reasonable aim is more spontaneous speech with less premeditation.
opus111 said:I definitely go along with that. But then I'd always be encouraging less and less premeditation - the aim is zero but it takes a fair amount (probably years or perhaps Gladwell's 10k hours) of training to get there.
1.Know how the recording was done.
2.Know what kind of DAC you are listening to.
3.Hear the same live performance captured on a DSD DAC (DSD128) and Multi-Bit DAC(24/352.8) at the same time.
4.Play both files back: PCM file on multi-bit DAC, DSD file on SDM DAC in the same system.
5.Decide which one is closer to the performance.
I haven't done that. I am not aware of anyone else here having done that.
DSD is not better than PCM. If you have a DSD DAC like the Playback Designs or a heavy over sampling dac, then I can see how you would conclude that DSD is better.
I could say that native PCM recordings like Keith Johnson's Hrx recordings are far superior to any native DSD I've heard on a Playback Designs MPD-5, but that observation would be just as meaningless as a 1-bit DAC fan extolling the superiority of DSD.
The very decision to describe and the selection/order of the description require cognitive processing. You may be able to attend to the stimulus pattern (chair) without premeditation but choosing to act in response requires it. Responding with a shreik to the sudden appearance of a snake requires the recognition of the object as a snake (infratemporal cortex) and then the association of that awareness with fear (amygdala) may be so rapid as to precede any "premeditated" response.I don't think you can always classify the congnitive stage between hearing (or any external stimulation of the sensory system) and speaking as "premeditation". If I see a chair, I can spontaneously say chair without premeditation. In this case, the congnitive process and translation going on in my brain is subconscious and hence not "premeditation" (which is a conscious mental process). ......................................................................................
"Zero" premeditation in verbal expression is complete illusive. Describing simple single objects or repetiive events can be done without premeditation, but describing complex events will always require a conscious thought process (i.e. premeditation).
Steve Williams Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator | Ron Resnick Site Co-Owner | Administrator | Julian (The Fixer) Website Build | Marketing Managersing |