Reference 75
- Thread starter jap
- Start date
This looks like my next audition. Hope its at the show next weekend! Could be ideal for my situation..
The guys from Stereo Design at San Diego made me aware of this beauty, too bad it does'nt drive my Ascents! It will become a classic for sure!
Mep- the ref 110 w/ kt120s would be 11.5k new. The 75 at 9k seems in line with prior pricing.
Everything im reading says the 150 is a bigger leap from the 110 than the 110 was to the vt100. Anyone here know?
Simpler circuit probably sounds better, thats why i am potentially enthused.
Everything im reading says the 150 is a bigger leap from the 110 than the 110 was to the vt100. Anyone here know?
Simpler circuit probably sounds better, thats why i am potentially enthused.
It just seems like a lot of money for a 75 watt tube amp. The design work for the REF-75 was bascially done with the REF-150. ARC has been using the same sheet metal for the VT-100 series, The REF-110, the REF-150, and the REF-75. I believe that even the REF-250s are each built into the same chassis. That saves ARC lots of money. That means the boxes and packing material are the same as well.
Keith, in my case also. I also hope that I can hear it at Newport next weekend. Should be a VERY interesting comparison between my D70Mk2 and
the new Ref 75. Only thing I don't like is the price difference, OTOH, my D70 mk 2 doesn't have those pretty meters!
It better. I'm sure the REF-75 sounds great. The power transformer was designed for the KT-120. It has more energy storage than the VS115. It has the Teflon coupling caps. It represents the best 75 watt amp that ARC knows how to build today and that is saying something. I just don't see the value for the price. It’s all relative though. Depending on how deep your pockets are, $9K for a 75 watt tube amp could be chump change.
I do think that ARC continues to improve the sound of their amps. The VT-100 series for example was night and day from their older amps and that would include the D-79. The VS115 that I own now sounds more refined than the VT-100 MKII that I used to own. There should be no comparison to the old D-70 MKII amp and the REF-75 Davey. The power supply in the D-70 is wimpy compared to ARC’s current standards. The quality of the parts used in the REF-75 are much better. The level of refinement and elegance of the sound should be on a whole other level. I hear it with the VS115 compared to older ARC gear I have owned. I can imagine comparing a D-70 to a REF-75 would be like bringing a knife to a gun fight.
I've been researching 100 watt tube amps. They all are at or approaching 10k. I am surprised as well.
But even your VS115 retails for 7k, so the cheapest the Ref 75 even could be is 8k. The ref is fully balanced as well as closed chassis. There are very few 5k stereo tube amps out there anymore-- Cary 120S and VTL ST150 are a a couple, but my guess have nowhere near the parts quality as the ARC Refs.
I also think it speaks volumes that the Ref 75 was designed on Sashas---a difficult load. They should drive most speakers with ease.
But even your VS115 retails for 7k, so the cheapest the Ref 75 even could be is 8k. The ref is fully balanced as well as closed chassis. There are very few 5k stereo tube amps out there anymore-- Cary 120S and VTL ST150 are a a couple, but my guess have nowhere near the parts quality as the ARC Refs.
I also think it speaks volumes that the Ref 75 was designed on Sashas---a difficult load. They should drive most speakers with ease.
Last edited:
Davey- speaking of older design amps, I have a pair of Quad 2 Diamond Jubilees on loan in my system right now---they sound simply stunning. A new pair is all of 3k, although this pair is Peter Walker special edition with gold plating and certificate so runs a bit more. Only 15 watts however which isn't enough for most.
Keith, those Quad amps are impressive indeed. Peter Walker knew what he was doing when he designed that circuit. I think the same can be said for WZJ's design of the circuit in the D70. The question is whether the new Ref75, which I do not believe was designed by WZJ, can compete with it .
Once again, we shouldn't fall into the trap that because something is new and of current design that it necessarily follows that it has to sound better. Audio is littered with gear that a'philes bought into as the "latest and greatest" and found out the hard way that this wasn't the case. For ARC's sake, I certainly hope that the Ref 75 will completely outdo the D70....we shall see.
Our ears will tell us and NOT our reliance on specs and/or hype, just IMHO.
Once again, we shouldn't fall into the trap that because something is new and of current design that it necessarily follows that it has to sound better. Audio is littered with gear that a'philes bought into as the "latest and greatest" and found out the hard way that this wasn't the case. For ARC's sake, I certainly hope that the Ref 75 will completely outdo the D70....we shall see.
Our ears will tell us and NOT our reliance on specs and/or hype, just IMHO.
There is no trap to fall into here. While I agree that "new" doesn't always mean better, I think most people that have had experience owning different ARC amps over the years would agree they have gotten better. I don't think the question will be can the ARC REF-75 compete with the D-70. Rather, the question will be how much further has it surpassed it across the board. I don't expect it to be close. How much better the VS115 amp is compared to the D-70 MKII that I owned isn't close.
Keith, those Quad amps are impressive indeed. Peter Walker knew what he was doing when he designed that circuit. I think the same can be said for WZJ's design of the circuit in the D70. The question is whether the new Ref75, which I do not believe was designed by WZJ, can compete with it .
Once again, we shouldn't fall into the trap that because something is new and of current design that it necessarily follows that it has to sound better. Audio is littered with gear that a'philes bought into as the "latest and greatest" and found out the hard way that this wasn't the case. For ARC's sake, I certainly hope that the Ref 75 will completely outdo the D70....we shall see.
Our ears will tell us and NOT our reliance on specs and/or hype, just IMHO.
DaveyF,
I have owned the D70 in the 80's, sold it as I got a great deal on a pair of used VT150s - some of the more refined Audio Research amplifiers I have listened when used with the Quad ESL63. Much later I could spend a few days with a D70 that was being sold at a cheap price. I overhauled it and was disappointed - the VT150s were really better in every way.
Today I am listening to the REF150 - I am sure it can not be compared with the D70 or the big brother, the D115.
One of the reasons is that at that time the whole system using the D70 was quite different from the ancillaries you are using today. The amplifier was designed to be matched with a turntable playing vinyl and a colorful, but great sounding SP8 or SP10, and ours years were not used to the modern accuracy of digital.
I had a great time listening to the D70 and I am grateful to WZJ. Today I thing that the talented team that followed him at the ARC factory is designing better products, in line with the ARC founder and master expectations.
Just to end the post and create some confusion I will refer to Line 4 of my long list of memorable sound experiences - the chorus of the Proprius recording Cantate Domino being played by Sonus Faber Extremas driven by the Classic 150 monoblocks after two hours warmup. You could guess the toothpaste used by each singer just listening to the recording, as a good friend said at that session!
Similar threads
 | Steve Williams Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator |  | Ron Resnick Site Co-Owner | Administrator |  | Julian (The Fixer) Website Build | Marketing Managersing |