Schnerzinger cables - any experience?

microstrip said:

Frantz,

Why would you spend 40K on a power system? Devices should be made to run with normal mains and a good ground connection. What is the miraculous property of 40K mains? Did you forget the smile?

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microstrip

it is one of those weird things I find myself believing in: Power Quality. You are right that it doesn't have to cost $40K but it may end up costing a bit. For starters, my ultimate system would run on 220~240, not 120, second I would use large gauge wires, this I would use a 4-wire distribution. Your basic 3-wire plus some kind of a "drain" wire. In EMT conduits, grounded, etc. The least noisy Power distribution possible and of course a double conversion high power UPS (AC to DC then DC to AC telco grade) at least 10 KVA. I experienced only the Double conversion in my former system.
Again, this wouldn't be cheap but hardly 40 K.

microstrip said:

One additional problem I face with the Schnerzinger cables is the lack of an existing open showroom - a place where you could listen to a demo, go home, think again and decide if you want a home test.

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First of all, I can't comment as to the efficacy of the Schnerzinger solution, it could well be worth the money. However, I completely agree with prior comments expressing concern regarding a sales model which requires the presence of a company principle to conduct an in-house demo. I presume the customer must pay the cost of the in-house demo including transportation, etc. creating a sunk cost and presumably a significant bias toward purchase. I see this as subtly but significantly different from paying shipping costs required to demo equipment in my system at my convenience.

FrantzM said:

microstrip

it is one of those weird things I find myself believing in: Power Quality. You are right that it doesn't have to cost $40K but it may end up costing a bit. For starters, my ultimate system would run on 220~240, not 120, second I would use large gauge wires, this I would use a 4-wire distribution. Your basic 3-wire plus some kind of a "drain" wire. In EMT conduits, grounded, etc. The least noisy Power distribution possible and of course a double conversion high power UPS (AC to DC then DC to AC telco grade) at least 10 KVA. I experienced only the Double conversion in my former system.
Again, this wouldn't be cheap but hardly 40 K.

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And I was thinking I was a subjective person - I even run my system on 233V! But now I am speechless, this time you won!
Are you aware that equipment must be modified to properly use the 4 wire system?

We can take it to another thread.
No need for equipment modification. The distribution uses 4-wire but only three are "connected/wired" to the outlets. The 4th run alongside the main wires but only provide a drain wire and allow a better ground path. I forgot the details but I know it came from a IEEE recommendation for Computer Systems around the early 90's. I used it in a Telecom Business a few years back.

Going back to the Schenezinger cable. Nothing I have yet read about this particular brand as explanations will have me change my current position.

I'm not skeptical about thier cables. It sounds like they are really onto something unique with alot of potential. I wish I could hear their cables, but I am in the US. Not that I am looking for a new set of cables. Their approach seems very worthy of an open mind.

Proper attention to power has resulted in the largest and most compelling transformation of my system into an engaging musical system. I am off the merry-go-round as a result. Now, I just buy music.

HJB said:

To be prepared for a home Setup we need a complete set of SCHNERZINGER demo equipment, this means: one power distribution center (called Power Innovator); several power cords and interconnects of the model lines 3.000, 5.000 and 8.000; different sets of speaker cables, digital cables and a pair of cleaners (one digital, one analogue). Cleaners are active components, which are connected with one piece of electronic (for example a CD-Player). The function is, to reduce the electrical interference fields of the electronics.
In total, the demo equipment includes about 40 cables and accessories, distributed on seven crates, with more than 250 pounds weight.

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Could you elaborate on the evaluation process a little bit more ? I would like to understand, how it is possible to demo 40 cables and accessories in 6h time ? Time needed for all those cable swaps alone would take a better part of those 6h.

How much time is there efectively left for listening between various setup changes ?

Sorry, i do not speak english. Sorry for the write error. Google helps me to translate! I follow attentively the discussion about the Schnerzinger Cable. As i heard of the Company Schnerzinger, i tested just cable from the Stealth Audio Dream series and Indra. Cost complete for my music system about 35.000 Euro. The Stealth Cable should my audience au24e cable replace. Before the audience cable, i had Shunyata Research and some other. I tested the Stealth cable against Schnerzinger Cable. Always completely wired the same manufacturer. Already the X 3000 Schnerzinger Cable series played for my clearly better than the Stealth Cable, which I wanted to buy. My currently music system consisting of "CAT" Convergent Audio Technology "The Statement" Mono Endverstärker, Audio Aero La Source, Aurender S10, Ripnas solid v2 and speaker Consensus conspiracy, plays with the Schnerzinger Cables and Claener for the La Source and Aurender in a new dimension. I did not know, that my music system by these cable so much better music plays. I can Tubedoctor experience fully confirm. It has the sound experience fantastic written. I was not forced the Schnerzinger cable to buy. I have my own ears believed what i hear. I have after some time from the X3000 on X8000 series upgraded. Again a significant increase. I am aware, the ideal cable there for me not. It is for me very important such as the cable make music, the technology is not important to me. The result counts for me. The Schnerzinger Cable are the first, the me on the emotional plane satisfy. Who the occasion gets, should the Schnerzinger Cable and Cleaner necessarily listen and then judging. Everything else is for me as coffee grounds read and pure speculation.
best musical salute.

treitz3 said:

Hello, CATfriend and welcome to the What's Best Forum. What would you describe the most noticeable sonic attribute with the Schnerzinger cables installed in your system?

Tom

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Hi Tom,
many thanks for the welcome greeting. I find it very difficult the sound characteristics to describe. I am fascinated the naturalness of the music. The sound description of Tubedoctor from 2013.01.12, 05.27 Uhr I would repeat. I can not other complement.

I live in Brasil, my system is composed of Tidal piano diacera and audiopax maggiore m100 amplifier ( SET with 100 watts classe A1) and preamplifier audiopax model 5SE, before this system I used fo years merlinvsm mxe speakers with tubes, but all cables were copper, merlins do not function well with silver cable,but when I bought tidal piano diacera I saw that a lot of woners use it with silver cables like argento( very expensive) , I began to try some cables and try to find some used cables at audiomarket-de, when I find schnerzinger site, the used cable I saw was one of scond hand cable of Scnerzinger site( it was a fadel art secondhand). In December of last year I went with my family to visit my son that is studiyng in Germany, so I decided to visit Dirck at Scnerzinger's factory, I traveled to Dortmund, 3 hours by train from Brawuschweig, I was attended by Dick, a man 40 years, very simpatico, who explained the whole process although I do not understand a lot of electronic,we listen some music in Dick's system: Egglestonwork savoy + cello preamplifier+ pass labs amps monos, me maybe the room was about 40 square meters, all with schernizinger cables, and I saw and listened the demonstration of cleaner, my son and I noticed a clear difference when connecting the RCA from the cleaner to the cdplayer, despite the sound being good, it takes a kind of smoke that until that moment I had not noticed, luckily I bought a cable equivalent to 8000 series or up, it matched perfectly with Tidal speakers and audiopax amplification, tested against a lot of cables ( KS, argento flow, less loss, sterevox, ....), the only one that come near was synergistic research apex speaker cable, and it seems that schnerzinger is more transparent and has more bass control, it is worth saying that in this test all interconters were synergistc rsearch apex. Today I want to buy one cleaner for my cdplyer. According to Dick the ideal is that the whole system must use schnerzinger cable to listen all pontecial, maybe, but it is expensive, just now I am thinking to try a copper cable in the chain, like Jorma origo, it seems to me that my system is very good but most rich in acute nuances, sometimes I feel that a little lack of naturalness in voices, for my intuition is possible that a interconecter with cooper than silver makes a difference.

Anyone finds it weird, that they cannot lend the cable to the customer, since 'he will not be able to demonstrate it properly', not even for a day and not even after it was installed by their dealer, and yet they have no problems in selling a cable to the customer in Brasil, to system they have not even seen ?

And how came, that someone finds this forum, sets up an account, only to make a single post about the S. cables ?

Elberoth said:

Anyone finds it weird, that they cannot lend the cable to the customer, since 'he will not be able to demonstrate it properly', not even for a day and not even after it was installed by their dealer, and yet they have no problems in selling a cable to the customer in Brasil, to system they have not even seen ?

And how came, that someone finds this forum, sets up an account, only to make a single post about the S. cables ?

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Excuse me, but do not understand why this assertion of suspicion about what I said, I'm actually participating in this forum only since yesterday, just when he was looking for DACs and cables on the Internet, and for this reason I came to this forum, I saw that someone asked on this cable I use now, and I think forums are made ??to exchange experiences, just only one post but it is sincere, this cable really is an excellent cable, but I do not think that is great for every setup I would never use it with my merlin VSM MXe, I bought because I was looking for silver cables, so I decided to went to Dortmunt , because I knew there were at least 2 tidal owners who use schernezinger cables, and bought without testing of course the same way I bought several cables in the past, and after talking about my own setup , Dick thought the interconecter cable he had at the time was not right for me, so just bought the speaker cable, I did not seen any conduct that discredit the comerce of schnerzinger factory, and I have have no comercial connection or other motivation, here's a picture of my system.

Hi

Welcome to the WBF. We are usually nicer but the coincidence was a little stratling. The premises of your cables are a little strange too. They make you hapy and that is all that count. We (I) will challenge your posts a t times but do please stay around. This is IMO one of the best Audio (and other things you will notice: We discuss from food to sports, cars , watches, cuisine, wines and even blenders and other domsetic appliances!! ) > it is a community of enthusiasts and we defend our opinions sometimes strongly but always with (we hope politeness and courtesy).
I am aHUGE fan of Brazilian music although I don't understand a word of Portuguese, It speaks to me in a way few music from other countries do. Range is as large as your Music; From Luis Bonfa to Adriano Calcanhoto, Tom Jobim, Jorge Aragao or Pepeu Gomes ...

Regardless, the cables you use their sales method an rationale of superiority strike me as unusual and I remain skeptical. What speakers are you using?

Well, I live in the most northeast Brazilian city, we are no more than 10 audiophiles, and we do not have any hi end dealers in our city we live more than 3000 kms from Rio de Janeiro or SP, so sometimes we buy some equipments based in another experiences, now I have Tidal piano diacera. I know the method of proving that his cables are superior and ofering one test A x B( your cables) is unusual.

georgemg - I would be far less sceptical if most of the 'reviews' of schnerzinger cables I have read come from users that commited more than one or two posts and who disappeared afterwards.

AudiogoN user Bluenotejazz: 2 posts, 1 review (of schnerzinger cable):
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr_memb.pl?0&1&memb&zzBluenotejazz

AudiogoN user Sashafan: 3 posts, 2 reviews (both about schnerzinger products !):
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr_memb.pl?0&1&memb&zzSashafan

AudiogoN user Diesaeule: 1 post:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr_memb.pl?0&1&memb&zzDiesaeule

It just looks like someone trying to inflate a marketing baloon using forums as a marketing tool.

BTW - I have been several times to Jericoacoara (this is also up north, 400km north of Fortaleza) - they have a great windsurfing spot there.

Elberoth

I live in Fortaleza city, and I went only one time do Jericocoara 15 years ago. I have a patient( I am physician) that have one hotel especialized in windsurf in Jeri, His name is Fabio Nobre.

Never met the guy (al least do not recognise the name) although right now Jeri is a quite a big resort, with over 70 hotels and pousadas.

A true paradise on earth for wind surfers and kite surfers alike !

Elberoth,
i reported myself as an avid listener and very satisfied by the Schnerzinger cables and 2 Claenern to confirm the positive experience of other Schnerzinger customers. Their opinions are all, in my opinion rightly, written very exuberant and euphoric. Therefore, they are often portrayed only as a bluff and marketing trick of the company Schnerzinger. I personally believe only times everything before I tried it myself and heard. Me to rely on others opinions, others talk bad without it possibly ever experienced or tasted, is simple, but not my way I'm still, tolerant despite or because of my advanced age (over 60 years) and trainable. For me the main point of any good knowledge gains. That the knowledge gained only expresses the current state of knowledge is already clear to me. Also results not convince me, they serve the radical technicians rather than manslaughter argument, as measured must be true. No one could tell me until today a device which measures sound quality and my emotions. For me, the result justifies the means, and the only reality I can confirm the theory. Also plays the financial framework and the appropriate audio equipment that make the difference in sound ever heard, for me a role. I would encourage any serious Hi-Fi-interested, get in touch with the Schnerzinger products apart. Only then he should express his own opinion about the Schnerzinger products. Many roads lead me to the good. The trails are there - I must go.
best Regards
CATfriend