Transparent Cables = lower volume

MadFloyd

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I'm auditioning Transparent Ref XL cables at the moment (I normally use Purist Audio Design).

After fully breaking in the Transparent cables, I switched back to my PADs to compare. I was quite surprised at the difference in volume; the PADs were much louder.

So I can't help but wonder what's in those network boxes that is reducing the signal level. I thought they just handled impedance matching.

Anyone know?
 

Andre Marc

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I'm auditioning Transparent Ref XL cables at the moment (I normally use Purist Audio Design).

After fully breaking in the Transparent cables, I switched back to my PADs to compare. I was quite surprised at the difference in volume; the PADs were much louder.

So I can't help but wonder what's in those network boxes that is reducing the signal level. I thought they just handled impedance matching.

Anyone know?

Transparent cable are still the best I have heard for high level signals (Preamp to Power amp, Speaker).

From what I understand, the network boxes simply and intentially reduce bandwidth.
 

microstrip

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There was a photo circulating the net several years ago showing an opened Transparent Cable network box and IIRC showed a Zobel Network

You can easily find it using google. However it is a photo from a very old cable and does not reflect the current situation. IMHO, at that time only the top Transparent cables were worth its price, the cheaper ranges were not competitive in the market. However the situation changed a lot in the last decade.
 

DonH50

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Impedance matching networks can most certainly be very lossy if resistors are involved, and even with just LC (depends on the configuration). Have to see the design (schematic) and I imagine they don't publish that...
 

treitz3

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...that would be a "no", Don. I will say this. If it's lossy, it's the most revealing, unrestricted and beautiful sounding lossy I have ever heard and I'm only half way up the chain at the Reference.

Tom
 

Andre Marc

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...that would be a "no", Don. I will say this. If it's lossy, it's the most revealing, unrestricted and beautiful sounding lossy I have ever heard and I'm only half way up the chain at the Reference.

Tom

Agree totally. The Transparent cables for me allow more musical information to flow than at least 8 or 10 other brands I have done direct comparison with.
 

asiufy

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Same here. Big fan of their MM2 powercords.


alexandre
 

MylesBAstor

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Same here. Big fan of their MM2 powercords.


alexandre

I use the Ref XL MM2 IC and speaker cables but they have their "coloration" too (not unlike any cable). The big three that I use are Transparent, MIT, Kubala-Sosna and shortly to be added to that list, Cello Strings.
 

microstrip

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I use the Ref XL MM2 IC and speaker cables but they have their "coloration" too (not unlike any cable). The big three that I use are Transparent, MIT, Kubala-Sosna and shortly to be added to that list, Cello Strings.

Cello Strings? Are you referring to that old cream cable made with colored enamel insulated copper litz wire? At some time I had four runs of 30 feet long balanced cables connected to the Cello Audio Palette. Soldering the connectors to this cable was painful, unless you had the proper tools and technique. I still use one remaining 12 feet pair when I need long RCA cables.
 

microstrip

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Impedance matching networks can most certainly be very lossy if resistors are involved, and even with just LC (depends on the configuration). Have to see the design (schematic) and I imagine they don't publish that...

Don,

Martin Colloms has measured a Transparent Reference interconnect cable - I think it was published in HifiNews. There was no measurable loss in the audio band, and the -3dB cutoff was around 200 kHz.
 

DonH50

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...that would be a "no", Don. I will say this. If it's lossy, it's the most revealing, unrestricted and beautiful sounding lossy I have ever heard and I'm only half way up the chain at the Reference.

Tom

Yeah, I figured. :)

"Lossy" does not mean "bad". Lossy networks can help eliminate noise or provide other sonic benefits by filtering, reduce reflections in digital cables, etc.
 

DonH50

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Don,

Martin Colloms has measured a Transparent Reference interconnect cable - I think it was published in HifiNews. There was no measurable loss in the audio band, and the -3dB cutoff was around 200 kHz.

I suppose if it's a passive network any loss may depend upon the driving and loading impedances. Etc. In any event, in my mind loss alone is not a factor unless it causes or solves some other issue. That is, it can be a plus, minus, or mix of both.
 

Bill Hart

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Question: if the key to these kinds of cables is what's in the box, to match impedance or to change various properties (capacitance, inductance?, resistance?), why couldn't they make them with variable settings, so once you buy them, they could be adjusted, either for the existing system, or for future ones, based on settings supplied by the manufacturer? Or is adding the necessarily ingredients too costly or too noisy? (I'm thinking here about phono stages that allow easy changes to loading without having to solder, etc.).
Just curious, and maybe it's a pointless question.
 

MadFloyd

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Question: if the key to these kinds of cables is what's in the box, to match impedance or to change various properties (capacitance, inductance?, resistance?), why couldn't they make them with variable settings, so once you buy them, they could be adjusted, either for the existing system, or for future ones, based on settings supplied by the manufacturer? Or is adding the necessarily ingredients too costly or too noisy? (I'm thinking here about phono stages that allow easy changes to loading without having to solder, etc.).
Just curious, and maybe it's a pointless question.

The MIT cables have an impedance adjustment feature presumably for this very reason (hi/mid/low). That's the thing that willies me out about Transparent - if you change components you need to ship the cables back for an adjustment. Don't know if they do this for used cables; if not it would seriously impact its value.
 

Bill Hart

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The MIT cables have an impedance adjustment feature presumably for this very reason (hi/mid/low). That's the thing that willies me out about Transparent - if you change components you need to ship the cables back for an adjustment. Don't know if they do this for used cables; if not it would seriously impact its value.
That's where I'm unclear~ there are some user accessible adjustments? But more profound adjustment requires sending them back to mfr? I knew about the latter, that's more of what i was addressing....
 

MylesBAstor

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Cello Strings? Are you referring to that old cream cable made with colored enamel insulated copper litz wire? At some time I had four runs of 30 feet long balanced cables connected to the Cello Audio Palette. Soldering the connectors to this cable was painful, unless you had the proper tools and technique. I still use one remaining 12 feet pair when I need long RCA cables.

What's old is new again :) I'm not sure if anything has been changed (one thing is that didn't have to solder anything!) in the cables. I haven't inquired about details as I prefer to listen and not let design cloud my impressions. I do know however, that I want to try these cables with my ART amplifier when I'm finished reviewing the Cello Encore amplifier. There are some things that this amp/cable combo do that are extraordinary--and R2R really brings out the combo.
 

MylesBAstor

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That's where I'm unclear~ there are some user accessible adjustments? But more profound adjustment requires sending them back to mfr? I knew about the latter, that's more of what i was addressing....

Only user accessible adjustments with the MIT. Transparent must be retuned for each component. The good news is that the turnaround is quick. I'm sure at worst Transparent would charge a fee to second owners for retuning. But they may not. A call to them will certainly answer the question.

Which brings me to the question whether these cables you borrowed are tuned for your electronics/speakers? If not, that might be the cause. It's actually very interesting how much of a difference that the tuning makes in the sound.
 

mep

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What's old is new again :) I'm not sure if anything has been changed (one thing is that didn't have to solder anything!) in the cables. I haven't inquired about details as I prefer to listen and not let design cloud my impressions. I do know however, that I want to try these cables with my ART amplifier when I'm finished reviewing the Cello Encore amplifier. There are some things that this amp/cable combo do that are extraordinary--and R2R really brings out the combo.

And I suspect that a large part of that magic is the Cello amps and I think you will dearly miss them when they are gone.
 

MylesBAstor

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And I suspect that a large part of that magic is the Cello amps and I think you will dearly miss them when they are gone.

That's the life of a reviewer :)

The ART isn't chopped liver either!
 

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