Allnic Audio H5000 phono stage

Lotus

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Jun 22, 2013
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Guys, the headamp is the pre-existing HA3000. There is no new head amp specific to the H5000.

The HA3000 is a no brainer for me with both the H3000 and H5000. Yes, a little bit more noise and you lose a tiny smidge of warmth but the immediacy, presence and realism of the music takes a fairly big leap along with solid state precision/speed just as cjfrbw states. It makes everything sound pressurised and projects it into the room like nothing else i've heard, almost as if its emenating from some other infinite universe somewhere. Sounds cheesy perhaps but its a fairly striking upgrade IME.

The H5000 uses Marconi HL2 in the stage 1 driver and then x4 specially commisioned Kron DHT which replace the original ancient telefunkens used in the prototype.
 

hvbias

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Jun 22, 2012
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Lotus, in the measurements my friend has done on an his all tube (aka tube input gain stage) LCR phono-stage the very slight increase in noise is still less than that of any high end MC cartridges in the 0.2-0.4 mv range that were measured. So your results that the HA3000 headamp is sonically superior (or at least your preference) would match his. In the listening I've done I too prefer active gain stages for low output cartridges. The best SUT I've tried being the Bent Audio TX-103 silver.
 

XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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If the HA3000 headamp is superior, why would Allnic not have it standard on the 30k H5000?
Makes no sense to me
 

hvbias

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Jun 22, 2012
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If the HA3000 headamp is superior, why would Allnic not have it standard on the 30k H5000?
Makes no sense to me

Perhaps a question best left to Mr Park. I can only speculate that some tube guys would not want solid state gain stages in any of their gear. A point I remember Aesthetix being particularly proud about with their top of the line IO. Also see my first post in this thread, I think the H3000 is one of the best phono-stages I've heard. I'm not putting it or any Allnic gear down. Just corroborating Lotus' experience with regard to an active gain stage.
 

cjfrbw

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Apr 20, 2010
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I don't think it is a strict question of superiority, just different implementations with preferences intervening as well.

High quality input transformers can have their own charm factor along with smoothness and quietness. They are also a more traditional solution for low output cartridges for some antiquarians.

The head amp will give the more incisive albeit added baseline noise presentation. The head amp will allow whatever inherent sonic athleticism the cartridge itself is capable of with less impediment. Vinyl has noise anyway, a dollop more isn't a problem for me.

Nuvistors are tubes, not solid state, albeit small metal can tubes. They were the last effort of the tube world to miniaturize in the face of solid state.
 

Lotus

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2013
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www.lotushifi.co.uk
I don't think it is a strict question of superiority, just different implementations with preferences intervening as well.

High quality input transformers can have their own charm factor along with smoothness and quietness. They are also a more traditional solution for low output cartridges for some antiquarians.

The head amp will give the more incisive albeit added baseline noise presentation. The head amp will allow whatever inherent sonic athleticism the cartridge itself is capable of with less impediment. Vinyl has noise anyway, a dollop more isn't a problem for me.

Nuvistors are tubes, not solid state, albeit small metal can tubes. They were the last effort of the tube world to miniaturize in the face of solid state.





^this


Some people prefer the phono SUTs.

That said, there is perhaps a case for combining 4 chassis just as you say. I have had one customer who loved what the HA3000 did to his H3000 but just could not bring himself to increase his box count by an additional +2.
 

Bill Hart

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May 11, 2012
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Guys, the headamp is the pre-existing HA3000. There is no new head amp specific to the H5000.

The HA3000 is a no brainer for me with both the H3000 and H5000. Yes, a little bit more noise and you lose a tiny smidge of warmth but the immediacy, presence and realism of the music takes a fairly big leap along with solid state precision/speed just as cjfrbw states. It makes everything sound pressurised and projects it into the room like nothing else i've heard, almost as if its emenating from some other infinite universe somewhere. Sounds cheesy perhaps but its a fairly striking upgrade IME.

The H5000 uses Marconi HL2 in the stage 1 driver and then x4 specially commisioned Kron DHT which replace the original ancient telefunkens used in the prototype.
Lotus, hey, I know we've talked cars in the past.
Have you had an opportunity to roll rectifiers in the H5000 yet? I know Albert was talking about it, and those of us with the H3000 have realized benefits in doing so.
Cheers,
 

Bill Hart

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May 11, 2012
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I'm confident that the H5000 will handle low output MC's with aplomb.
My impression, borne out by Carl's comments on the sound of the nuvistor, are that it is a sonic choice, not a necessity. Some people complained that the H3000 sounded a little soft; I would assume, based on Carl's comments (as well as others- there is at least one review out there by Marshall Nack) that the head unit adds a level of clarity and a little more 'bite' to the sound of it. Not sure, with my horns, that's where I'd be wanting to go, but I get it (if my assumptions are correct).
 

Lotus

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Jun 22, 2013
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www.lotushifi.co.uk
Lotus, hey, I know we've talked cars in the past.
Have you had an opportunity to roll rectifiers in the H5000 yet? I know Albert was talking about it, and those of us with the H3000 have realized benefits in doing so.
Cheers,


Hiya Whart, no sorry, early days yet.
 

Joao@altheamusica

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Sep 20, 2010
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Hi

I just like to know about the microphony of the H5000. DHTs, or big tubes, tend to be microphonic and this could be a problem with DHT using in Line Stages and, especially, in Phono Stages. Any commenst / experiences to share?

BTW, to transistors and transformers... I have a solid state phono (functional model) with interstage coupling of each stage. Sounds very different compared to the sound of transistor, very musical and really a comparison to tube designs.

Joao
Althea Musica
www.altheamusica.com
 

Lotus

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2013
46
21
315
www.lotushifi.co.uk
Hi

I just like to know about the microphony of the H5000. DHTs, or big tubes, tend to be microphonic and this could be a problem with DHT using in Line Stages and, especially, in Phono Stages. Any commenst / experiences to share?


Joao
Althea Musica
www.altheamusica.com


Albert Porters comment over on Agon might be useful here. I'm sure he'll be ok with me quoting it.



"The 5000 seems to be as quiet as the H3000 which is excellent in that regard. Both are quieter than my (previous) Aesthetix even with super select NOS tube throughout.

I put the 5000 though my own personal torture test. If I'm going to own something I don't want to overlook any issues or problems. The torture test is rapping on the two chassis with a wood dowel rod and see if the tubes crackle or microphonic. Answer is no, they seem immune."
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
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New York City
Hi

I just like to know about the microphony of the H5000. DHTs, or big tubes, tend to be microphonic and this could be a problem with DHT using in Line Stages and, especially, in Phono Stages. Any commenst / experiences to share?

BTW, to transistors and transformers... I have a solid state phono (functional model) with interstage coupling of each stage. Sounds very different compared to the sound of transistor, very musical and really a comparison to tube designs.

Joao
Althea Musica
www.altheamusica.com

Although this is an Allnic thread, doesn't Israel Bloom of Coincident also have a DHT line/phono? I don't remember any issues with noise/microphonics with his products.
 

cjfrbw

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Apr 20, 2010
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I would be interested in a designer using VFET/SIT transistors in a head amp and/or input trannie/LCR corrector configuration. That would also be something that would be worth a listen.

Couple that with a DHT preamp, I think it might very well bridge the gap between solid state/tube for the low output phono input.
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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Hi

I just like to know about the microphony of the H5000. DHTs, or big tubes, tend to be microphonic and this could be a problem with DHT using in Line Stages and, especially, in Phono Stages. (...)

Never heard about this feature of direct heated triodes. Do you know why? I would expect the heated filaments to be less prone to vibrations than cathode plates.
 

Bill Hart

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May 11, 2012
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I would be interested in a designer using VFET/SIT transistors in a head amp and/or input trannie/LCR corrector configuration. That would also be something that would be worth a listen.

Couple that with a DHT preamp, I think it might very well bridge the gap between solid state/tube for the low output phono input.
That's basically what you are running, right?
 

Bill Hart

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2012
2,683
174
1,150
Hi

I just like to know about the microphony of the H5000. DHTs, or big tubes, tend to be microphonic and this could be a problem with DHT using in Line Stages and, especially, in Phono Stages. Any commenst / experiences to share?

BTW, to transistors and transformers... I have a solid state phono (functional model) with interstage coupling of each stage. Sounds very different compared to the sound of transistor, very musical and really a comparison to tube designs.

Joao
Althea Musica
www.altheamusica.com
FWIW, i have the H3000 (like a number of folks here) and as it broke in, I started to experience some microphonics. Simple tube swap solved the problem. I use extremely efficient speakers (~104db) so you hear any gremlins. Dunno what the DHT adds to the equation in terms of potential microphonics, assume it has the same gel sockets that the 3000 uses.
 

cjfrbw

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Apr 20, 2010
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Pleasanton, CA
That's basically what you are running, right?

What I mean is to use the VFET's for the phono amplification phases, not the tubes i.e. a solid state LCR phono unit. I believe athenamusica is using the Da Vinci LCR phono unit, which dropped the tubes and went solid state for the amplification phases, but I don't think it uses SITs or VFETs.

This is basically a thought exercise for me, since I have become re-acquainted with the VFETs recently. I am thinking of trying to rig a Sony TA4650 as a head amp just for fun as an experiment (will probably fail).

My Allnic L5000 DHT preamp definitely has microphonics when you tap the chassis, but I cannot determine that it has any effect on playback, even when playing very loud. The tube sockets are gel absorbers, and I keep it on Aurios islolation feet, but if I hit it or brush it with no music, it definitely pings.

I think it is one of those audiophile OC disorder things, don't use DHT if you are not prepared for some side effects in order to obtain the sonic advantages i.e. the usual tradeoff dilemma in audiophilia. I think the advantages are more than worthwhile because there is no alternative that will do the same thing sonically, at least for me in my system, others' mileage will vary according to taste and demand.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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Never heard about this feature of direct heated triodes. Do you know why? I would expect the heated filaments to be less prone to vibrations than cathode plates.

i had the Found Music 2A3 SET monoblocks back a couple of years ago. they had direct heated triodes and even though my system only used speakers that were '93db' efficient, my system was quiet enough that i could hear that the noise floor of the amp was higher than some other amps i'd heard. even so the detail and 'see into' aspect of the amp was un-rivaled.

i asked the designer about the noise and he said it was a trade-off on the circuit, overall the DHT lowered the noise floor, but that they also added some noise. overall; if they had been dynamic enough for my room and speakers i would have kept them as the noise did not intrude on the musical message....but it was 'there' to hear.
 

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