A rare review or a rare misstep?

DaveyF

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Jul 31, 2010
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I'm not sure I'm believing my eyes today.....why, because for the first time in how many moons, I read an article in the latest Absolute Sound by Alan Taffel on the new ARC DAC 8; this article basically slams the piece! Alan claims it is a "rare misstep". I don't think so, I happen to believe that audio is full of "rare misstep's":(. Only problem is that they are rarely publicized, IMHO.
In this article, Alan states that the older ARC DAC 7 is superior in many ways ( particularly those that count) to the newer DAC8.:eek:

Ok, so now we read the manufacturer's rebuttal to the article, wherein someone ( not credited) from ARC proclaims that the newer DAC is a "major advancement that can be favorably compared to any competitive product"...

So, who's right here and who's wrong:confused:

One thing that may be happening here is finally a breath of fresh air, wherein we see a reviewer having the guts to call it as it is.

Shame, there go the ad $$$'s:D
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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I haven't seen the review but vis a vis the advertising comment.

Manufacturers rarely yank advertising to what they see as a professionally written review (yes there's always a few hotheads out there). What does get their panties in a bunch is when manufacturers see the review as being sloppily done, rushed and not well thought out.
 

Andre Marc

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I'm not sure I'm believing my eyes today.....why, because for the first time in how many moons, I read an article in the latest Absolute Sound by Alan Taffel on the new ARC DAC 8; this article basically slams the piece! Alan claims it is a "rare misstep". I don't think so, I happen to believe that audio is full of "rare misstep's":(. Only problem is that they are rarely publicized, IMHO.
In this article, Alan states that the older ARC DAC 7 is superior in many ways ( particularly those that count) to the newer DAC8.:eek:

Ok, so now we read the manufacturer's rebuttal to the article, wherein someone ( not credited) from ARC proclaims that the newer DAC is a "major advancement that can be favorably compared to any competitive product"...

So, who's right here and who's wrong:confused:

One thing that may be happening here is finally a breath of fresh air, wherein we see a reviewer having the guts to call it as it is.

Shame, there go the ad $$$'s:D

Woah, hold on a second....why are you assuming that Taffel's call
is accurate?

What if HE is guilty of a misstep in his review process?
 

FrantzM

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Apr 20, 2010
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I haven't seen the review but vis a vis the advertising comment.

Manufacturers rarely yank advertising to what they see as a professionally written review (yes there's always a few hotheads out there). What does get their panties in a bunch is when manufacturers see the review as being sloppily done, rushed and not well thought out.

Which being a judgment call is subjective.


Also since itis a subjective review , others will simply claim that Taffel was wrong followed by all the IME, YMMV, IMHO, needed to make it more one opinion amongst many, not a fact .. which it certainly is not ...

Just to clear out one thing is the DAC 8 more expensive than the DAC 7?
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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Which being a judgment call is subjective.


Also since itis a subjective review , others will simply claim that Taffel was wrong followed by all the IME, YMMV, IMHO, needed to make it more one opinion amongst many, not a fact .. which it certainly is not ...

Just to clear out one thing is the DAC 8 more expensive than the DAC 7?

Subjective maybe, but there are some basic criteria a review must meet.
 

DaveyF

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Jul 31, 2010
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Woah, hold on a second....why are you assuming that Taffel's call
is accurate?

What if HE is guilty of a misstep in his review process?

That could be, but Alan's review was pretty specific and he did specify that he tried three (3) DAC8's to be sure and on different systems. Same results..
I'm not saying that he is wrong or right, I don't know as I personally haven't heard the DAC8. OTOH, is it so unlikely that a company like ARC can make
a backwards step? Many others have been guilty of this in the past, my point being that most of these pieces seem to still get rave reviews until the poor
unsuspecting public has to out the piece and pay the price.:(
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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That could be, but Alan's review was pretty specific and he did specify that he tried three (3) DAC8's to be sure and on different systems. Same results..
I'm not saying that he is wrong or right, I don't know as I personally haven't heard the DAC8. OTOH, is it so unlikely that a company like ARC can make
a backwards step? Many others have been guilty of this in the past, my point being that most of these pieces seem to still get rave reviews until the poor
unsuspecting public has to out the piece and pay the price.:(

What is a backward step if it is only preference? ... Alan preferred the DAC7 .. Although we, audiophiles seem to systematically prefer the new, improved, more expensive models ...
 

Andre Marc

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That could be, but Alan's review was pretty specific and he did specify that he tried three (3) DAC8's to be sure and on different systems. Same results..
I'm not saying that he is wrong or right, I don't know as I personally haven't heard the DAC8. OTOH, is it so unlikely that a company like ARC can make
a backwards step? Many others have been guilty of this in the past, my point being that most of these pieces seem to still get rave reviews until the poor
unsuspecting public has to out the piece and pay the price.:(

It is certainly possible that ARC may indeed make a product that performs below expectations. To deny that possibility would be silly.

I will have to read the review to comment further.

I will say you seem to be taking a distinct pleasure from the panning of an expensive product :)

As a side note, Mr Taffel, who I agree with on many reviews, recently disappointed me in his recent recommendations on a few HDTracks downloads that are real stinkers.

He was spot on in calling the Benchmark DAC1 a hugely over rated product.
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
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New York City
It is certainly possible that ARC may indeed make a product that performs below expectations. To deny that possibility would be silly.

I will have to read the review to comment further.

I will say you seem to be taking a distinct pleasure from the panning of an expensive product :)

As a side note, Mr Taffel, who I agree with on many reviews, recently disappointed me in his recent recommendations on a few HDTracks downloads that are real stinkers.

He was spot on in calling the Benchmark DAC1 a hugely over rated product.

Of course there's always the possibility that something is wrong with the unit and it's not performing up to snuff. That's something every reviewer needs to be cognizant of if a piece doesn't perform properly. UPS or Fedex isn't beneath destroying anything it ships.
 

Andre Marc

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Of course there's always the possibility that something is wrong with the unit and it's not performing up to snuff. That's something every reviewer needs to be cognizant of if a piece doesn't perform properly. UPS or Fedex isn't beneath destroying anything it ships.

I agree, but he quotes Taffel as having tried three separate units..
So that removes the possibility of a damaged or defective piece.
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
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New York City
I agree, but he quotes Taffel as having tried three separate units..
So that removes the possibility of a damaged or defective piece.

OK, I haven't seen the review. So he's done that part of his homework.
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
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458
La Jolla, Calif USA
It is certainly possible that ARC may indeed make a product that performs below expectations. To deny that possibility would be silly.

I will have to read the review to comment further.

I will say you seem to be taking a distinct pleasure from the panning of an expensive product :)

As a side note, Mr Taffel, who I agree with on many reviews, recently disappointed me in his recent recommendations on a few HDTracks downloads that are real stinkers.

He was spot on in calling the Benchmark DAC1 a hugely over rated product.

Andre, actually I couldn't give a hoot whether the price was $1 or $10K. My original point is that for once, i am seeing a review that isn't the normal 'latest greatest' rave.
Surely, there are numerous products that come out ( not just in audio, but we're talking audio here) that are in fact inferior to their predecessor for numerous reasons.
The question is why do we not see more of these kinds of review?:confused::confused: BTW, please do read this review and the subsequent reply by ARC in the manufacturer's column.
IMO, the ARC response is pretty lame and I'm a fan of ARC.
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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That could be, but Alan's review was pretty specific and he did specify that he tried three (3) DAC8's to be sure and on different systems. Same results..
I'm not saying that he is wrong or right, I don't know as I personally haven't heard the DAC8. OTOH, is it so unlikely that a company like ARC can make
a backwards step?
Many others have been guilty of this in the past, my point being that most of these pieces seem to still get rave reviews until the poor
unsuspecting public has to out the piece and pay the price.:(

Content deleted. Unnecessary personal reference.

Lee
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Andre Marc

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Mar 14, 2012
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Andre, actually I couldn't give a hoot whether the price was $1 or $10K. My original point is that for once, i am seeing a review that isn't the normal 'latest greatest' rave.
Surely, there are numerous products that come out ( not just in audio, but we're talking audio here) that are in fact inferior to their predecessor for numerous reasons.
The question is why do we not see more of these kinds of review?:confused::confused: BTW, please do read this review and the subsequent reply by ARC in the manufacturer's column.
IMO, the ARC response is pretty lame and I'm a fan of ARC.

I am not convinced that "many" audio products are inferior to their predecessor's. I think it is FAR more likely that new editions of familiar products are generally
a lateral step, with either barely discernible improvements or none at all. Or..just cosmetic improvements.

Many audio companies design new iterations of their products for marketing reasons...to have something new to show at CES or to get reviews, or because they
actually had to redesign a product in some way because a parts supplier went under or are no longer making a specific, integral component.

There IS the possibility that a newly designed product is better than its predecessor if the designer really stumbled on to something new..but my feeling this happens
maybe twice a decade.

In the case of digital source components, things really are changing pretty fast.
 

dafos

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2010
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The Ortofon A 90, the company's top of the line cartridge 2 years ago, was slammed by HP in a group review of top end MC carts. However, JV quickly came to the defense of the A 90 and subsequently gave the cartridge top marks. The A 90 was a limited run item and seems to have done well in the market despite HP's negative review. IMO, a negative review is probably better than no review at all since it puts the reviewed product in the limelight.
 

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